Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

[Lady Fraktor]

Thanks for the book hint, will add to my order!

On the motor, I just got an email from them saying that only the other one I shared is compatible...?

I just looked at the Bresser mount again and niether motor would work with the Bresser mount.
These motors require a external wheel for the motor to drive and the mount does not have this.
Which motor have they recommended?

[mmrmm]

Thanks for the book hint, will add to my order!

On the motor, I just got an email from them saying that only the other one I shared is compatible...?

I just looked at the Bresser mount again and niether motor would work with the Bresser mount.
These motors require a external wheel for the motor to drive and the mount does not have this.
Which motor have they recommended?

https://www.astroshop.pt/motores-e-goto ... ole/p,2427
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/BRE ... oller.html

[Lady Fraktor]

His interest to start is Moon and planets, right after that he states his next step to be nebula viewing.
This telescope is a bit of a all round telescope.
Under excellent skies the telescope could be pushed above 200x.

[mmrmm]

How much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece? 650mm divided by 10mm = 65 magnification. I would not be happy with that amount of magnification on the moon and planets. I need at least 100 magnification. With the 90/900mm focal length refractor I know he go as high as 150 magnification on a average weather day. I can go that high with my 70/900 Vixen refractor. With the 650mm focal length mirror reflector how high could he push the magnification? The OP primary interest is the moon and planets, which require high magnification. Do you think he could get at least 130 magnification barlowing the 10mm? It seems that his mind is set on the 130/650, but I do not want the OP to be disappointed.

Would like to know that as well.

The telescope comes with 3x Barlow so I could get x195 with a 10mm?
Also comes with a 4mm, so x162?

[Refractordude]

His interest to start is Moon and planets, right after that he states his next step to be nebula viewing.
This telescope is a bit of a all round telescope.
Under excellent skies the telescope could be pushed above 200x.

Great, he also has more aperture than 90mm for DSO.

[Lady Fraktor]

Thanks for the book hint, will add to my order!

On the motor, I just got an email from them saying that only the other one I shared is compatible...?

I just looked at the Bresser mount again and niether motor would work with the Bresser mount.
These motors require a external wheel for the motor to drive and the mount does not have this.
Which motor have they recommended?

https://www.astroshop.pt/motores-e-goto ... ole/p,2427
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/BRE ... oller.html

That does not make sense as this motor is the same as the Omegon version.
You can download the instructions for both motors are niether will work with the Bresser mount.

I would just hold off on the motor until the mount arrives and then you can decide which to get.
If the mount has a silver wheel like in this image either motor will work.
If not there are other options.

[Lady Fraktor]

How much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece? 650mm divided by 10mm = 65 magnification. I would not be happy with that amount of magnification on the moon and planets. I need at least 100 magnification. With the 90/900mm focal length refractor I know he go as high as 150 magnification on a average weather day. I can go that high with my 70/900 Vixen refractor. With the 650mm focal length mirror reflector how high could he push the magnification? The OP primary interest is the moon and planets, which require high magnification. Do you think he could get at least 130 magnification barlowing the 10mm? It seems that his mind is set on the 130/650, but I do not want the OP to be disappointed.

Would like to know that as well.

The telescope comes with 3x Barlow so I could get x195 with a 10mm?
Also comes with a 4mm, so x162?

The included 3x barlow are usually very poor quality and best set aside so it is not used
A better quality barlow can be purchased for a reasonable price later.

[mmrmm]

On the link from Bresser website they do state compatibility with EQ3 which is the telescope under consideration.

They also sell it directly and slightly cheaper, but in silver (I prefer the black).

[Lady Fraktor]

I would wait to order it until you can actually see the mount.
If it has that gear wheel then there should be no reason the Omegon motor should not work.

[mmrmm]

Any additional benefit on doing the alignment with this tool alone?
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Acc ... -1-25.html

[notFritzArgelander]

Ok, so I need these 2:

https://www.astroshop.eu/miscellaneous/ ... es/p,59655
https://www.astroshop.eu/collimation-ey ... 25-/p,3925

Now, the motor topic as Lady Fraktor mentioned could be useful, which would be the cheapest option from this list?
https://www.astroshop.eu/mountings-acce ... s/15_55_76

(thank you all for the great help so far!!)

https://www.astroshop.eu/drive-motors/o ... nt/p,21598

This is the one.

Oh, just checked for compatibility and it is not ok...

The one from Bresser which would be compatible is not available right now.
https://www.astroshop.eu/drive-motors/b ... rol/p,2427

:sigh:

Perhaps I order everything else and hold on for the motor for later...

That is surprising. The mount is an EQ3. So I'd be a bit surprised if the Oregon motor was really incompatible. Still, no biggie. Wait some months and maybe check back on the mounts forum.

[SkyHiker]

Any additional benefit on doing the alignment with this tool alone?
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Acc ... -1-25.html

Personally I prefer a laser collimator. They may require an initial collimation itself but that is not hard to do, one-time only. If the scope is totally out of collimation the laser may not hit the secondary, and in that case a Cheshire will still work.

Also, a Cheshire does not need a battery. I like the clarity of the laser collimator and believe it is the most accurate method. But opinions differ, I may have set off a fire storm of reactions!

If you get a laser or a Cheshire you do not need a collimation cap. However to place the secondary (first step) you need a sight tube. There are Cheshires that are a combination of them. Maybe the one in your first link is, see if you can find some more info.

[notFritzArgelander]

How much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece? 650mm divided by 10mm = 65 magnification. I would not be happy with that amount of magnification on the moon and planets. I need at least 100 magnification. With the 90/900mm focal length refractor I know he go as high as 150 magnification on a average weather day. I can go that high with my 70/900 Vixen refractor. With the 650mm focal length mirror reflector how high could he push the magnification? The OP primary interest is the moon and planets, which require high magnification. Do you think he could get at least 130 magnification barlowing the 10mm? It seems that his mind is set on the 130/650, but I do not want the OP to be disappointed.

The logic you are using "how much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece?" is a typical mistake that beginners make. They think that magnification means something.

RANT ALERT
Exit pupil rules! Not magnification!

In this case the scope is an f5 and the exit pupil at which a scope gives maximum resolution and contrast at maximum brightness is a 2mm exit pupil for the average human eye. The f# times the exit pupil gives the focal length, in this case 10mm.

Your Vixen 70mm f12.9 refractor needs an eyepiece that is 25-26mm to get a 2 mm exit pupil for a magnification of 35. Any magnification more than that will show nothing new it just bloats and dims the image. I am sure that with 35x on your Vixen scope I could see everything there is to see. An inexperienced observer might "think" they can see more with greater magnification but if they took care and concentrated on the 2mm exit pupil image rather than just plopping a higher magnification eyepiece into the draw tube they'd just learn how to improve their observing skills.

END OF RANT

Starting off right needs ignoring empty, magnification.

[notFritzArgelander]

Any additional benefit on doing the alignment with this tool alone?
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Acc ... -1-25.html

Personally I prefer a laser collimator. They may require an initial collimation itself but that is not hard to do, one-time only. If the scope is totally out of collimation the laser may not hit the secondary, and in that case a Cheshire will still work.

Also, a Cheshire does not need a battery. I like the clarity of the laser collimator and believe it is the most accurate method. But opinions differ, I may have set off a fire storm of reactions!

If you get a laser or a Cheshire you do not need a collimation cap. However to place the secondary (first step) you need a sight tube. There are Cheshires that are a combination of them. Maybe the one in your first link is, see if you can find some more info.

I doubt there is much controversy. I think redundancy in test methods is a good thing. (Think of the folly testing the Hubble optics with only method.) I would recommend 1) using a collimation cap or a sight tube 2) a Cheshire (if combined with a sight tube omit #1 AND 3) a laser collimator. But I think that for a beginner to get a feel for things the laser can wait.

[Refractordude]

How much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece? 650mm divided by 10mm = 65 magnification. I would not be happy with that amount of magnification on the moon and planets. I need at least 100 magnification. With the 90/900mm focal length refractor I know he go as high as 150 magnification on a average weather day. I can go that high with my 70/900 Vixen refractor. With the 650mm focal length mirror reflector how high could he push the magnification? The OP primary interest is the moon and planets, which require high magnification. Do you think he could get at least 130 magnification barlowing the 10mm? It seems that his mind is set on the 130/650, but I do not want the OP to be disappointed.

The logic you are using "how much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece?" is a typical mistake that beginners make. They think that magnification means something.

RANT ALERT
Exit pupil rules! Not magnification!

In this case the scope is an f5 and the exit pupil at which a scope gives maximum resolution and contrast at maximum brightness is a 2mm exit pupil for the average human eye. The f# times the exit pupil gives the focal length, in this case 10mm.

Your Vixen 70mm f12.9 refractor needs an eyepiece that is 25-26mm to get a 2 mm exit pupil for a magnification of 35. Any magnification more than that will show nothing new it just bloats and dims the image. I am sure that with 35x on your Vixen scope I could see everything there is to see. An inexperienced observer might "think" they can see more with greater magnification but if they took care and concentrated on the 2mm exit pupil image rather than just plopping a higher magnification eyepiece into the draw tube they'd just learn how to improve their observing skills.

END OF RANT

Starting off right needs ignoring empty, magnification.

I am very aware of the importance of exit pupil. The scope I use most on planets is my 120mm f8 between 100 and 120 magnification with a 90mm aperture mask. Bright enough for me. For the moon I need at least 120 magnification. My concern for OP was can the 130/650 scope do better than twice 65 magnification with out a lot of degradation. I did not know, so I asked.

[notFritzArgelander]

How much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece? 650mm divided by 10mm = 65 magnification. I would not be happy with that amount of magnification on the moon and planets. I need at least 100 magnification. With the 90/900mm focal length refractor I know he go as high as 150 magnification on a average weather day. I can go that high with my 70/900 Vixen refractor. With the 650mm focal length mirror reflector how high could he push the magnification? The OP primary interest is the moon and planets, which require high magnification. Do you think he could get at least 130 magnification barlowing the 10mm? It seems that his mind is set on the 130/650, but I do not want the OP to be disappointed.

The logic you are using "how much magnification can he get with a 10mm eyepiece?" is a typical mistake that beginners make. They think that magnification means something.

RANT ALERT
Exit pupil rules! Not magnification!

In this case the scope is an f5 and the exit pupil at which a scope gives maximum resolution and contrast at maximum brightness is a 2mm exit pupil for the average human eye. The f# times the exit pupil gives the focal length, in this case 10mm.

Your Vixen 70mm f12.9 refractor needs an eyepiece that is 25-26mm to get a 2 mm exit pupil for a magnification of 35. Any magnification more than that will show nothing new it just bloats and dims the image. I am sure that with 35x on your Vixen scope I could see everything there is to see. An inexperienced observer might "think" they can see more with greater magnification but if they took care and concentrated on the 2mm exit pupil image rather than just plopping a higher magnification eyepiece into the draw tube they'd just learn how to improve their observing skills.

END OF RANT

Starting off right needs ignoring empty, magnification.

I am very aware of the importance of exit pupil. The scope I use most on planets is my 120mm f8 between 100 and 120 magnification with a 90mm aperture mask. Bright enough for me. For the moon I need at least 120 magnification. My concern for OP was can the 130/650 scope do better than twice 65 magnification with out a lot of degradation. I did not know, so I asked.

On a perfect night the 130/650 with perfect optics and collimation can certainly do smaller exit pupils and higher magnifications. It will max out at 0.5mm exit pupil with 260 magnification with a 2.5mm focal length eyepiece. The transition to high magnification happens at the point where a 2mm exit pupil is achieved. A 10mm fl eyepiece gives the minimum magnification at which all the resolution that can be had is there and can usually be used on average nights. Higher magnification requires that the weather gods bless your efforts.

As I read your post it sounded like a statement, not a question.

The most important eyepieces in any set are a large exit pupil low magnification finder and the critical 2mm exit pupil eyepiece. That's wher the money should go.

Working from lower to higher magnification is a better way to find what the scope and local weather permits.

[Lady Fraktor]

I doubt there is much controversy. I think redundancy in test methods is a good thing. (Think of the folly testing the Hubble optics with only method.) I would recommend 1) using a collimation cap or a sight tube 2) a Cheshire (if combined with a sight tube omit #1 AND 3) a laser collimator. But I think that for a beginner to get a feel for things the laser can wait.

Since we are dealing with a beginner that is purchasing their very first telescope I will always pass over recommending a laser.
Better to learn how the system works and why before introducing other accessories to the mix.

[mmrmm]

Makes sense, thanks!

[Marcelo F.]

Hi,

I got the following shortlist from astroshop for Newton with a tripod.

Bresser Telescópio N 130/650 EQ3 Spica
Orion Telescópio N 114/450 EQ-1 Starblast II AstroTrack
Orion Telescópio N130/650 SpaceProbe EQ-2
Skywatcher Telescópio N 130/650 Explorer-130PS AZ-EQ Avant

May I please get some support in choosing? I believe the 4 are parabolic and not spherical. Is this so important, meaning I am taking the right approach in bringing down the choices...?

All the telescopes are between 250€ and 300€.

I manly want to observe the moon and planets, would love to see those rings...
Of course that afterwards I may get excited by far reach, nebulosas, etc.

Thanks in advanced!!

Since this post is already on the third page and nobody asked the question yet, here goes:

Have you ever looked into the night sky with some good binoculars?

[Marcelo F.]

Hi,

I got the following shortlist from astroshop for Newton with a tripod.

Bresser Telescópio N 130/650 EQ3 Spica
Orion Telescópio N 114/450 EQ-1 Starblast II AstroTrack
Orion Telescópio N130/650 SpaceProbe EQ-2
Skywatcher Telescópio N 130/650 Explorer-130PS AZ-EQ Avant

May I please get some support in choosing? I believe the 4 are parabolic and not spherical. Is this so important, meaning I am taking the right approach in bringing down the choices...?

All the telescopes are between 250€ and 300€.

I manly want to observe the moon and planets, would love to see those rings...
Of course that afterwards I may get excited by far reach, nebulosas, etc.

Thanks in advanced!!

Now that I've noticed that you are Portuguese, buy these books:
https://www.wook.pt/livro/roteiro-do-ce ... eida/36160
https://www.wook.pt/livro/o-pequeno-liv ... ira/103771