Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#61

Post by mmrmm »


Marcelo F. wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:32 am
mmrmm wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:43 pm Hi,

I got the following shortlist from astroshop for Newton with a tripod.

Bresser Telescópio N 130/650 EQ3 Spica
Orion Telescópio N 114/450 EQ-1 Starblast II AstroTrack
Orion Telescópio N130/650 SpaceProbe EQ-2
Skywatcher Telescópio N 130/650 Explorer-130PS AZ-EQ Avant

May I please get some support in choosing? I believe the 4 are parabolic and not spherical. Is this so important, meaning I am taking the right approach in bringing down the choices...?

All the telescopes are between 250€ and 300€.

I manly want to observe the moon and planets, would love to see those rings...
Of course that afterwards I may get excited by far reach, nebulosas, etc.

Thanks in advanced!!
Since this post is already on the third page and nobody asked the question yet, here goes:

Have you ever looked into the night sky with some good binoculars?
Not really, but I do have a decent set of binoculars.
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#62

Post by Star Dad »


Hey nFA - thanks for the explanation on exit pupil. Not sure I've ever seen the math involved. In doing it for my own eyepieces I see that the lens I use most often for magnification and sharp image on Saturn and Jupiter is my 9mm which is really close to the 2mm exit pupil. I can, occasionally use higher powers, but it does have to be an exceptional sky condition. I'm really glad (and lucky) I sunk the most money into the 9mm lens. <whew>!

I dunno, I guess I'm with SkyHiker on the use of laser collimators. I also bought the Howie Glatter TuBlug which I have found to give it that last little tweak. I have a Cheshire but never really liked it. OTOH I also prefer to set up in daylight, and lasers work great for that. And then again 95% of my telesope use is for DSOs. Planets are mostly for outreach events, and people are very happy just to see the ring and great spot even if only at 110X.
"To be good is not enough when you dream of being great"

Orion 203mm/f4.9/1000mm, converted TASCO 114mm/f9/1000mm to steam punk, Meade 114mm/f9/1000, Coronado PST, Orion EQ-G, Ioptron Mini-Tower and iEQ30, Canon 70D, ASI120MM,ASI294MC, Ioptron SkyHunter
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#63

Post by stewe »


Hi mmrrmm,

If extreme portability is not your priority, I would recommend a Dobsonian. Yes, you need a Dob, please read on.

SkyHiker is right about the EQ mount, notFritz is right about the Bird-Jones design. When I started this hobby, I bought a Bird-Jones scope on an EQ mount, so I perfectly agree with their reasoning. EQ mounts are meant for photography, and, let's admit it: you will not do photography with these scopes. You want to have great views. A cheap EQ mount without tracking is a ticket for a lot of frustration. What you want to max out is aperture and as a rule of thumb, the larger the f-ratio (in this price range) the better views the scope will give (the brightness of the image will not change!).

If you want to stay within a 300 EUR budget and want a lot of value for it, I can recommend this Orion XT6:

https://eu.telescope.com/Telescopes/Dob ... goryId=533

Or this GSO one is an even better buy, because this has a higher-quality focuser:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... uszug.html

Both are f/8 parabolic Newtonians, which will give you very nice sharp images of the Moon and the planets. Plus they have a large aperture of 150mm, which will already enable you to enjoy the views of brighter clusters, nebulae and galaxies. With a set of Super Plossl eyepieces, you will have magnificent views!

Welcome to the hobby!
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#64

Post by notFritzArgelander »


stewe wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:41 pm Hi mmrrmm,

If extreme portability is not your priority, I would recommend a Dobsonian. Yes, you need a Dob, please read on.

SkyHiker is right about the EQ mount, notFritz is right about the Bird-Jones design. When I started this hobby, I bought a Bird-Jones scope on an EQ mount, so I perfectly agree with their reasoning. EQ mounts are meant for photography, and, let's admit it: you will not do photography with these scopes. You want to have great views. A cheap EQ mount without tracking is a ticket for a lot of frustration. What you want to max out is aperture and as a rule of thumb, the larger the f-ratio (in this price range) the better views the scope will give (the brightness of the image will not change!).

If you want to stay within a 300 EUR budget and want a lot of value for it, I can recommend this Orion XT6:

https://eu.telescope.com/Telescopes/Dob ... goryId=533

Or this GSO one is an even better buy, because this has a higher-quality focuser:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/pr ... uszug.html

Both are f/8 parabolic Newtonians, which will give you very nice sharp images of the Moon and the planets. Plus they have a large aperture of 150mm, which will already enable you to enjoy the views of brighter clusters, nebulae and galaxies. With a set of Super Plossl eyepieces, you will have magnificent views!

Welcome to the hobby!
These are good recommendations. Whether or not you want a Dob depends on how much you value the convenience of automatic tracking. I have had excellent results manual tracking the Moon and planets with my Dob Z12. I never found manual tracking a problem doing higher power observations of shadow transits of Jupiter moons, for instance. It takes a excellent balance and a light touch with the hand, in other words practice.

You need to decide based on your own fine muscle skills whether you need an EQ mount or a Dob.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#65

Post by Lady Fraktor »


EQ mounts are meant for photography

This statement is not true and I suspect based more on personal preference.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#66

Post by stewe »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:01 pm EQ mounts are meant for photography

This statement is not true and I suspect based more on personal preference.
Ok, they were also a means of motorised tracking for visual, until the digital era arrived and Alt-Az mounts became capable of doing the same thing. An EQ mount is also smaller and easier to carry than a Dobsonian mount. But the main purpose of the EQ mount is providing tracking without a rotating image, i.e., photography.
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#67

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I agree with you up to the ie :)
I sketch and do not want a rotating image, while doing planetary observation/ measurements/ timings I do not want a rotating image, accurately measuring double stars I do not want a rotating image.
For 99% of what I do visually I do not want a rotating image.

I will state that even in manual use I prefer a equatorial to a az/alt mount.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#68

Post by mmrmm »


notFritzArgelander wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:54 pm
These are good recommendations. Whether or not you want a Dob depends on how much you value the convenience of automatic tracking. I have had excellent results manual tracking the Moon and planets with my Dob Z12. I never found manual tracking a problem doing higher power observations of shadow transits of Jupiter moons, for instance. It takes a excellent balance and a light touch with the hand, in other words practice.

You need to decide based on your own fine muscle skills whether you need an EQ mount or a Dob.
Stupid question, I know... a Dob requires a very stable table of some kind to act as a stand right?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#69

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Level ground is required though there are tabletop version for smaller Newtonian usually 100mm to 76mm
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#70

Post by mmrmm »


The difference is then the mount itself and how each type is operated, but everything we discussed so far is still the same right?

For example the one “we” had selected here and this one:
Orion Telescópio Dobson N 150/750 StarBlast 6 DOB

Would give me the same views?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#71

Post by Lady Fraktor »


The 150mm is slightly bigger and will gather more light.
Using a newtonian on an EQ or using it with a dobsonian mount is personal preference.
There is no real advantage for visual observation to have one over the other.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#72

Post by mmrmm »


Ok that is clear now. :)
The EQ mount is used while standing and the DOB would be sitting on a chair?
This reads a bit silly, but from the available pics I cannot really understand how to use which.
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#73

Post by Lady Fraktor »


No not really, the EQ can be used with a chair as well.
You can raise the EQ higher if you want to stand though.

The EQ has extendable legs so can be sized to fit how you want to view, a dobsonian sits on the ground and if you need to raise it up you will have to put blocks under the base plate.
The base plate needs to be reasonably level to operate properly, the legs of an eq mount can be adjusted to level it.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#74

Post by mmrmm »


For the same price of the Bresser we have been talking about, this one is available!

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/or ... ob/p,45034

Would it make (more) sense?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#75

Post by stewe »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:36 pm I agree with you up to the ie :)
I sketch and do not want a rotating image, while doing planetary observation/ measurements/ timings I do not want a rotating image, accurately measuring double stars I do not want a rotating image.
For 99% of what I do visually I do not want a rotating image.

I will state that even in manual use I prefer a equatorial to a az/alt mount.
Thereby, I stand corrected! Sketching is something I have indeed not thought about! Great to know that in today's AP-frenzy there still are people who pursue this art!
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#76

Post by Lady Fraktor »


mmrmm wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:29 pm For the same price of the Bresser we have been talking about, this one is available!

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/or ... ob/p,45034

Would it make (more) sense?
That is a good telescope. Make sense has to come from you since your are the one using it :)
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
The only culture I have is from yogurt
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#77

Post by stewe »


mmrmm wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:29 pm For the same price of the Bresser we have been talking about, this one is available!

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/or ... ob/p,45034

Would it make (more) sense?
It would, indeed. If you are on a budget, put your money into the optics.

I see that you can even reach 200mm aperture (although at f/6) for 300 EUR:

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/om ... r_1_select

This seems like a real bargain: 200mm aperture, 2" Crayford focuser, cooling fan for the primary.
These Dobs seem to have an unbeatable value for the price!
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#78

Post by mmrmm »


I suppose that the parabolic / spherical topic still applies here, but I cannot check that info out for any of these 2 Dobs.
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#79

Post by mmrmm »


Found the info, it is parabolic.

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/om ... r_4_select

I must admit it seems like a very good deal at 299€!

Just wonder about the brand, anyone knows it?
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Re: Beginner with 4 choices, pls help

#80

Post by notFritzArgelander »


mmrmm wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:29 pm For the same price of the Bresser we have been talking about, this one is available!

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/or ... ob/p,45034

Would it make (more) sense?
It makes different sense. You get more aperture with an f ratio (f8) that is good all around for planets and DSOs. You lose the convenience of tracking along only one axis.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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