Buying a new telescope, looking for recommendations

[rpdayton]

This is a copy-paste from astronomyforums, so apologies if posting both places is frowned upon. I had started this epic journey there several years ago, so it seemed natural to continue the quest for a functioning scope there. However, it seems maybe there is more activity here!

In 2017, I bought my son a Celestron 130 SLT; he had shown an interest in astronomy, and I have a lot of memories of me and my dad with a cheap refractor scope in the back yard growing up. I thought it would be nice to have some of that with my son.

Well, it is now a few years later, he is 18 and off to college, and he left the scope here. No surprise though, as we were really only able to go out once and look at Jupiter. The rest of the time was night after night of messing with the scope trying to get it to align so we could actually use it. The only real memories we have is me spending hour upon hour outside getting more and more frustrated with it, countless emails and posts and infinite adjustments and so on.

I tried it again the other night just as a lark; three hours of 'alignment failed' messages reminded me why it now just sits downstairs unused.

A friend is building a dobson box, and all of our discussions about tracking systems and so on has gotten me excited about being able to look at a planet or two myself some time, so I'm thinking about buying a new scope again.

I would like to buy something that will let me point it at a planet, and then it will automatically stay pointed at that planet. I really don't care about reflector size at this point, the 130mm mirror on my celestron seems to okay, but I'm definitely willing to give up size if I can have functionality. I don't need to see any deep sky objects or binary stars or anything fancy, it would just be nice to be able to be able to get it to stay on a planet or maybe a star.

My second requirement is that it must come from a company with good customer service. I pointed out loose screws and mis-assembled hardware, instructions that do not match the actual product, contradictory instructions, and have spent countless hours failing to get it to work, only to be told that all of that is normal, the problem is that I need to keep practicing.

Other than that, I really don't care about brand or country of origin. I just want a decent quality scope that tracks objects in the sky. Hell, I'll even sacrifice quality for functionality.

My experience is limited to when I was a teenager with a no-name refractor scope, so I really don't even have brand recognition going for me in my search. Celestron *seemed* to be a solid name when I got the one I have now, but shame on me for not doing better research first.

I'd like to stay around the same price (~$600 USD) for a new one.

Can anyone here make a recommendation based on actual experience (and not a mfr's claims?)

Thank you.

The original thread trying to get the 130slt to work:
(http://www.astronomyforum.net/celestron ... maybe.html)

[Juno16]

Man, I hate to hear about you and your son’s frustration with the 130 SLT.

I have one and used it quite a bit for many years. I just use it occasionally now. Bit by the AP bug.

Every now and then I would have trouble alining it, but not long after I got it I bought a skyportal wifi Module and connected to SkySafari On my iPad. Completely eliminated the hand controller from the picture.

A lot of folks will recommend a dob, but it sounds like you want a GOTO scope. Also sounds like your expectations are quite within the capabilities of the 130 SLT at least for now. I know that you are tired of messing with that scope, but are there any astronomy clubs nearby? If so, maybe you could bring it to someone who can look at the setup. Just an idea.

[Voyageur]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

AF is no longer being maintained and is overrun with spam bots and assorted trolls of all types. It is not a safe place to be, and most of the active members there have migrated here.

The 130 SLT does get good reviews from reputable sources. Your post here today suggests that you never really got the 130 SLT to work, but I read through the AF thread you linked to, and your final posts there indicated that the scope was working: "However, every time I've taken the scope out, I have had zero problems aligning using either 2- or 3-star alignment methods... The scope, however, is working fine, and we are quite pleased with the performance."

That was over two years ago, so what happened in the meantime to sour you on the scope? If you went on to have more difficulties and ultimately gave up, or simply just didn't like that particular scope, and want something different, I can understand that. Whatever the case, you don't want a repeat of a frustrating experience.

The problem is that with your stated budget, requirements for a goto/tracking mount, and desire to avoid Celestron products, your options are limited. There are some Meade ETX models in your price range, e.g. the ETX 90, at $499. That would be a significant step down in aperture from 130mm. The ETX 125 is $699. I think they are good scopes, but Meade filed for bankruptcy in December 2019, so not sure what kind of customer service to expect.

Orion has the StarSeekeer line of goto reflectors. I have no experience with them. I would imagine that they are not too different from your SLT. The technology may have improved in the past 2 3 years, but who knows? I have never seen a good manual for any of those made in China scopes and you might run into the same frustrations. Perhaps someone else can comment on Orion's customer service.

Your $600 would go further with a non-motorized scope. A Dob, of course, or something like this: https://www.highpointscientific.com/tel ... 71200maz01

I'm sure others will be along to add valuable information.

[Ylem]

Most dobs do not have go-to, but Orion does have them

If I were you I would really consider this

https://www.highpointscientific.com/cel ... cope-11036

I have the 6 and 8 and they are great scopes, can't go wrong

PS if you want to keep it at $600, go with the 4"

[Ylem]

Another thought would be buying a new mount and putting your 130 on it.

[notFritzArgelander]

I have used the Orion Star Seeker III mount and enjoy it. You could just get the mount and put the scope on it. Or you could (if your main interest is planetary lunar viewing) get the newer Star Seeker IV with a Maksutov. The 102mm Mak Cas is very sharp and an excellent planetary and lunar scope.

One thing, though.... In setting up you have to be sure that your mount is level and it helps that you are pointed North. I use a spirit level and my cell phone compass to do this and when I do it never fails to align. Have you tried leveling your mount? If you haven't it might surprise you by working.

Celestron is solid usually. Orion has a good reputation for customer service.

[sdbodin]

Correct me if wrong, but you have to enter time into this during alignment? I have one of the mounts, haven't used for some time, but entering the time can't be done with your wrist Mickey, needs to be within 10 seconds of correct time or the thing will not bring the alignment star into view.
Steve

[Lady Fraktor]

I have been using the SLT mounts since they first arrived and the list of things that can ruin a alignment is quite short.
Choosing a wrong star during 2-3 star alignment, not choosing a bright enough star during sky align or taking to long when doing alignment.
Time should be accurate within a few seconds and if viewing from the same location you just need to input time and date as the coordinates will be the same.
Not enough power for the mount, batteries will not last long and if cool out will power out quicker. Rechargable will not supply enough power.

[FerrariMX5]

From all appearances, you have a great Telescope with really good reviews.
Joining a local astronomy group or just attending any outdoor event should get you the help you need to assure your telescope is operating properly.
Spending the money on a few accessories might make it easier to use (Once you determine that there is not something wrong with YOUR 130 SLT.

Use what you have.
You may find a buyer at one of the events and you can see what others are using to find exactly what you need to make this hobby enjoyable.

I have a friend who bought a $5,000.00 camera (Canon) and hates to even use it because he does not understand how to set it up.
He bought a small point and shoot and he takes the best group photos whenever we have any event (Birthdays, sitting on the deck of the boat, evening dining out.
Everyone asks him to share his photos, which he freely does and enjoys.

So, this may not your best telescope, but it is what you have.
Give it another chance, who knows, you may have been doing just one thing wrong and it has made this less than a fun experience.
I, for one, am glad you have not totally given up.

for now, things may be a little out of focus, but one turn of the knob and your perspective may change in a most exciting way.

Tony

[sdbodin]

Just to put this in the big picture. These goto automatic scopes only work IF you tell the scope electronics where on Earth you are and what time it is. Otherwise it has no reference to locate anything in the 'fixed' heavens from a rotating ball orbiting an average star.

And, if I remember correctly, the Celestron electronics had a nasty habit of running home if the battery failed. The location that you carefully inputted last time out reset itself to Los Angeles.
Steve

[Lady Fraktor]

Skimming through your posting there are a couple of things to do.
Balance the tube as well as possible, do not weight it towards the rear too take up slack this will do nothing other than put strain on the plastic gears.
Take up any backlash using the settings in the hand controller. You will only need to do this once.

Set the tripod up and make it reasonably level.
It does not have to be perfect as the mount does not know where it is until you have done an alignment so perfectly level to start makes no difference with a az/ alt mount.
When you do approaches on alignment stars finish with up and to the right, this is standard for Celestron mounts of all types (alignment marks are for EQ mounts)
I would also suggest not to use Polaris as a alignment star unless you are doing a 3 star alignment.
Use a reticle eyepiece to center stars accurately.

Even with everything perfect these mounts will rarely put an object in center of view but it will normally be in the field of view. You can tweak to center and the mount will track fine from there.

These mounts are very, very simple and overthinking them will just lead to frustration

[rpdayton]

1. Balance the tube... it currently sits forward in the mount far enough that 1inch of the dovetail is not even being clamped on. I can move it up another half inch; i still have the layout lines on it.

2. Backlash with the controller... I wanted to wait and do that after I understood what else was wrong, didn't want to add another variable. Celestron wasn't able to tell me exactly what that setting controlled. In my professional life, anti-backlash settings are expressed in 'degrees of main drive motor rotation between positive preloaded drive train and antiloaded drivetrain.' Celestron was not able to tell me exactly what the units were on their settings, nor a process to know how much to adjust. But again, I've left that setting alone.

3. Level the tripod. I have levelled it using the built-in spirit level, and have also levelled the tube to within 25microns per cm. That made no difference. Oddly, celestron told me that I I made it *too* level, but dismissed the part about how "it still doesn't work." Regardless, I am confident that it is indeed level.

4. Stars move up and to the right for alignment. Yes. I am certain to do this, as consistent load on the drive motors ensures consistent positioning.

5. Not using polaris for aligning. I have never been told this before - this is one more item that the manual I have does not mention that seems like a pretty important omission. Last night polaris was one of the stars I had used, but I had also tries arcturus/vega as well.

6. Reticle eyepiece... I wish I had known all of the additional equipment required for this; I would have bought it all at the beginning! I don't know if I want to sink any more money into this silly thing; I really just want to get rid of it and replace something that doesn't have so many issues.

7. >"Even with everything perfect these mounts will rarely put an object in center of view but it will normally be in the field of view." I've been told this before, but can never get a quantified answer... Last night's one successful alignment was not able to put the moon into the FOV with the 25mmeyepiece, and that is fairly common (30% or so) of the few successes I've had over the years. If it can't even find a target that size, then I really am having trouble believing this scope is going to be able to reliably find something as small or dim as saturn or venus. (Well, I have no trouble believing that based on my experience with it so far lol!)

I appreciate the input, I really do. I just really want to replace this with something that does not take 3 years to become proficient with!

[Bigzmey]

You have mentioned that you have fun memories of you and dad with cheap refractor. Maybe this is the way to go with your son?

It is not that hard to learn how to star hop to your target using manual mount and in the process you will learn the sky. Consider that all the hours went into fighting electronics you could spend enjoying the sky.

When my 10 years old daughter wanted to observe, I got a 90mm refractor on a simple manual AltAz mount. She had it on Moon in 10 min after starting to use the scope, and learn how to find brighter DSOs in no time. We have completed Messier catalog together and got Messier certificate from AF forum. She was so proud showing it to the teachers, friends and family.

[Lady Fraktor]

If you do not mind using an equatorial mount I have recommended this package many times.
With a tracking motor you can do good planetary viewing as well as observe many other objects.
The optics are quite good and the mount is an excellent mid level workhorse mount and will last for years
https://agenaastro.com/celestron-omni-x ... 21088.html

[rpdayton]

Thank you all for your help,
Last night I ran a few tests and found that as long as I position the scope with speed setting 6 or lower, I can rotate the altitude axis and never slip by more than 1.5 degrees.
With the tube mounted and balanced, i can raise it 60 degrees and lower it back again, and it will only be off 1 degree at most. But doing it with a goto move ignores the speed setting, and over 3 tests found it slipped 2, 7, and 12 degrees. There is apparently no feedback loop to ensure accurate positioning.
My theory is that with auto 2 star it is slipping while slewing to the second star, and that is why it always fails alignment. Probably been the problem all along.

Ah, well. Meade is having a sale, and some good ideas to chase down on here.

Thanks again.

[notFritzArgelander]

This sounds like rather bad behavior on the mounts part.....

[Lady Fraktor]

Thank you all for your help,
Last night I ran a few tests and found that as long as I position the scope with speed setting 6 or lower, I can rotate the altitude axis and never slip by more than 1.5 degrees.
With the tube mounted and balanced, i can raise it 60 degrees and lower it back again, and it will only be off 1 degree at most. But doing it with a goto move ignores the speed setting, and over 3 tests found it slipped 2, 7, and 12 degrees. There is apparently no feedback loop to ensure accurate positioning.
My theory is that with auto 2 star it is slipping while slewing to the second star, and that is why it always fails alignment. Probably been the problem all along.

Ah, well. Meade is having a sale, and some good ideas to chase down on here.

Thanks again.

It sounds like the clutch needs to be tightened. It is a 13mm nut behind the screw to tighten the dovetail.
It should be tight enough to hold and require a bit of pressure to make it move.
Remove the two small star head screws to remove the outside ring and then unscrew the dovetail tightening bolt completely to access it.
A little tightening does a lot so be gentle

[rpdayton]

When i first got it, the screws that hold the cover on were not even finger tight, and the pressure screws you are referring to could easily be tightened/ loosened with finger and thumb. At one point early on, i had tightened it up against the split washer spring pretty tight (again, finger and thumb only, i know this is treated like delicate equipment) but I didn't want to over tighten the jamb nut so I just snugged it up a little. It got better for a while, but eventually went back to normal after a month or so.
celestro customer service assured me that being that loose was normal, so i never gave it another thought.
Going back through all of those old emails is really making me think I need to just steer clear of them on my next purchase. I jokingly mentioned elsewhere that I think they also do customer service for lawn mowers and dishwashers... now I'm not so sure that's a joke.
We've already promised this one to a friend's kid... they're picking it up today in fact. Is there a breakaway torque spec on the slip clutch? Maybe I can mess with it after a collimate it this morning.

[Lady Fraktor]

No spec just snug enough for the telescope to stay in place and loose enough that you need a bit of pressure to move the telescope by hand.

[Richard]

100% Gabby, one must remember that this mount is used with many different scopes some small like a 90 Mak and some long like the 80mm Refractor and of course yours the 130 Reflector , they all need different tension so finger tight is generally too loose