Center of Mass

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GCoyote United States of America
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Center of Mass

#1

Post by GCoyote »


Plan: Build this DIY wedge for my ~ 5 lb Mak to sit on.
EQ Wedge DIY.jpg
EQ Wedge DIY.jpg (9.61 KiB) Viewed 11631 times

Qptions
  • a. Just center everything and hope for the best.
  • b. Try to estimate an offset to mounting holes so the center of mass of the scope is roughly over the vertical axis through the tripod.
  • c. Try to include a counter weight attachment point so I can balance it after the fact.
Any thoughts, insights, tips, tricks, chemically induced metaphors are welcome.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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yobbo89 Australia
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Re: Center of Mass

#2

Post by yobbo89 »


i think you're over thinking this wedge idea :lol: 2 kg is nothing . is your mak on an alt az mount ? do you a have link or an image ?
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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yobbo89 Australia
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Re: Center of Mass

#3

Post by yobbo89 »


GCoyote wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:09 pm Plan: Build this DIY wedge for my ~ 5 lb Mak to sit on.

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chemically induced metaphors are welcome.
hahahah
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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Re: Center of Mass

#4

Post by GCoyote »


yobbo89 wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:57 pm i think you're over thinking this wedge idea :lol: 2 kg is nothing . is your mak on an alt az mount ? do you a have link or an image ?
The mount was $25 bucks so I'm not out much if it falls off the deck. I want to practice on this easy one out before I try to mount anything heavier or more complicate.

Because the Mak is so short, the weight is pretty far back.
Cosmos Alt Az Mount sm.jpg
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#5

Post by JayTee »


The design was intended to hold a Celestron SLT or GT Alt-Az mount. If you plan on using a different Alt-Az mount then you may need to adjust the placement of the hole that attaches the wedge to your tripod so your mount's CG is roughly centered over the tripod. Exact positioning is not really needed.
From the picture, you can see that for the SLT/GT you to place the tripod attachment hole 1 1/4" from the hinge line.
Image

Cheers,
JT
BTW, it was my article and my design that you are building. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. jt
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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KathyNS Canada
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Re: Center of Mass

#6

Post by KathyNS »


Mount the scope and mount on the wedge. Then slide a dowel under the base plate of the wedge and move it north or south until the whole contraption balances. Mark the location of the dowel. That is (directly below) the centre of mass.

That's how I balanced my wedged C-90:
C90GrabnGo.JPG
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
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Re: Center of Mass

#7

Post by JayTee »


Thanks for that tip Kathy.

That is exactly how I balance my side-by-side AP set up before it gets mounted into the CEM60 saddle.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Center of Mass

#8

Post by GCoyote »


KathyNS wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:55 pm Mount the scope and mount on the wedge. Then slide a dowel under the base plate of the wedge and move it north or south until the whole contraption balances. Mark the location of the dowel. That is (directly below) the centre of mass.

That's how I balanced my wedged C-90:
Excellent, that's what I need to know!
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#9

Post by GCoyote »


JayTee wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:23 pm The design was intended to hold a Celestron SLT or GT Alt-Az mount. If you plan on using a different Alt-Az mount then you may need to adjust the placement of the hole that attaches the wedge to your tripod so your mount's CG is roughly centered over the tripod. Exact positioning is not really needed.
From the picture, you can see that for the SLT/GT you to place the tripod attachment hole 1 1/4" from the hinge line.
Image

Cheers,
JT
BTW, it was my article and my design that you are building. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. jt
I was wondering why it looked familiar but I got it from AF.net and the rest of post is no longer available. It looks very simple and clean which is why I went with this one. I'll let you know if I have more questions.

Thanks everyone!
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#10

Post by JayTee »


Here's the whole article with build instructions. I pulled from AF over to here, early on.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3129

BTW, I use a turnbuckle where the spings are for holding the correct latitude, the altitude adjustment lock. I found it made this wedge just a bit more solid for heavier loads on the mount.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Center of Mass

#11

Post by GCoyote »


I have a good bit of composite decking material leftover from the last upgrade. It's more stable in the humidity than wood and very easy to work.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#12

Post by JayTee »


Please post pictures as you progress in your build. I am very interested in how things turn out for you.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Center of Mass

#13

Post by GCoyote »


JayTee wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:48 am Please post pictures as you progress in your build. I am very interested in how things turn out for you.

Cheers,
JT

Well I was half way through my last project before the the thought to take some pics hit me. I still have to get the hardware for this job and it would be much better if I could do it out on the patio so I need the weather to not suck so much.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#14

Post by GCoyote »


I've got most of the hardware and started cutting the main bits of wood.

Question: I have an extra 3x finder scope I don't use. Any reason I can't mount it to one edge of the wedge plate to make polar alignment easier?
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#15

Post by KathyNS »


GCoyote wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:46 am I've got most of the hardware and started cutting the main bits of wood.

Question: I have an extra 3x finder scope I don't use. Any reason I can't mount it to one edge of the wedge plate to make polar alignment easier?
Go for it! Good luck with the build.
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
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Re: Center of Mass

#16

Post by GCoyote »


Starting with JT's plans, I scrounged through my extensive collection of spare parts and leftovers.

I substituted composite decking material for the wooden parts:
+ Does not change shape with changes in humidity
+ Does not require protective paint or coating
- Noticeably heavier than typical woods
- Butt ugly
1 Square the Piano Hinge.jpg
In place of the 3/4" dowel for the pivot I use a 1/2" polymer roller I stripped from some defunct appliance. Very strong and stable with little rolling friction.
2 Marked for drilling.jpg
Instead of making attachment points for the dowel, I used 1/2" conduit clamps. Fewer parts, no gluing.
Since my observing locations only vary by about 3 degrees in latitude, I swapped out the 7" 5/16 threaded rod for a 5" hex bolt of the same size.
3 Latitude Adjustment Assembled.jpg
So far so good. Add some spring tension and try setting it for my latitude.
4 Setting for Latitude.jpg
Now to try putting a scope on it ... oops. A little butt heavy.
5 Too Heavy.jpg
So to get the scope upright and get it to balance, I added a 90 degree adapter and a counter-weight.
6 Counterweight Added.jpg
Now to find the balance point. (Thanks for the tip Kathy!)
7 Balance Point.jpg
For the tripod adapter and low friction pad, I used ordinary furniture sliders and the side from some household cleaning product.
8 Tripod Adapter and Anti-Friction Pad.jpg
Last minute addition was a two axis bubble level. (Not shown)

So there you have, "The Mark I"
Last edited by GCoyote on Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#17

Post by GCoyote »


I was cleaning up for the night and happened to look up to see Mars smiling back at me despite a forecast for 46% cloud cover.

So I took the Mark I out on the patio and set it up by flashlight.
Levelling - Approximate
Polar Alignment - Approximate
Results - A little iffy.

Because I did not have a chance to test it out beforehand, I had all sorts of issues.

1. The adapter does not lock to the tripod so my polar alignment isn't locked in either. Need to figure out something for that.

2. The total weight made my one available tripod more than a bit 'bouncy'. It took a number of seconds to damp down after each adjustment.

3. I'm getting too much backlash when I try to track along the RA. Playing with the tension between the mount and the wedge did not eliminate it. I might have to try some different bearing materials and alternative counter weights to get it to track smoothly.

4. It turned out the scope and all attachments blocked the peep hole I'd made for polar alignment. I may have to mount that finder scope after all.

I have much heavier studio tripod but It needs some mods to accept astro gear. That will be another project.

Bottom line: I was having so much fun playing with my astro gear I forgot to finish my beer!
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#18

Post by JayTee »


I have replaced the springs that secure the mount plate at the correct Latitude with a turnbuckle. This is a much more secure setup than relying on high tension springs.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: Center of Mass

#19

Post by GCoyote »


JayTee wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:17 am I have replaced the springs that secure the mount plate at the correct Latitude with a turnbuckle. This is a much more secure setup than relying on high tension springs.

Cheers,
JT
Interesting idea. I'm sure I have one lying around somewhere. That might reduce the wobble a bit in the bargain.

ps. Already ordered some parts for a the heavier tripod.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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Re: Center of Mass

#20

Post by GCoyote »


Still doing upgrades.

I moved the bubble level a bit to make it easier to access the screws, countersunk some screws for a better fit, re-drilled the indentation under the wedge to give the latitude adjustment a more stable seat, and changed the springs for a turnbuckle as suggested.

Picking up some parts tomorrow for more modifications.
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
Gary C

Celestron Astro Master 130mm f5 Newtonian GEM
Meade 114-EQ-DH f7.9 Newtonian w/ manual GEM
Bushnell 90mm f13.9 Catadioptric
Gskyer 80mm f5 Alt/Az refractor
Jason 10x50 Binoculars
Celestron 7x50 Binoculars
Svbony 2.1x42 Binoculars
(And a bunch of stuff I'm still trying to fix or find parts for.)
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