Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

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Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#1

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Two years ago, when I first got my 200 mm/8" Zhummel dobsonian, among the targets I most eagerly wanted to see was the Rossette nebula (aka Caldwell 49). The Rosette is some 5000 light years away from us and not far from a lovely star cluster known as Caldwell 50/NGC 2244 which is the closest easily visible reference point.

I'd seen those wonderful bright red and orange rose-like images, and naively hoped to see a gray version on my dob. Keep in mind, my backyard is under Bortle 5 skies, and at the time, I was strictly star hopping with my 8x50 finder scope, and the stock 30 mm and 9mm eyepieces. Thus, I was never entirely sure I was looking at the right spot, and every attempt ended in frustration not realizing I was looking at it, I just didn't know it.

Back then, on the old forum, J Gardavsky generously advised on how to find it, so I bought a Lumicon OIII filter, but still nothing.

Last night was moonless, transparency was pretty good with many objects easily visible to the naked eye, and best of all, it wasn't freezing cold for once. I took the Z8 out and replaced the finder scope with my homemade Celestron StarSense Explorer phone cradle, dialed in some tricky targets like Messier 110 and M32, and quickly realized it was an excellent moment to try the Rosette once more.

Tapped Caldwell 49 into the SSE app, pushed to the suggested spot, waited a couple of seconds while the app figured out where I was, adjusted slightly, green light on. Looked through my Celestron 32 mm Ploessl, and nothing. Stars with a bland dark gray background. Moved the OTA slightly left and noticed some stars were obstructed by a dull gray smudge. Screwed on the OIII filter which darkened everything almost too much, but the smudge was now more "contrasty" black. Moved the OTA around and sure enough, I finally saw the Rosette. Took the filter off now that I knew what I was looking for, and enjoyed viewing the faint dark gray cloud with a cheap plastic 25 mm Celestron eyepiece which somehow gives some of the best views of the sky with my Z8.

The 25 mm eyepiece, by the way, is the stock eyepiece that came with the Celestron DX102AZ refractor, and oddly, Celestron nowhere says what type it is. Maybe a Kellner? Whatever it is, abundant plastic and all, stars are tack sharp dots on it!

What I wish I'd understood two years ago:
+ You need a good clear night.
+ Low power eyepieces are best. 37.5X and 48x in my case. It's bigger than you think.
+ Filter is nice to have but not need-to-have.
+ Know that the cloud is camouflaged in almost the same dark gray as the background sky.
+ The give away are the missing stars in the background as you slowly pan around. Slowly. Patiently.
+ I had looked at the right spot two years ago, I just didn't know it.

Next step, try with my Celestron 102AZ refractor.

Finally, thank you again J Gardavsky for your good advise two years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosette_Nebula
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#2

Post by KathyNS »


Great report on how to find a faint object. Well done!
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#3

Post by John Baars »


Well done!
It took a long time before I, just like you, realized that I had observed the nebula...without knowing.
Good work. Let this be an example for others!! :Astronomer1:
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#4

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Thank you Jon and Kathy. Come to think of it, and it was two years ago, you provided good advice too when I asked about this in the old forum.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#5

Post by j.gardavsky »


Hello Happy Parrot,

glad to hear that you have been successful with the Rosette Nebula, it is a fascinating object through any telescope, and even through the larger aperture binoculars.
When looking for the Rosette, I try to find its central cluster, I have renamed as the Chicken's Excrement Cluster, sorry ladies in the Forum, but it looks alike to me.

There are fantastic nebulae right up in the skies of the season.

Thank you for your report, and share more reports with us,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#6

Post by John Donne »


Well done Happy Parrot! 👍
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#7

Post by The Happy Parrot »


j.gardavsky wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:37 pm Hello Happy Parrot,

glad to hear that you have been successful with the Rosette Nebula, it is a fascinating object through any telescope, and even through the larger aperture binoculars.
When looking for the Rosette, I try to find its central cluster, I have renamed as the Chicken's Excrement Cluster, sorry ladies in the Forum, but it looks alike to me.

There are fantastic nebulae right up in the skies of the season.

Thank you for your report, and share more reports with us,
JG
Thanks for reading my report JG, I'm honored, and I really do value your advice.

Now, regarding the Chicken Excrement Cluster, how will I ever look for the rose again when I'm trying to see chicken droppings. Just yesterday, user StarField had us looking for an elephant in the Rosette. Where you see chicken droppings, he sees elephants. viewtopic.php?p=142543#p142543
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#8

Post by j.gardavsky »


Hello Happy Parrot,

and thank you for the kind words.

Facts finding: The nickname for the cluster in the Rosette contains the expressive word s**t ,
some of our moderators has changed it into dead Latinum, like "extrement".

Best,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#9

Post by John Baars »


I always call the central cluster "the umbrella cluster" . :angelic-innocent:
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#10

Post by messier 111 »


thx , i will try also soon .
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#11

Post by Bigzmey »


Great job on the Rosette Nebula! Your experience mirrors mine - so big and so dim!

Coincidently I have also resolved it with 25mm EP in my 8" SCT but it was not visible without OIII filter. Later I have managed to see some filamentous structure in it using 5" refractor at low power with OIII filter again.

I should take on JG suggestion and try to find it with binos.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#12

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Bigzmey wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:23 pm Great job on the Rosette Nebula! Your experience mirrors mine - so big and so dim!

Coincidently I have also resolved it with 25mm EP in my 8" SCT but it was not visible without OIII filter. Later I have managed to see some filamentous structure in it using 5" refractor at low power with OIII filter again.

I should take on JG suggestion and try to find it with binos.
Thank you Andrei. Interesting you mention the Lumicon OIII filter. Maybe I should be embarrassed to say this, but I have yet to find it especially useful. Maybe I've been using it on the wrong targets, and I don't have a Hydrogen filter either. In this case, it darkened everything far too much but the nebula was a solid black such that I could make out the contours. So I took it off once I knew I was in the right area. And you are correct, dim is the word as it blends in the background, and is easy to miss if you are panning around too fast. Your experience with the 5 inch refractor makes me want to try the filter on my 102AZ. I suspect the Rosette is better seen with the light bucket from my backyard.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#13

Post by Arctic »


The best view I have had of the Rosette is through my 4-inch refractor (ES AR102) with a UHC filter. At 28X the nebula filled the field and was very detailed. Without the filter, the nebula was still visible, but much more subdued. Bortle 3 conditions.
Gordon
Scopes: Meade LX10 8" SCT, Explore Scientific AR102 Refractor on ES Twilight 1 Mount, Oberwerks 15X70 Binos, Nikon Action Extreme 10X50 Binos.
Eyepieces: ES 68* 24mm, ES 68* 20mm, ES 82* 11mm, ES 82* 8.8mm
Observing: Messier Objects--110/110, H1 Objects-- 400/400. Hundreds of additional NGC Objects. Significant Comets: Kohoutek, West, Halley, Hyakatake, Hale-Bopp, McNair, Neowise. Transits of Mercury and Venus.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#14

Post by Bigzmey »


The Happy Parrot wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:24 pm
Bigzmey wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:23 pm Great job on the Rosette Nebula! Your experience mirrors mine - so big and so dim!

Coincidently I have also resolved it with 25mm EP in my 8" SCT but it was not visible without OIII filter. Later I have managed to see some filamentous structure in it using 5" refractor at low power with OIII filter again.

I should take on JG suggestion and try to find it with binos.
Thank you Andrei. Interesting you mention the Lumicon OIII filter. Maybe I should be embarrassed to say this, but I have yet to find it especially useful. Maybe I've been using it on the wrong targets, and I don't have a Hydrogen filter either. In this case, it darkened everything far too much but the nebula was a solid black such that I could make out the contours. So I took it off once I knew I was in the right area. And you are correct, dim is the word as it blends in the background, and is easy to miss if you are panning around too fast. Your experience with the 5 inch refractor makes me want to try the filter on my 102AZ. I suspect the Rosette is better seen with the light bucket from my backyard.
I find nebula filters very useful, most nebulae I have seen (emission, supernova remnant and planetary) were hard to resolve without filters.

A few consideraitons:

The darker your skies the less effective are the filters. At my Bortle 6 home location the filters always help. From my Bortle 4 dark site results are mixed. Brighter nebulae look better without filters, but I still need filters for challenging target like Hoursehead or Bernard's Loop.

You need to find optimal exit pupil to use for each target with filter. For most large faint emission nebulae that would be 5-7mm, for planetary 1-2mm, etc.

Finally, you need to use good quality filter. They are pricy, but that's where you don't want to cut the cost. With EPs $40 32mm GSO Plossl is quite usable and will deliver 90% of the performance of $150 TV Plossl. With narrowband filters it is not so. By using narrowband filter you already cutting off most of visible light. With premium filter there is over 90% transmission in the passband. Budget filter can transmit as low as 60%. On top of that the shape of passband will not be rectangular, it will leak some unwanted bands on side. In addition budget filters will reflect and scatter even more light. So, people often try budget filters, see only darkening and loss of contrast and dismiss filters all together.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
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Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#15

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Thanks Andrei. I'm going to read up on filters. I appreciate the tips.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#16

Post by The Happy Parrot »


Arctic wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:00 pm The best view I have had of the Rosette is through my 4-inch refractor (ES AR102) with a UHC filter. At 28X the nebula filled the field and was very detailed. Without the filter, the nebula was still visible, but much more subdued. Bortle 3 conditions.
Thanks, Arctic. Very interesting! A UHC filter may be next on my wishlist.
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#17

Post by Makuser »


Hello Happy Parrot. Wow, I almost missed this great report. How many times have I passed by something even with the 12" Dob and didn't realize there was something there before going to a higher magnification. j.gardavsky (JG), KT4HX (Alan), John Baars (John), and Bigzmey (Andrey) are masters at pulling out the faint fuzzies. And of course, our skies and seeing conditions also play a limiting part as well. Thanks for this excellent report on how to find these objects Happy Parrot, and the very best of regards.
Marshall
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#18

Post by helicon »


Thanks for the great report The Happy Parrot! Your report is today's winner (4-21-2021) of the Visual Report of the Day Award! Congratulations...

app.php/article/4-21-2021-tss-visual-report-of-the-day
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#19

Post by Gordon »


A great report THP!
Congratulations on the award!
Gordon
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Re: Backyard Rosette - a visual beginners challenge

#20

Post by John Baars »


Congratulations on the Award!
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
Amateur astronomer since 1970.
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