nFA observing report September 5

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nFA observing report September 5

#1

Post by notFritzArgelander »


The primary purpose of this session was to evaluate the Starbase series of eyepieces. July 11-12, 2020 had shown that the series had promise for DSOs. This session was to evaluate planetary performance again in comparison with the KK Orthoscopics. There were questions about ghosting. The KKs are fully multicoated and the Starbase series are only fully coated.

Sorry it has taken so long to follow up. Health issues and domestic matter (“Where are the photo adapters?”) have absorbed time from fun projects. I’m feeling better now with revised medication for a thyroid issue and my quest to find or buy the missing bits is nearly over.

The main target would be Jupiter with Saturn, Mars and the Moon time permitting. This constrained the choice of scope implicitly. The least obstructed portion of the yard to the South is really just a narrow passageway and the only set up that would fit in that confined area is the VMC110L mounted on the Orion Star Seeker III. It was equipped as usual with the Orion EZ Finder red dot and the Meade 25mm HD60 with 0.5x reducer on the side port of the flip mirror.

The eyepieces were the following selections from the KK Abbe/Orthoscopic set to match the focal lengths from the Starbase series.

KK f(mm) AFOV(deg) Mag TFOV(deg) ep(mm)
KK 25 42 41 1.02 2.66
KK 18 42 57 0.87 1.91
KK 12.5 42 83 0.51 1.33
KK 9 42 115 0.36 0.96
KK 6 42 172 0.24 0.64
For the Starbase series (KE is Kellner, OR is Plossl)
KE 25 45 41 1.09 2.66
KE 20 45 52 0.87 2.13
OR 18 45 57 0.78 1.91
OR 14 45 74 0.61 1.49
OR 9 45 115 0.39 0.96
OR 6 45 172 0.26 0.64

The Meade 25mm HD 60 with 0.5x reducer has a 60 degree AFOV providing M = 21, a TFOV of 2.9 and an exit pupil of 5.32.

The predicted conditions were clear, transparent skies with average (3/5) seeing. Set up complete at 9pm.

First look at Jupiter was a mess. It looked to me like there were tube currents, so I took a pleasant look at M11 for 15 minutes. The Meade EP provided a nice view of the field. Returning to Jupiter the tube current problem was gone but it was clear that the seeing was on the poorer side of average. Likely this is due to local conditions as there were structures in the direction of Jupiter.

The procedure I followed was to start with the long fl KK and compare with the nearest Starbase and then proceed down to shorter fls. I checked for scattered light and ghosting by sweeping east and west through the FOV.

Jupiter showed several bands and east to west Ganymede, Europa, Io (which disappeared later in the evening) the Big Guy himself and on the west, Callisto. 2-4 bands were visible. The KE 25 and 20 were indistinguishable in performance from the KK25 and KK18. Contrast was the same and all ghosting and scattered light problems were traceable to my own eyes. This was a pleasant surprise. The surprises kept coming with the OR18 and OR14 which were equal to the KK18 and and KK12.5. The first difference appeared with the OR9. Io disappeared. It was close to doing so anyway so I popped the KK9 back in and it was still there. So the KK9 has a performance edge over the Starbase OR9. The results on the KK6 versus OR6 are not conclusive since the atmosphere was having none of a 0.64 mm exit pupil. The mess was the same though!

I turned my attention to Saturn as Jupiter was getting deeper into the soup. It was pleasant. Seeing was not good enough to make a clean Cassini division. However I often get an optical illusion of Saturn being more of a sphere than a disk and I enjoyed that FWIW.

By this time, it was late enough that the Moon and Mars were visible in the East. I turned to Mars first and could detect surface features. I found I had to hold my eye just so to see contrast since the Moon was washing things out pretty well.

I ran through the same comparison of EP series on the Moon in the same way as Jupiter. This was going to be the acid test for ghosting and stray light. Centering a region on the terminator I ran through my sequence. In this case I found I could get ghost images from the illuminated side on the dark side of the terminator. They were mild in the Starbase OR14 and OR9 but they were absent from the KK12.5 and KK9. So, here is where the advantage of the KKs being fully multicoated makes itself felt. The ghost images were very mild and not objectionable.

I’m still pleased with the Starbase series. For DSOs they are advantageous, and they are only a little behind the KKs on planetary and lunar viewing. They are good inexpensive eyepieces and great performers for the price.

So I packed it in for the evening….
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#2

Post by helicon »


Great report on the oculars notFritz. I'm glad that the Starbase series offers value and performance.
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#3

Post by Thefatkitty »


Nice report on that and glad you got out some. Hope you're feeling better as well :D

First, you have to know I hold yourself and Gabrielle completely responsible for my purchasing the KK's from 25-9mm. I don't dare tell my other half that, but it was the nicest thing you two could have done for me! And being my favourite all-round eyepiece I have two of the 18mm's. Why? Well, just in case of, and sometimes I have two fracs out... I was going to get the 4-7mm of the same series, but the conditions here have to be really great to get a good view from the 9mm, which is not a lot of the time it seems.

I like my ES's, but I prefer the KK's for their color and sharpness to the edge, even if they have a smaller FOV. A worthy trade-off in my opinion. These Starbase eyepieces and your review of them intrigues me for sure! When I did a search and found them on astronomics.com I couldn't believe the price either!! That little for a Takahashi product? Wow.

The 14-25mm's are what I'd be looking at, especially with your report on them. I'm curious though, I noticed the 20mm is offered both as a Kellner and as an Ortho. I also noticed as well that you have the Kellner version. Any reason for the preference?

Nicely done report and review, nFA; I thank you for that though my wallet may not :lol: Hope you continue to feel better as well and things get back on track for you!

All the best,
Mark

"The Hankmeister" Celestron 8SE, orange tube Vixen made C80, CG4, AZ-EQ5 and SolarQuest mounts.
Too much Towa glass/mirrors.

Solar:
H/A - PST stage 2 mod with a Baader 90mm ERF on a Celestron XLT 102 (thanks Mike!)
Ca-K - W/O 61mm, Antares 1.6 barlow, Baader 3.8 OD and Ca-K filters with a ZWO ASI174mm.
W/L - C80-HD with Baader 5.0 & 3.8 Solar film, Solar Continuum 7.5nm and UV/IR filters with a Canon EOS 550D.
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#4

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Thefatkitty wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:09 am Nice report on that and glad you got out some. Hope you're feeling better as well :D
I am continuing to feel better, thanks!
First, you have to know I hold yourself and Gabrielle completely responsible for my purchasing the KK's from 25-9mm. I don't dare tell my other half that, but it was the nicest thing you two could have done for me! And being my favourite all-round eyepiece I have two of the 18mm's. Why? Well, just in case of, and sometimes I have two fracs out... I was going to get the 4-7mm of the same series, but the conditions here have to be really great to get a good view from the 9mm, which is not a lot of the time it seems.
I'm glad that the KKs have worked out well for you!
I like my ES's, but I prefer the KK's for their color and sharpness to the edge, even if they have a smaller FOV. A worthy trade-off in my opinion. These Starbase eyepieces and your review of them intrigues me for sure! When I did a search and found them on astronomics.com I couldn't believe the price either!! That little for a Takahashi product? Wow.
They are a great value, that's for sure.
The 14-25mm's are what I'd be looking at, especially with your report on them. I'm curious though, I noticed the 20mm is offered both as a Kellner and as an Ortho. I also noticed as well that you have the Kellner version. Any reason for the preference?
Yes. I was looking for less glass and just a tad more light throughput so the 3 elements of a Kellner should do better than the 4 elements of a Plossl.
Nicely done report and review, nFA; I thank you for that though my wallet may not :lol: Hope you continue to feel better as well and things get back on track for you!

All the best,
Thanks in turn and hope you are doing well too.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#5

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A nice review nFA, it is good to hear that the Starbase eyepieces perform quite well.
I will have to set some money aside in the future for a set. :)

Great to hear you are doing better as well!
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#6

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:25 am A nice review nFA, it is good to hear that the Starbase eyepieces perform quite well.
I will have to set some money aside in the future for a set. :)

Great to hear you are doing better as well!
They are very good performers especially considering price. I'm not sure about their being the second cuming of Clave' Plossls though since I've never looked through a Clave'.

It's amazing what an adjustment to one's thyroid medication can do. Also I had an asymptomatic sinus infection that was only found when I visited the Dr. Antibiotics are a good reason to avoid time travel into the past. :)
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#7

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Continue to get better, nobody wants to go back before mouldy bread ;)
Off to work for a sunny but windy day. At least it has stopped raining.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#8

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Thefatkitty wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:09 am That little for a Takahashi product?
Starbase is actually a seperate company that has been in existance for a while.
Starbase has a partnership with Takahashi to supply entry level quality products.
The Starbase 80mm refractor is a good example for the beginner and when they want to advance to an apochromat you unscrew the 80mm lens cell and screw on a Takahashi 76mm triplet.
Starbase makes the telescope/ eyepieces and sells them through the various Takahashi francises but they are not Takahasi products.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#9

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:26 pm
Thefatkitty wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:09 am That little for a Takahashi product?
Starbase is actually a seperate company that has been in existance for a while.
Starbase has a partnership with Takahashi to supply entry level quality products.
The Starbase 80mm refractor is a good example for the beginner and when they want to advance to an apochromat you unscrew the 80mm lens cell and screw on a Takahashi 76mm triplet.
Starbase makes the telescope/ eyepieces and sells them through the various Takahashi francises but they are not Takahasi products.
This is true. Starbase is a different concern from Takahashi but they are in a partnership. To make an automotive comparison the relationship between Acura and Honda is much closer than Takahashi and Starbase.

I was unaware that the Starbase 80 would accept a Takahashi 76 apo objective. It plants evil temptations about a potential upgrade path for the grandson.

I'm confused, though... the Tak 76 objectives are all fluorite doublets right? Equivalent and maybe better in performance to a glass apo triplet. Or am I missing one of the Tak offerings?
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#10

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A long shift and was tired. The Takahashi is a fluorite doublet not a triplet :)
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#11

Post by John Baars »


Good to hear you are feeling a bit better now.
Thanks for the excellent comparison!
If I had doubts about buying KK or Starbase, I 'd sure know which one to turn to right now.
Refractors in frequency of use : *SW Evostar 120ED F/7.5 (all round ), * Vixen 102ED F/9 (vintage), both on Vixen GPDX.
GrabnGo on Alt/AZ : *SW Startravel 102 F/5 refractor( widefield, Sun, push-to), *OMC140 Maksutov F/14.3 ( planets).
Most used Eyepieces: *Panoptic 24, *Morpheus 14, *Leica ASPH zoom, *Zeiss barlow, *Pentax XO5.
Commonly used bino's : *Jena 10X50 , * Canon 10X30 IS, *Swarovski Habicht 7X42, * Celestron 15X70, *Kasai 2.3X40
Rijswijk Public Observatory: * Astro-Physics Starfire 130 f/8, * 6 inch Newton, * C9.25, * Meade 14 inch LX600 ACF, *Lunt.
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#12

Post by Makuser »


Hello nFA. A very nice comparison and evaluation of the eyepieces. Thanks for your well written and informative report nFA, and I am glad that you are feeling better now.
Marshall
Sky-Watcher 90mm f/13.8 Maksutov-Cassegrain on motorized Multimount
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Celestron Omni XLT150R f/5 Refractor on CG4 mount with dual axis drives.
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#13

Post by Bigzmey »


Nice shootout nFA! Starbase series sounds like good alternative to some other EP lines in the same price range.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#14

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Bigzmey wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:49 pm Nice shootout nFA! Starbase series sounds like good alternative to some other EP lines in the same price range.
Yes, they can definitely be recommended as a good value performer. They are also compact.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
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Re: nFA observing report September 5

#15

Post by terrynak »


Very nice review of the Starbase series of EPs nFA! A brand to consider for any future EP purchases.
Scopes: Reflectors, refractors, and 1 catadioptric. Ranging in aperture from 50mm to 150mm.
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