nFA observing report July 11-12

[notFritzArgelander]

I had some discussions about a new line of eyepieces about which some buzz exists which I find controversial in its details. (I’ll deal with that in a separate thread.) So I ordered 3 items to try from the following selections.

https://www.landseaskyco.com/astronomy/ ... =0&max=900

The controversy (in brief) is whether those labeled as Orthoscopic are actually a remake of the Clve’ Plossl. But more on that later. For the purpose of this report suffice it to say that I received the Starbase KE 25mm, KE 20mm, and Or 18mm on July 9 without punishment from the cloud deities! On the 10th I enjoyed Comet Neowise and then had this observing session. I didn’t even have to offer a Nagler as a propitiating burnt offering!

The forecast was for clear skies with above average transparency and average seeing (3/5) becoming poor for a couple hours around midnight. Usually average seeing bumps me down to under 5” aperture but I wanted to run through the same list of targets as the recent (June 23-24) session but with larger aperture. Poor seeing should affect the faint and the fuzzy less so I chose for this evenings outing:

VMC200L on the old reliable Celestron Advanced (CG5) mount and Zhumell RACI 8x50 finder and the SV 2” diagonal.

I wanted to use the TV Panoptic 41mm eyepiece as finder eyepiece but had trouble balancing this on the Celestron mount. It was possible on the Orion Sirius mount so I bailed on the Pan and instead chose as eyepieces:

Takahashi 50mm LE AFOV 49 deg TFOV 1.26 deg 5.13mm pupil 39x
GSO SV 42mm AFOV 65 deg TFOV 1.40 deg 4.31mm pupil 46x
KK Ortho 25mm AFOV 42 deg TFOV 0.54 deg 2.56mm pupil 78x
KK Ortho 18mm AFOV 42 deg TFOV 0.39 deg 1.85mm pupil 108x

Then there are the new guys from Starbase:

KE 25 25mm AFOV 45 deg TFOV 0.58 deg 2.56mm pupil 78x
KE 20 20mm AFOV 45 deg TFOV 0.46 deg 2.05mm pupil 98x
OR 18 18mm AFOV 45 deg TFOV 0.42 deg 1.85mm pupil 108x

After performing a 2 star align and adding 2 calibration stars, I began the run. The neighbor dogs were well behaved. I’ve heard that the now absent Hound is going to be replaced with a different animal. Unfortunately, the humans in the neighborhood provided entertainment.

As twilight ended I noticed that the sky was not as dark as on the June outing. The winds were a little highish and I think there might have been some fine dust aloft. So more background glow from city lights.
I also try to avoid Saturday night sessions since, well humans on Saturday night: lol:

Noting that conditions might not be as good as advertised, I pressed ahead. I casually looked for the comet but saw nothing.

My first acquisition was M51. I was intent on getting some quality time on a familiar DSO to do comparison with the performance on the Edge 9.25. I acquired it easily in the Tak LE 50, smoothly shifted to GSO SV 42 and then did detailed comparisons between the Starbase KE 25 versus the KK 25, and the Starbase OR 18 versus the KK 18. I sandwiched the Starbase KE 20mm in between the 25 and 18 pairs.

In comparison with the observations June 23-24 observations with the TS 102mm ED f11, the spiral arms were more prominent with both apparent. This even though the atmosphere was not as cooperative. Although the seeing was poorer (3/5) compared to the previous (4/5) there were some moments where the seeing improved. In particular there were moments when the the smooth faint arms clarified and bright condensations in the arms were distinguishable from the background. This was an exceptionally beautiful effect.

Comparing the KK Orthos to the Starbase oculars, there is a difference in the coatings, which accounts for the difference in costs. The KK Orthos are multicoated (like the Baader BCOs). This means that all air glass interfaces have multiple coatings to provide good transmission of light. There is no coating in the interior of doublets or triplets, if any, in the design. The Starbase oculars are described (reading the barrel) as only fully coated. This implies a single coating is applied to every interface including the internal interfaces within grouped elements. Fully multicoated is the most expensive option.

I found that comparing the 25mm and 18mm pairs that the Starbase oculars provided better performance on the spiral arms during moments of better seeing. The condensations in the spiral arm popped better and more persistently. The Starbase KE 20 was consistent with this.

I’m impressed.

At this point it was getting on toward 11 pm when the seeing was supposed to deteriorate. I turned to Izar and Muphrid and the seeing was definitely on the poorer side of poor as Izar would only split intermittently, not continually as the previous session with the TS 102ED.

Next I slewed to M57 where I was gratified to see a pale straw color that was available in focal lengths at or shorter than 25mm. No difference in performance between the KK and Starbase oculars was noted.

Next to M13 where I used the GSO SV 42 to find it. I went immediately to the 18mm eyepieces which showed no performance differences. M13 was completely and unambiguously resolved. It was a beautiful sight as always and did not seem to suffer for the deteriorating seeing.

Next to my guilty pleasure M29 which I appreciated in the Tak 50 and GSO 42 alone.

The previous session with the TS 102ED I tried for the galaxy NGC 6764 and naturally failed. I almost talked myself into finding it this time. But on further reflection and consideration of my notes I think I was pulling a Messier and mistook the star HD234806 the galaxy. Oh, well. I’ll try again.

Using only the Tak 50 and GSO 42 I looked at the NA Nebula, NGC7000. It was definitely more difficult despite the larger aperture attributable to the poorer than expected transparency. I also tried the 25mm eyepieces on the Gulf of Mexico region and saw no differences.

The Tak 50 and GSO 42 were used for M39 a lovely arrowhead of an open cluster.

The Blinking Planetary, NGC 6826, was next on the list. It blinked. However I have to say that the view was not quite as crisp as in the TS 102ED f11. The ansae and the centeral star were not as sharply delineated. The Starbase oculars showed a definite advantage with respect to the KK Orthos on this object.

I was starting to send the scope to the Cocoon Nebula, IC 5146 and just getting set to put eye to ocular when a brilliant flash of light flooded my observing spot. Apparently a party was ending at a house across the remaining half block and the street behind me and folks were packing up to depart. I turned to face them since this was going on longer than necessary and hoped to convey the idea that I was inconvenienced. Once they left, I observed the Cocoon, watching while my night vision returned. So, I spent a good bit of time on it.

Not long after the second silly human trick happened. I was on the Crescent Nebula, NGC 6888, when I heard a bit of a domestic disturbance nearby. An individual, likely plotzed, was one house to the South on the opposite side of the block was demanding her companion call 911 to shut me down! Her companion explained I was just out there with my equipment looking at the sky and refused. She responded to him, “But I don’t want him there!” I restrained myself from saying “I don’t want to hear your drunken ravings, either.”

In any event the Crescent was definitely best in the GSO SV 42 mm with no difference in the shorter focal lengths. It just became harder to see.

Before my protector quit and gave in to demands that the polizei stop my nefarious activities I decided to check color contrast between the Starbase and KK oculars on Albireo. Both were quite nice and equal I would say. They definitely showed better color differences, more saturation, than the Tak 50 And GSO SV. With that I packed it it.

I’m becoming a fan of the Starbase Oculars. I’m preparing a separate post on them and plan to try them on lunar-planetary ASAP.

[John Baars]

Thanks for your comparison! Good to hear the Starbase eyepieces outperform the KK's on deepsky. I am curious after their performance on planets. Ghosting might come up? I once had a Clavé. It surely outperformed other plössls.

This was sure an evening with all kind of human obstacles. Once I had the same kind of nonsense in my neigborhood. When became known that I had prevented and solved a number of burglaries by calling the police ( The burglars had not seen me observing) , troubles vanished like snow in the sun. In fact people became glad that I was out there..

[notFritzArgelander]

Thanks for your comparison! Good to hear the Starbase eyepieces outperform the KK's on deepsky. I am curious after their performance on planets. Ghosting might come up? I once had a Clavé. It surely outperformed other plössls.

This was sure an evening with all kind of human obstacles. Once I had the same kind of nonsense in my neigborhood. When became known that I had prevented and solved a number of burglaries by calling the police ( The burglars had not seen me observing) , troubles vanished like snow in the sun. In fact people became glad that I was out there..

Thank you in turn for your appreciation. I've ordered more of the Starbase eyepieces to fill out the shorter focal lengths. I'm planning that the next outing will be dedicated to planetary targets. I have to set up in a very different location on the property for southern objects. As usual, it's a tree that compels this. Otherwise I was certainly up late enough for Jupiter and Saturn.

I understand that the Starbase "Orthoscopic" eyepieces are being compared with Clavé Plössls. They may well be inspired by Clavé Plössls but their specifications differ. The AFOV in the Starbase line is 45 degrees compared to Clavé Plössls at 51 degrees. Similarly, the eye relief in the Starbase line is 70% of the focal length compared to 50% for Clavé Plössls. I suspect that they might have updated the selection of glass materials to give greater eye relief.

Anyway that is a foretaste of another post on the eyepieces.

[helicon]

Thanks for sharing your perception of the oculars notFritz. Also, you had a fine session and it sounds like a particularly good view of M51 and NGC 5195.

[KingNothing13]

Sounds like you have quite the "wild" life in your neck of the woods, nFA - at least you still had a great night of observing, despite the humans.

I do sometimes wonder what my direct neighbor thinks when I am out. Not that I really care all that much one-way or the other.

[notFritzArgelander]

Thanks for sharing your perception of the oculars notFritz. Also, you had a fine session and it sounds like a particularly good view of M51 and NGC 5195.

Yes, it was a good view of that pair of interacting galaxies. I’m missing the darker skies I had in rural VA though. I’m dithering about how much of a role that’s playing as I consider Edge versus VMC questions.

[notFritzArgelander]

Sounds like you have quite the "wild" life in your neck of the woods, nFA - at least you still had a great night of observing, despite the humans.

I do sometimes wonder what my direct neighbor thinks when I am out. Not that I really care all that much one-way or the other.

As long as they don’t actually call the Stadtspolizei down on me I’ll just do what I do and hope that they find a good rehab solution.

[Bigzmey]

Nice session nFA! How do you feel about VMC200L so far?

[Lady Fraktor]

A interesting outcome with the new okulars nFA.
One person on the other site has taken the Plossl (Ortho) apart and says they are asymmetrical doublets, it would be interesting to know what glasses they are using as Starbase schematic shows them as using 3 different types of glass as per the Zeiss patent of 1938/39.

I wonder if they have used different glass types to increase eye relief as you speculate and mask the FOV to 45° to control edge aberrations?

Brandon eyepieces do an excellent job with high quality polish and a single coating on the eye lens only.

Hopefully your skies will hold or get better to get some more viewing in.

[Juno16]

I very much enjoyed your report nFA!

Sounds like a wonderful night under the beautiful skies with your finery.

The neighborhood animals are much better behaved than humans! Even though I have some nearby party animals, I am fortunate that the only irritation they create is noise. They also happen to be the polizei!

Thanks for the read

[notFritzArgelander]

A interesting outcome with the new okulars nFA.
One person on the other site has taken the Plossl (Ortho) apart and says they are asymmetrical doublets, it would be interesting to know what glasses they are using as Starbase schematic shows them as using 3 different types of glass as per the Zeiss patent of 1938/39.

It would be interesting to know if they used the same three types of glass as the Zeiss patent, of course. I'll have to take a look at that thread again.

I wonder if they have used different glass types to increase eye relief as you speculate and mask the FOV to 45° to control edge aberrations?

There is also the question of whether its different glass types AND stops or whether that's an OR.

Brandon eyepieces do an excellent job with high quality polish and a single coating on the eye lens only.

Yes, overall performance is not as simple as counting.

Hopefully your skies will hold or get better to get some more viewing in.

Tonight the forecast is for poor seeing (2/5) so I think I'll forego. Tomorrow the seeing is forecast to be solidly average.

[notFritzArgelander]

Nice session nFA! How do you feel about VMC200L so far?

I'm liking it and it's a keeper. I'm definitely liking it better than the plain 9.25 SCT. I'm still on the fence about whether I like it better than the 9.25 Edge aplanat. The comparison is difficult since:

1) I'm relying on memory
2) skies were better (darker) in VA when I had the Edge
3) my surroundings didn't have as much potential hazards for night vision.

More work to do to so there is naught to do but

[notFritzArgelander]

I very much enjoyed your report nFA!

Sounds like a wonderful night under the beautiful skies with your finery.

The neighborhood animals are much better behaved than humans! Even though I have some nearby party animals, I am fortunate that the only irritation they create is noise. They also happen to be the polizei!

Thanks for the read

Glad you enjoyed it.

[Makuser]

Hi nFA. A nice report and some information on those eyepieces. A nice haul with M13, M57, M51 and NGC 5195, and I am glad that the new VMC200L telescope works out well for you. Thanks for your fun read and well written report nFA, and the best of wishes for many clear skies.

[notFritzArgelander]

Hi nFA. A nice report and some information on those eyepieces. A nice haul with M13, M57, M51 and NGC 5195, and I am glad that the new VMC200L telescope works out well for you. Thanks for your fun read and well written report nFA, and the best of wishes for many clear skies.

Thanks, Makuser. I'm not terribly adventurous in my choice of objects. So I tend to repeat.

Skies look good for more days than not here.....

[terrynak]

Really enjoyed this report nFA, thanks for sharing! It has a little bit of everything - comparison of EPs with similar FL specs (but diff. in coatings and design), comparing scope performance (102 ED vs. VMC 200L), comparing weather and seeing/transparency conditions, observation of popular DSOs this time of year, and problems with neighbors.

Those Starbase EPs sound like good performers at a very reasonable price. May have to get a few for myself.

When one of my main observing spots was at a State Park canyon in an upscale area on the coast, it was kinda scary at times because I would be there all night - until the first early morning bus came by to take me home. Not because of wildlife, but humans. Those were the days when I did all my observing away from home in suburban/rural skies - and spent a lot of time and money doing so.

I was also more adventurous in terms of constantly seeking out new targets to add to my growing database of DSOs logged. Would always avoid seeing the same object again if I had it already logged (and sketched).

[notFritzArgelander]

Thanks terrynak, I’m glad you enjoyed the report.

As I’ve gotten older my hermit tendencies have intensified and this is reflected in my limited set of targets. Also when comparing kit I think it helps to be familiar with the objects.

I’ve also become more cautious about humans. Of course finding observing buddies would mitigate that risk, but it runs up against that hermit thing again.

The older you get the more like yourself you are.

[Buckethead 2.0]

The older you get the more like yourself you are.

I could see the both of us sitting on a park bench, feeding pigeons and not saying a word for hours.

I'm picky about human interraction in person these days, but online, everyone is safe to me. Lol