Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

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helicon United States of America
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#21

Post by helicon »


kt4hx wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:26 pm
stewe wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:52 pm
kt4hx wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:27 pm I don't know why, but this reminded me of about ten years ago when Orion was offering their "Monster Dobs" of 36, 40 and 50 inch models! That didn't seem to last too long, which is understandable given the prices! Here is a glimpse courtesy of the Wayback Machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/201002120604 ... telescopes
Geez, 50-inch Dob, it's the first time I see this. Wondering if anyone bought one while they were on sale.
They write:
"If your passion is the deep-sky and you want the biggest Dob at the star party, this Monster Dobsonian makes everything else look puny."
Sure: bringing this grab-and-go scope to a star party should be a breeze..
I cannot verify if any were ever sold. They were not mass produced, rather would be built as ordered. Certainly at the cost, they wouldn't stock them. Below is an image of the 36 inch model that was displayed at the April 2010 NEAF event I believe. However, from what I read, the original 36 inch mirror shattered during the vacuum coating process and that structure contains a 24 inch mirror. It was only a display model anyway. Orion contracted the noted Canadian mirror producer Normand Fullum to produce the mirrors for any orders and from what I've read a 50 inch model had been ordered by some organization, but I cannot verify that. By sometime in 2011 I believe they were no longer seen on the Orion website. I guess it was someone's "big" idea that fell flat. While looking through such a large scope would be quite an interesting thing to do, the cost is extremely prohibitive. I also wouldn't like the aspect of having to stand up on a tall ladder to observe. I am 6 ft tall and with my 17.5 inch f/4.5 at most I have to stand on the bottom step of a step stool when at zenith.

Orion Monster 36.jpg
I saw the website in 2012 and at the time they were still selling them. I thought about the 50" - not really seriously, but I did think about it. As I recall however, one needed about a 12' ladder to get the eyepiece comfortably. This is simply too high to be standing on in the middle of the night. It would be easy to fall down and get injured.
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#22

Post by kt4hx »


Agreed. I think the idea of having the aperture is nice, but unless it is done in a practical way, such as using ultra-fast optics to drastically reduce the focal length, it becomes unwieldy to handle. I would not be a fan of having to climb up a tall ladder every time I wanted to observe. To be certain if the optics and structure are done well, the views would be unbelievable, but I prefer something that I can at least manage by myself! :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#23

Post by j.gardavsky »


Hello all,

I used to have their predecessor manufactured in Russia, and sold for 100 DM at Sauter's in Munich, more than 20 years ago.
Optically, they have been acceptable due to the good quality of the LZOS)* lenses.
I am not sure what sorts of glass the manufacturers in China take.
The Orion binos are assembled from the repurposed teleexpanders for the cameras, so they should be good.

When using them on the northern hemisphere, one may run out of the Milky Way sections requiring the lowest magnifications and extra wide FOV, and still revealing something not seen before.
And this "something not so nicely seen before" have been the both Milky Way lanes between Deneb in Cygnus and the Garnet Star in Cepheus, the Northern Ink Spot, and the Northern Coal Sack.

So, I have sold these binos after one observing season, just my comment.

Best,
JG

PS: LZOS lenses are what Mark Ludes at APM takes for the expensive refractors
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#24

Post by stewe »


kt4hx wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:05 pm Agreed. I think the idea of having the aperture is nice, but unless it is done in a practical way, such as using ultra-fast optics to drastically reduce the focal length, it becomes unwieldy to handle. I would not be a fan of having to climb up a tall ladder every time I wanted to observe. To be certain if the optics and structure are done well, the views would be unbelievable, but I prefer something that I can at least manage by myself! :)
It's almost like having one of Herschel's reflectors in the backyard:
https://bit.ly/2vDBSx3
Orion should have sold their insane Dobs with a proper outfit seen at the bottom left corner of the figure. :joking:
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#25

Post by kt4hx »


stewe wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:55 pm
kt4hx wrote: Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:05 pm Agreed. I think the idea of having the aperture is nice, but unless it is done in a practical way, such as using ultra-fast optics to drastically reduce the focal length, it becomes unwieldy to handle. I would not be a fan of having to climb up a tall ladder every time I wanted to observe. To be certain if the optics and structure are done well, the views would be unbelievable, but I prefer something that I can at least manage by myself! :)
It's almost like having one of Herschel's reflectors in the backyard:
https://bit.ly/2vDBSx3
Orion should have sold their insane Dobs with a proper outfit seen at the bottom left corner of the figure. :joking:
That way you look like a dandy even when falling off the platform! :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#26

Post by j.gardavsky »


Just on a side line,

I have recently added to my arsenal the small Zeiss West 3x28 Diadem. It is sharp within some 15°, as expected with optics not aspherically corrected,
Zeiss West Diadem 3x28.jpg
Because of Covid, the prices are now down from 150EUR to less than 30EUR, https://www.ebay.de/itm/Karl-Zeiss-Oper ... SwyylefdBo

Just some fun and function,
JG
6" F/5 Sky-Watcher achro, 2" BBHS Star Diagonal, 2" zenith prism, 1.25" Takahashi prism
Leica 82mm APO Televid
Eyepieces: Docter UWA; Leica B WW and WW Asph. Zoom; Leica HC Plan S and L, monocentric; Pentax SMC XW, O-, XO; Tak MC O, Carl Zeiss B WW, and Pl, E-Pl, S-Pl, W-Pl;
Swarovski SW; Baader Symmetric Diascope Edition; Nikon NAV SW, ; TMB supermonocentric; Rodenstock; Vixen HR; TV Delos
Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader, Balzers, Zeiss West and East, Lumicon
Binoculars (7x42 up to 15x85): Docter Nobilem, Leica Ultravid, Nikon Astroluxe, Swarovski EL Swarovision; BA8 (Kunming Optical)
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#27

Post by Mandrew »


I finally got these! They are a totally different experience but one that I like. Don't think replacement,think variety. Think about naked eye observing but with an extra boost. Really, this is hard to describe, it has to be experienced to appreciate. They are ideally small to take anywhere.
They are like pupil expansion with a touch of extra light gathering. I like these for variety!
Devout bino lover and Lunaholic! Scopes - Celestron RASA 8, Orion 180mm Mak-Cass, 6"f8 dob, ST80. binos - Orion 7x50, Oberwerk 8x56 LW, Oberwerk 10x50 Deluxe, 15x70 Deluxe, Oberwerk 100mm ED Binocular telescope.
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#28

Post by helicon »


Mandrew wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:56 am I finally got these! They are a totally different experience but one that I like. Don't think replacement,think variety. Think about naked eye observing but with an extra boost. Really, this is hard to describe, it has to be experienced to appreciate. They are ideally small to take anywhere.
They are like pupil expansion with a touch of extra light gathering. I like these for variety!
Sort of like super eyeballs?
-Michael
Refractors: ES AR152 f/6.5 Achromat on Twilight II, Celestron 102mm XLT f/9.8 on Celestron Heavy Duty Alt Az mount, KOWA 90mm spotting scope
Binoculars: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, Bushnell 10x50
Eyepieces: Various, GSO Superview, 9mm Plossl, Celestron 25mm Plossl
Camera: ZWO ASI 120
Naked Eye: Two Eyeballs
Latitude: 48.7229° N
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#29

Post by Mandrew »


👍
Devout bino lover and Lunaholic! Scopes - Celestron RASA 8, Orion 180mm Mak-Cass, 6"f8 dob, ST80. binos - Orion 7x50, Oberwerk 8x56 LW, Oberwerk 10x50 Deluxe, 15x70 Deluxe, Oberwerk 100mm ED Binocular telescope.
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Re: Orion 2x54 ultra wide binoculars !?

#30

Post by DozerBolt »


Greetings!
So, I am an early purchaser of these Orion 2x54's, and have put them through their paces over two months - here's my quick take:

1. They are... weird. What I mean is that they are a strange combination of capability, and not exactly what I expected. Their sweet spot is indeed presenting the night sky as a "living star chart", reeling in stars 1-2 magnitudes deeper than wherever you are. And they are an honest 30+ degree FOV however you slice it - I can easily fit the Big Dipper into the entire FOV. I also refer to them as "Star Trek Transporters", with the feeling of instantly giving you another 3000 feet of elevation from wherever you happen to be observing from (I live at 100ft above sea level) for star seeing. They are great for practicing identifying constellations.

2. They are really really touchy. This is a total stretch of the Galilean Binocular concept, and what I have found is that they are EXTREMELY sensitive to your viewing angle. For example, I use a classic birding technique of resting the bins on my eye socket orbits, just below my eyebrows, to steady them, which involves a slight upward angle wrt my eyes - these bins go crazy blurry and coma the instant you try this. For me, they only appear to work when I hold them like eyeglasses, essentially straight to my face. Even a tiny bit of angle introduced to your eye blurs and unfocused the image. This is a bigger than expected problem for astronomy as it makes you tip back even further than I ordinarily would for observing. This is exacerbated by the individual focusing of each ocular. It's almost like they would be better with some sort of "head harness" to fix their angle. And a single bridge focuser would help immensely.

3. They suck at deep sky objects. I was totally unprepared for this - they are actually significantly worse than any astronomy binoculars I own at Messier objects. Seriously, they can't do M44 Beehive, M7, M6, easy reach stuff - it's almost like looking at them naked eye.

4. Other people love them. Every single time I use these in public, they draw a crowd - they are like astronomy bling! Or an astronomy Lamborghini - weird but interesting. This could be a positive OR a negative pending on your "socializing scale"...

So they are a mixed bag - and they are not cheap, so you should consider carefully before purchasing. Honestly, once I figured them out, I just don't use them much. I have kept them because they are an interesting addition to my collection, but they are way down the list of "which binoculars do I grab for observing".

Just my two cents...
DozerBolt from Northern California
Odyssey 8" Dob, Dynamax 6" Cat, Orion Shortube 90mm, Restored Tasco 9F 60mm, Meade EclipseView 82mm tabletop;
Orion 9x63 Little Giant AK roofs, Orion Ultra 2x54 Galilleans, Vortex Crossfire HD 12x50 roofs, Nikon Owl II 7x50, Atlas Eagle Owl 10x50 Porros;
Swift Audubon 8.5x44 804b(2), 10x42 Orion Otter ED SP Roofs, more;
"My other telescopes are Hubble and Spitzer"
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