CEM40 EC Review Part 2

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STEVE333 United States of America
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CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#1

Post by STEVE333 »



Hi all - Finally had a couple clear nights where the final testing on the new CEM40 EC mount could be completed.

SUMMARY:
1) The iPolar (Polar alignment system) works well and has produced Polar Alignment errors less than 1 arc min. After the first use (where a one-time calibration is required that takes about 5 minutes or less) Polar Alignment takes a minute or less.
2) The guiding has been sub arc second which is keeping my stars nice an round. No more thrown out frames because of guiding issues.
3) I really like this mount!

iPolar SYSTEM
Before using ithe Polar system you will need to download the iPolar software. Clicking on the link below will download the iPolar software to your laptop.

http://www.ioptron.com/v/firmware/3339_ ... iPolar.exe

The instruction manual for the iPolar system can be opened from the link below.

http://www.ioptron.com/v/manuals/3339_i ... Manual.pdf

Using the iPolar system
1) Connect the iPolar usb connector (located on the rear of the RA axel above the cable opening) to your laptop using the supplied USB cable. The first time iPolar is connected to your laptop it will automatically download the required driver to your laptop.
2) Open the iPolar program (downloaded at link provided above). The opening screen will appear as shown below.

Image

  • a) Click on Connect to connect the iPolar system to the laptop.
  • b) Where the Connect button was located you will see a message telling you a Dark Frame is required.
  • c) Click on Settings and then, in the window that opens, click on Take Dark Frame and follow the instructions.
  • d) Check the box Auto-Load Last Dark Frame and you won't need to take a Dark Frame next time. Close popup window.
  • e) The iPolar system will now start taking images and Plate-solving them. It requires at least 4 stars. When a plate solve is successful it will show a round red dot indicating where the North (or South) Celestial Pole is located (see image below). If this is the first time you have used iPolar the red "+" symbol will not be present. In that case you will need to "Calibrate" the mount as described in step (3) below. If the red "+" is present skip step (3) and go straight to step (4).

Image

3) CALIBRATION (Only required for first use)
  • Rotate RA axis clockwise until telescope and counterweight are approximately parallel to ground, then, click on the Confirm Position 1 button.
  • Rotate RA axis counterclockwise approx 180 degrees until telescope is on other side of mount and telescope and counterweight are again approximately parallel to ground. Click on the Confirm Position 2 button.
  • Rotate RA axis until telescope is approximately back to zero position. Click on the Confirm Position 3 button.
  • Calibration is complete. You should now see the red "+" near the center of the screen.

4) Polar Alignment. Using the mount Alt/Az knobs, move the red dot until it covers the red "+". When the dot and + are close the screen automatically magnifies to ensure accurate alignment (see image below).

Image

Once the red dot covers the red + you are Polar Aligned. All that remains is to do a 1-star alignment to correct any RA offset and your alignment is done.

NOTE: The next time you turn on iPolar to Polar align, the previous Dark Frame will automatically be loaded, and, you will see a screen similar to the one below. All you have to do is use your mount Alt/Az knobs to align the red dot and red "+" and you are Polar Aligned. Couldn't be easier! However, remember to finish with a 1-star alignment to correct any RA offset.

Image


GUIDING/TRACKING PERFORMANCE
I setup the mount, performed the Polar alignment + 1-star alignment, did focussing, then slewed to the target for the night (M13). I use PHD2 to perform the guiding (along with BackyardEOS) and did the normal PHD2 calibration. Following that I ran the Guiding Assistant) which turns off the guiding and watches the RA and Dec Drift. I let it run for 300 sec. The image below is a screen shot of the results.

Image

Guide assistant showed a Polar Alignment error of >0.4 arc-min which is very encouraging.

Next the guiding was started and 3 min exposures were the longest I could take with the LP and filter being used. The picture below shows the PHD2 guiding graph. The rms Guiding Error is seen to be < 1 arc-sec which is about 5 times better than my typical guiding with the old mount!!!

Image

This guiding produces perfectly round stars which are a pleasure to see.

As a final test I ran 3 min UNGUIDED exposures to see how well the encoders work. The mages below compare two image taken just 4 min apart. The one on the left was guided and the one on the right is unguided.

Image

Visually they are almost identical. An analysis showed the FWHM to be very slightly smaller for the guided image.

CONCLUSIONS
1) The cable management capabilities for this mount are excellent. They make balancing a breeze.
2) The GPS works easily and well.
3) The iPolar system for Polar Alignment took a bit of learning to get used to. However, once learned, the alignment is extremely easy/fast to do (takes only about a minute to do complete polar alignment) and my alignment errors appear to be sub arc-min. The recovery after Dithering is very fast (only a matter of several seconds).
4) The rms guiding performance has been sub arc-sec so far with no bad frames.
5) This mount is providing, by far, the best and most reliable guiding I've ever had.

Overall I am really enjoying this mount and would recommend it without any reservations. How much of the good performance depends upon having the encoders I really can't say. Clearly it will help for the Unguided performance.

Hope this review proves useful for you.

All the best,

Steve King
Last edited by STEVE333 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#2

Post by Juno16 »


Wow, Steve!

Excellent review!

Looks to be one fine mount! So glad that you are happy with it. Who wouldn’t be!

Enjoy!

Jim
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#3

Post by STEVE333 »


Juno16 wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:09 am Wow, Steve!

Excellent review!

Looks to be one fine mount! So glad that you are happy with it. Who wouldn’t be!

Enjoy!

Jim
Thanks Jim. The mount and I are definitely still in the honeymoon phase. :D

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#4

Post by JayTee »


Hi Steve,

Thank you for the review. Looking at your guiding graph, I see your total RMS error at .74 AS. This pretty much puts you at "seeing limited" guiding. It doesn't get much better than that!

Now go out there and image to your little heart's content, or whatever the weather will give you.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#5

Post by STEVE333 »


JayTee wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:22 am Hi Steve,

Thank you for the review. Looking at your guiding graph, I see your total RMS error at .74 AS. This pretty much puts you at "seeing limited" guiding. It doesn't get much better than that!

Now go out there and image to your little heart's content, or whatever the weather will give you.

Cheers,
JT
Thanks JT - I didn't know that about the "seeing limited" guiding. All I knew was that the stars were realllllly round!

I'm hoping to get some breaks in the weather, Like almost everybody it has been a day here, 2 weeks of nothing, a day there, 2 weeks of nothing, too much moon, etc. I'm just happy that I was able to get another day in to finish the Review.

Looking forward to Nebula season where I can use my Dual NB filters (Triad or Duo-Narrowband) to capture Ha and Oiii data with the trusty Canon T3. Those filters really help with the LP here and they allow for 9 min subs! Almost like doing NB imaging, but, without multiple filters or the filter wheel.

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#6

Post by bobharmony »


Thanks for both parts of the review, Steve. You are seriously contributing to my "Mount Envy" now. I had been looking at the CEM60, but the 40 will probably fit my needs (and my aching hips) quite well for some time to come. I am happy to hear you are having such great results.

Now excuse me while I go off and ponder - encoders/no encoders.

Bob
Hardware: Celestron C6-N w/ Advanced GTmount, Baader MK iii CC, Orion ST-80, Canon 60D (unmodded), Nikon D5300 (modded), Orion SSAG
Software: BYE, APT, PHD2, DSS, PhotoShop CC 2020, StarTools, Cartes du Ciel, AstroTortilla

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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#7

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Glad to hear the mounts working out for you Steve, looking forward to the future images :)
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#8

Post by bladekeeper »


Wow! Impressive results, Steve! Congratulations on an excellent mount! :)
Bryan
Scopes: Apertura AD12 f/5; Celestron C6-R f/8; ES AR127 f/6.4; Stellarvue SV102T f/7; iOptron MC90 f/13.3; Orion ST80A f/5; ES ED80 f/6; Celestron Premium 80 f/11.4; Celestron C80 f/11.4; Unitron Model 142 f/16; Meade NG60 f/10
Mounts: Celestron AVX; Bresser EXOS-2; ES Twilight I; ES Twilight II; iOptron Cube-G; AZ3/wood tripod; Vixen Polaris
Binoculars: Pentax PCF WP II 10×50, Bresser Corvette 10×50, Bresser Hunter 16×50 and 8×40, Garrett Gemini 12×60 LW, Gordon 10×50, Apogee 20×100

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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#9

Post by JayTee »


NOTE: I meant to post this 3 hours ago but got waylaid!

I don't know if you are familiar with this website, but I use it a lot to tell me about my imaging scale versus seeing conditions and what I can expect.
https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_suitability

Your imaging scale when using your ES102 and the 1100D is 1.5 arcseconds/pixel. The scale you are displaying in PHD2 is showing the imaging scale for your guide scope and camera combo. The .11 pixels number doesn't mean a lot because it's reporting on your guiding scale and your guide cam is not producing your light frames. So changing your PHD2 scale from pixels to arcseconds will tell you more info now that you are armed with the 1.5 arcseconds number. So an RMS less than 1.5 arcseconds means that your error is confined to just one pixel in width. So at .74, you are doing superbly.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#10

Post by STEVE333 »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:53 am Glad to hear the mounts working out for you Steve, looking forward to the future images :)
Thanks Gabrielle - Really looking forward to "Nebula Season".
bobharmony wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:44 am Thanks for both parts of the review, Steve. You are seriously contributing to my "Mount Envy" now. I had been looking at the CEM60, but the 40 will probably fit my needs (and my aching hips) quite well for some time to come. I am happy to hear you are having such great results.

Now excuse me while I go off and ponder - encoders/no encoders.

Bob
You're welcome Bob - First time I've been on the "good side" of the Mount Envy situation.
The CEM40 is about 11 lbs lighter than the CEM60! Since I leave the mount on the tripod, I don't think I could carry the CEM60 down my mobile home stairs. The CEM40 is already a pretty good load for me.
Wish I knew if the Encoders make a difference in the guiding. I finally decided to get the encoders because, I didn't want to spend $2000 and find out I needed the encoders ($3000). I may never know the real answer. However, the EC version is working fantastic for me.
bladekeeper wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:31 am Wow! Impressive results, Steve! Congratulations on an excellent mount! :)
Thanks Bryan - I'm sure glad it works well after spending all the $$$. Whew!!!

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#11

Post by STEVE333 »


JayTee wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:30 am NOTE: I meant to post this 3 hours ago but got waylaid!

I don't know if you are familiar with this website, but I use it a lot to tell me about my imaging scale versus seeing conditions and what I can expect.
https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_suitability

Your imaging scale when using your ES102 and the 1100D is 1.5 arcseconds/pixel. The scale you are displaying in PHD2 is showing the imaging scale for your guide scope and camera combo. The .11 pixels number doesn't mean a lot because it's reporting on your guiding scale and your guide cam is not producing your light frames. So changing your PHD2 scale from pixels to arcseconds will tell you more info now that you are armed with the 1.5 arcseconds number. So an RMS less than 1.5 arcseconds means that your error is confined to just one pixel in width. So at .74, you are doing superbly.

Cheers,
JT


Thanks JT - I'm actually using the WO Star71 right now, and, it has an imaging scale of about 3.1 arcseconds/pixel. Makes the guiding look even better.

Right on about the PHD2 display settings. I've been so used to using the "pixel" (rather than arc-sec) setting that it's hard to convince myself to change because I can "see" the improvement. Hard to change at 77.

By the way, many contributors here quote a number for the seeing. How can I determine the seeing for my location on a given night?

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#12

Post by JayTee »


STEVE333 wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:55 amBy the way, many contributors here quote a number for the seeing. How can I determine the seeing for my location on a given night?
Hi Steve,

Here is the article I use that describes everything you wanted to know (and then some) about how to gauge your local seeing. Most folks tend to use the Antonaidi and/or the Pickering/Douglas Standard scale. Here you go.
https://www.handprint.com/ASTRO/seeing2.html

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#13

Post by STEVE333 »


JayTee wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:28 am
STEVE333 wrote: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:55 amBy the way, many contributors here quote a number for the seeing. How can I determine the seeing for my location on a given night?
Hi Steve,

Here is the article I use that describes everything you wanted to know (and then some) about how to gauge your local seeing. Most folks tend to use the Antonaidi and/or the Pickering/Douglas Standard scale. Here you go.
https://www.handprint.com/ASTRO/seeing2.html

Cheers,
JT
Thanks for the link JT - A quick look at the article tells me I better get two or three cups of coffee into me before taking it on!

I might even keep a copy of it next to the bed for a night when I'm having trouble sleeping. :asleep: Why is it that useful information is often times so boring to read?

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#14

Post by a100171 »


Thanks for the review Steve. Seriously considering the iOptron route for a new permanent mount.

Now I am wondering where they fix them, in Woburn MA or somewhere else. Driving to Woburn is a lot cheaper than shipping one. Not quite the case with some others.

But the price difference in the EC versions...Ouch!
Meade 6", 8", and 10" SN, Meade 10" f/6.3 Lx200, ES ES-102, Meade 90mm DS-2000, Celestron CPC-800 HD, Celestron , AVX, CGEM-DX, Twilight I mounts. Omegon 2.1x 41mm Binocs.
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#15

Post by STEVE333 »


a100171 wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:14 am Thanks for the review Steve. Seriously considering the iOptron route for a new permanent mount.

Now I am wondering where they fix them, in Woburn MA or somewhere else. Driving to Woburn is a lot cheaper than shipping one. Not quite the case with some others.

But the price difference in the EC versions...Ouch!


Thank you.

I'm not sure where they get repaired. However, you can email them at

support@ioptron.com

which I have found works better than trying to contact them by phone. You should be able to get the answer directly from them.

I vacillated back and forth between the EC and non EC versions because of the price. In the end I did purchase the EC version. The guiding has been excellent, but, don't know if the guiding would have been the same without the EC. I know the EC helps for tracking, but, just not sure about the guiding. I got he EC because I had Dec backlash issues with my last mount, and, I hoped the EC version would prevent that from occurring.

Best of success whichever path you take.

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: CEM40 EC Review Part 2

#16

Post by chartram »


Steve,

Amazing review. Thank you sir for getting my whistle so wet it’s drowning :D

Seems like the perfect mount for the payload range and price point.

Mike
Mike Chartrand
Scopes: WO Star 71 Gen-II (F/4.9), Astro-Tech AT115EDT (F/7), Celestron 8" Edge HD (F/10)
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600MM w/ Baader 1.25" LRGB & Narrowband Filters, ZWO ASI174MM mini, Starlight Xpress Lodestar X2
Mount: Skywatcher NEQ6 Pro
Guiding: Orion ST-80 (f/5) w/ADM MiniMax (side-by-side), ZWO OAG
Software: PHD2, Sequence Generator Pro, PixInsight
Dark Site Transportation System: 2020 Telluride SX
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