Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#21

Post by Voyageur »


Looks to me like you’ve done everything right on the HC.

Good work on putting your equipment in your signature.

Now, on to how you are doing the alignment, as specified by Clinton.
Scopes: Vixen VMC200L, D=200mm, F=1950, f/9.75; Televue 2" Everbright diagonal. Coronado PST; AstroTech EDT 80mm, F=480, f/6.
Mounts: Vixen SXW/Starbook (original); Stellarvue M2C alt-az.
Eyepieces: Televue: 55mm Plossl, 22mm Panoptic, 17.3mm Delos, 13mm Nagler, c. 1980, 11mm Plossl, 7mm Nagler, 5mm Radian; Meade 15mm Super Plossl; VERNONSCOPE 2.4X BARLOW
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#22

Post by realflow100 »


the problem is it doesnt matter what stars I use.
i had altair and vega useable. it doesnt matter if i do 1 star align or 2 star align on both or either of them. i get the same problem even if I use stars on opposite ends of the sky. or one near horizon and one near the center of the sky.
ive tried every stars I could see
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#23

Post by KingClinton »


Your reply is vague and avoiding the question. For us to help you, we need reasonably accurate information.
We are aware that all your attempts to set up and align are not producing the expected results and the only way to help you is with a step by step account of your process, then we might see a problem and be able to help you correct it.

So if you could please explain how you approach the alignment and excatly what you do.
As an example, with my alt/az mount I start out by getting the mount level, then the scope itself needs to be pointing north, I use a compass to accomplish this, etc etc.

Now take us through your routine from setting the mount up and to the point when the HC says you have successfully aligned.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#24

Post by realflow100 »


I dont have any way to point the telescope north or south i dont have any compass
first I make sure its very level and stuff
and then what I do instead is align it is tell it to align to a star wait for it to finish slewing. and then loosen the clutches and rotate the mount horizontally and vertically by hand making sure its still level so its lined up to the star/target and then tighten everything down again and tell it to align to second star by adjusting it with the controller to slew it and center. instead of by hand. setting the alignment and fine tuning with the controller by slewing and it always says success
since that gets around the requirement of pointing towards south/north or any particular direction.

Thats the way ive been doing it. and it gives me the best tracking so far compared to any other method. but still not perfect.

My scope wants to be pointed straight up at a perfect 90 degree angle towards the center of the sky. and facing with the S on the mount towards south. and thats not really realistically feasible for me to do. as the tremendous vertical backlash would mess up the alignment quickly

It also has some horizontal backlash too

Its impossible for me to be able to fix that unless I replaced the gearbox assembly with tight fitting all metal gears and housing somehow custom machined to fit very snugly together and smoothly.

the backlash vertically is constantly varying and changing based on the balance of the telescope and how its angled. because it pulls different amounts depending on the angle. when its right in the middle where its almost free-floating it will switch backlash directions to be the other way as it transitions from being pulling one way to pulling the other way. since the weight isn't constant or perfectly in-line with the telescope.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#25

Post by KingClinton »


Thank you for the more comprehensive reply. :D

Your set up needs to follow some rigid rules!
Download a compass app for your cellphone.

I tried watching a few YouTube videos and they all say having the mount level with it pointed south and the scope at 90deg is absolutely essential.
Another factor is the weight of the scope you are using, do not exceed the recommended load capacity.
Also be sure the scope is well balanced as this will cause some of the problems with the backlash.
One more question, are you using batteries or mains power?
Batteries need to be brand spanking new with each use.

Try watching the links below, they may not be your exact scope but the principal will remain the same.







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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#26

Post by realflow100 »


the load is rated 11lb
im under half the rated load

its impossible to aim it perfectly south. any compass i put near it points straight towards the magnets inside the motors of the tracker. so thats out of the window impossible to do.
its also impossible to aim my telescope perfectly 90 degrees because as soon as It slews down at all. it will change angle by a varying amount because of the strong backlash and weight shifting differently.

I have tried doing it that way before as best as I can. its useless. its far worse tracking than doing it the way ive been doing it instead. Not even close. Nothing stays in view for more than a minute. then its gone

mine also doesnt have any kind of GPS. its full manual all the way.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#27

Post by KingClinton »


Well I'm afraid that is the setup required for your scope to operate at it's best.

As for the compass.
Stand in the spot you wish to set up the scope.
Now use the compass in your hand and find north and south, then draw a line on the ground or pack some pebbles, anything to have a north south line on the ground.
Now set up the mount on the line with the S on the scope facing south on your line.

Next issue is your balancing, most of the linked videos deal with this, make sure your scope is balanced!
Also, are the clutches tight? And don't break them by forcing them to much!
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#28

Post by JayTee »


Ok,

I just received my first iOptron mount so I can now give you advice based on my experience.

First off, you really need to get your park position nailed down. I understand the smartphone (SP) compass is influenced by the mount's motor magnets. So do this instead, stand more than 3' away from your mount and rotate your body so that your SP says you are pointing south. Now move over to your mount and stand behind it (don't get any closer than 3') so that the south-pointing arrow is pointing right at your mount. Next, look beyond your mount at a visual reference in your yard that lines up with your south-pointing compass arrow, for example, the third fence post, or the 2nd slat from the 3rd fence post, or the trunk of my neighbor's pine tree. Once you have this visual reference, you now know where south is and you can point your mount appropriately and as long as you're within about 5° of true south, you should be good to go for setting up your park position.

Next, from your description, because you weren't able to find south and thereby set up the mount for the correct park position, you were using the "sync to target" method of aligning your scope. Let's move away from this method because you have now found the correct park position. On the hand controller (HC) select the 2-star align if you can see 2 bright stars or 1-star align if you can only see one. A 2-star align always gives more accurate gotos and tracking. Remember, keep your axes locked at all times during the alignment routine. If you get an align success at this point please let us know.

JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#29

Post by Graeme1858 »


That's sound advice Clinton.

Also, if the compass is affected by stray magnetic fields then you can use Stellarium to check when various stars are at specific compass points, make a note of them and then go out at those times and mark out North and South.

If you can't see Polaris. Where I am, Arcturus is due East at 20:45. Regulus is due South at 21:30. Venus is due West at 20:20. Pollux and Castor are due West at 23:15. And you get to recognise where some of the brighter stars are at the same time!

Regards

Graeme
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#30

Post by realflow100 »


the clutches are plenty tight.

And it shouldn't matter if my telescope is point any which way if I manually rotate the mount by hand loosening the knobs and then tightening it with the selected star in the center of the field of view. instead of slewing. for aligning the first star.
then if im doing 2 star alignment i slew normally. to make it more accurate.
because once I do that and align it properly. if i tell it to park. it will park perfectly straight up and perfectly towards south (based on my crappy compass roughly if I stand far enough away its not influenced by the magnets in the scope)
so that gets around the south facing issue.

Many stars than about 30 to 40 degrees are below trees. some even below 45 degrees below trees and buildings. venus is below buildings as soon as the sun sets so i'm limited to above that.

Updated my signature to included 2 filters i forgot i have.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#31

Post by Star Dad »


I don't have that mount - but I do have the original mini-tower. You need to set the time to -300 and daylight savings yes - that will get you the current -4Z time zone. If you go to -240 then you must turn off DST. This is provided that the current date is set in the hand controller. I dind that most of the time I have to reset the time in the hand controller, though it does have the correct time occasionally.

Make sure your tracking speed is set to sidereal.

iOptron and probably most other manufacturers do not READ the encoders - they only write to them. So when I set up I level the mount scope pointed vertically - checked with a level and turned to the South. Forget the star alignment. I gave up on that years ago. Instead I have the scope slew to a well known star - I use Mizar at it is very distinctive being a quadruple binary system... you'll only see two stars. The mount slews towards and NEVER stops on it. Then - not loosening the clutches - I move it manually - not using the controller - I mean physically pushing it to center on Mizar. It tracks perfectly for the rest of the night. When I do outreach, occasionally someone will bump the scope off target. I simply redo the alignment on Mizar and I'm back tracking in less than 5 minutes. Doing a 2-star align can take some time - and this method is better by far.

With an Alt/Az mount you should be able to get 20 second exposures. 30 seconds is really pushing it. Alt/Az does not take into account rotation of the earth. Star trails become (for me) very apparent at 30 seconds.

I am not sure if you are using the hand controller or a computer to control the mount. If computer make sure that it is set for sidereal tracking. I think you might be better off using the Hand Controller, though. Unless I am spot on I find I have to correct every couple of minutes at high magnifications. Most DSOs, though for AP, just using a camera you shouldn't have too much trouble tracking.
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Re: Fixing trailing/tracking problem? Please help! ioptron smartstar E8500R

#32

Post by realflow100 »


I'm not using any computer. I only have the hand controller. it has no options for tracking speed in any way. its all automatic and not changable. extremely limited.

I'm getting a 55-250mm IS II camera lens in about a week roughly along with an dovetail to 1/4 L bracket adapter to attach the camera directly to the telescope mount. being well aligned I can also have it balanced much better less stress and much higher tracking accuracy. much less backlash.

I have time set to 300 minutes BEHIND UTC with daylight savings true.

One time I was able to get about 21 good exposures at full 30 second length long exposures with no real trailing. so I was able to stack them and get visible bode's galaxy and cigar galaxy with a super cheap 70mm refractor telescope at 360mm focal length and there was no significant field rotation after stacking the frames. the image looked great

but when I get my new camera lens I can shoot at any focal length between 55mm and 250mm even maybe get andromeda galaxy. pleiades. and flame nebula or other cool things. double cluster. and stuff

I'm not sure how I got the good long exposures of bode's galaxy and cigar galaxy. but i remember only doing 1 star alignment. and the "manual slewing by turning the mount horizontally" and making sure its level enough

After replacing the battery in the hand controller it keeps the time and date every time for me.
Svbony SV503 70mm ED F6 420mm FL refractor telescope (New)
Canon EOS 100D/SL1
Tamron 18-200mm F3.5-F6.3 II VC lens
canon 50mm STM F1.8
svbony 8-24mm zoom eyepiece
svbony goldline 66 degree 9mm and 6mm + 40mm plossl + 2x barlow.
svbony UHC 1.25 filter + astromania 1.25" O-3 filter + also an svbony H-B filter.
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