PHD2 Weird Guiding Graph- Anyone seen this before?

[chris_g]

Right after a calibration, Celestial Equator they were tight, then just jumped to this? Skies are clear, seeing I think average. Guiding was messed up all night and I'm not sure why so I recalibrated and got this??? It gives an oblong shape, not really egg though

Edit:

Sorry, it was late when I wrote this at the end of the night.
I had oblong stars after what appeared to be a good calibration. I've never seen a guiding graph look like it does in this, has any one else?

[Juno16]

No, I haven't seen that before. Odd for sure.

Looks kind of like PHD2 is correcting in RA, but not in DEC.
Since you just calibrated, how does the calibration graph look?
Did you run the GA after calibration and are your guiding settings the recommended settings?
I see that correction pulses are not displayed. If you click the checkbox on the left side, you can see the correction pulses that PHD2 is issuing.
Did you look at the guide log and could you attach it to this thread?
The star profile is much broader at the base than what I am used to seeing and the plotted guide star is a bit mushy looking. No sure if that means anything, but just different from what I am used to seeing.
Guide scope focus look good?

I'll be chasing the grandson around all day, but if you can post your calibration graph and guide log (documents/PHD2) maybe someone can help with diagnosis.

Good luck!

[chris_g]

I had tried calibrating I don't know how many times before I finally got to this, I was going to post something, not sure what, when I found @JayTee post about easy scope position,

Settings are not defaults, but they are all the same the last time out without any issues. The two settings changed were RA aggression and Dec aggression to 60% and 70% respectively. I normally have the correction pulses on, not sure why I turned that off.

I couldn't get any decent calibrations trying to focus with PHD2 so I used APT. The image is the last one used and shows the focus of the scope, I stopped because SNR was over 40 on the star it was auto selecting for guiding

M53_Single__0582_2023-05-19_00-34-48_UV_IR_Bin1x1_7s__75F.png (60.37 KiB) Viewed 1475 times

I used APT to move to the equator

APT - Equator.jpg (22.03 KiB) Viewed 1475 times

And that got me here, not the first time though.

Any thoughts were be apreicated

[JayTee]

Hi Chris,

I'm not sure what your question is... A little more clarification would be appreciated so we all can give you a better diagnosis.

Cheers,

[Juno16]

Hi Chris,

The grandson is napping, so I got a chance to see if you responded.

Definitely more information about previous session performance and what got you to this point would be very helpful. Like what went on since your last successful session.

There is so much going on in the guide log. In the last run, it almost looks like the guide pulses are pushing the DEC and RA more away from 0.

Strange how the some of the calibration graphs are inverted.

Twice since I have been imaging, I have had issues with PHD2. One time, the target slowly moved away from the center as the night went on. Probably not related to dithering.
Recently, I just could not get good guiding performance. Not horrible, but not normal.
Both times, I created a new profile in PHD2 and just started over. Didn't take much time at all, and as long as it has a unique name, it won't effect the old profile.
The first issue was definitely related to PHD2. The second was probably me tweaking too much over time and a start back at baseline defaults fixed it up.

Don't know if it would help in this case, but just info to pass along if you ever need it.

So, I really wasn't clear, did you ever get a calibration near the celestial equator/meridian?

I haven't tried JT's method. I usually just use SkySafari (or any other sky app) to find a star close to the intersection of the celestial equator/meridian and slew there with my planatarium application (Cartes du Ceil). Then start calibration and run the Guiding Assistant right after calibration.

Sorry another question, what is your DEC backlash?

[chris_g]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to look, family is important. When APT went to the equator it was in the same position that the scope was in JT's post that graph was the calibration I got out of it in that position. I tried hunting stars last night for calibration and always got some sort of complaint from PHD2., that was before I found the initial post in this forum! That calibration is what I got out of it last night. It looks good...Stars looked a little mushy, thought that might be from poor seeing conditions, not sure. My last session was a complete tear down and set up. I had the C8 ready for a grab and go. I was ready to rebuild profiles and all that and calibration files All went well with focusing both main and guide scopes, then it wall went down hill I have one more opportunity tonight before clouds roll back in.

Hi @JayTee

Oh wow, I just reread it, I was tired when I wrote that! Almost gibberish!
I had oblong stars and a guiding graph looked like it did in the initial post. I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a guiding graph like that before.

[Petrol]

I've had a similar guiding graph on my EQ5. I put it down to one of two things. Terrible polar alignment (couldn't find polaris) or messed up PHD2. I uninstalled PHD2 and re installed it, set up a new profile using the wizard with default setting and it sorted it. Think I have a pic of the graph somewhere if it helps.
Clear skies
Pete

[Juno16]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for taking the time to look, family is important. When APT went to the equator it was in the same position that the scope was in JT's post that graph was the calibration I got out of it in that position. I tried hunting stars last night for calibration and always got some sort of complaint from PHD2., that was before I found the initial post in this forum! That calibration is what I got out of it last night. It looks good...Stars looked a little mushy, thought that might be from poor seeing conditions, not sure. My last session was a complete tear down and set up. I had the C8 ready for a grab and go. I was ready to rebuild profiles and all that and calibration files All went well with focusing both main and guide scopes, then it wall went down hill I have one more opportunity tonight before clouds roll back in.

Hi @JayTee

Oh wow, I just reread it, I was tired when I wrote that! Almost gibberish!
I had oblong stars and a guiding graph looked like it did in the initial post. I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a guiding graph like that before.

Hi Chris,

So, you should be good now after the last calibration? You might have answered me, but I could have missed it. Have you run the Guiding Assistant post good calibration?

I've had a similar guiding graph on my EQ5. I put it down to one of two things. Terrible polar alignment (couldn't find polaris) or messed up PHD2. I uninstalled PHD2 and re installed it, set up a new profile using the wizard with default setting and it sorted it. Think I have a pic of the graph somewhere if it helps.
Clear skies
Pete

Good to hear that I am not alone having to set up a new profile in PHD2 because of issues. I haven't un-installed and re-installed the software, but that really isn't much work at all. The new profile has done the trick for me (so far).

PHD2 is awesome software and the support is fantastic. Great folks and free software. Can't beat that!

"Terrible polar alignment (couldn't find polaris)". Good point! The PHD2 Guiding assistant should tip you off to that.

[Juno16]

One more thing Chris.

If you continue to have issues, go to https://groups.google.com/g/open-phd-guiding?pli=1
and log in and start a thread with the issues that you’ve having.
They are a great bunch of folks and will give you good advice.
Be sure to upload the logs ( Help-Upload Guide logs).

I’m a member of all of the forums!

[chris_g]

've had a similar guiding graph on my EQ5. I put it down to one of two things. Terrible polar alignment (couldn't find polaris) or messed up PHD2. I uninstalled PHD2 and re installed it, set up a new profile using the wizard with default setting and it sorted it. Think I have a pic of the graph somewhere if it helps.
Clear skies
Pete

Hey Pete,

I'm wondering if it might be the PA. I used APT's PAPS routine, had to do it twice of all the weirdness. I ran it at the beginning of the night, made adjustments to withing 30 seconds on both axes and started a session, got some weird results, like PA was off and PHD2 wouldn't stop complaining. So I reran the PA routines and it was off again by over a degree. Dialed it back in again to less than a minute in the RA axis and the DEC was within 30 seconds. That was when I got oblong stars and the guide graph above I posted

If you continue to have issues, go to https://groups.google.com/g/open-phd-guiding?pli=1
and log in and start a thread with the issues that you’ve having.
They are a great bunch of folks and will give you good advice.
Be sure to upload the logs ( Help-Upload Guide logs).

Hey Jim,

I always start here first! No, I never got a good session after the "good" alignment. Bang to the profile if it does it again...

[Juno16]

Chris,
You should try the PHD2 Guiding Assistant.
I run it for 5 minutes before each session.
It will confirm PA.

Good luck!

[chris_g]

PA Redo, new guiding profile, all went smooth, wish it would have done it last night!

I'll check out the guide assistant, learn something new every time, did not know about it

[Juno16]

I'll check out the guide assistant, learn something new every time, did not know about it

Much better guiding graph. DEC still isn't under control though. Possibly backlash?

Do try the GA. It is one of the best tools in PHD2. Checks your PA, recommends settings based on current conditions, and checks DEC backlash. You don't need to check DEC backlash every time, but it gives you a baseline and help setting up Backlash Compensation in PHD2. Fine tuning that setting will help recovery after a dither and get you more imaging time.

Good luck!

[Gordon]

I have had a similar graph before (actually a few times) and I found I could just shut down PHD and restart it. I don't know what causes it but it seems to be okay after a restart.

[AstroBee]

I have had a similar graph before (actually a few times) and I found I could just shut down PHD and restart it. I don't know what causes it but it seems to be okay after a restart.

I know it sounds so silly, but I was coming here to say exactly the same as Gordon. I've had this happen to me and found that after confirming the Polar Alignment was good, the only thing that solved it was rebooting my computer and restarting PHD2.

[JayTee]

I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a guiding graph like that before.

Unfortunately, ALL the time!

[Juno16]

@Gordon

I have had a similar graph before (actually a few times) and I found I could just shut down PHD and restart it. I don't know what causes it but it seems to be okay after a restart.

I know it sounds so silly, but I was coming here to say exactly the same as Gordon. I've had this happen to me and found that after confirming the Polar Alignment was good, the only thing that solved it was rebooting my computer and restarting PHD2.

Interesting!
The first time that I created a new PHd2 profile was at the advice of the N.I.N.A. Discord folks as my guiding was good, but the target moved off center over time (not dithering related).
The second time was because of non- typical poor guiding. Not really bad, but not anywhere near as good as usual.
A PHD2 restart might be something to try in the second case. Would be quick and I wouldn’t have to warm the camera and cool again as I would in a reboot.
Thanks for the information fellas!

[chris_g]

I know it sounds so silly, but I was coming here to say exactly the same as Gordon. I've had this happen to me and found that after confirming the Polar Alignment was good, the only thing that solved it was rebooting my computer and restarting PHD2.

Friday night was truly a decent night for guiding and image acquisition. I got three clusters, over two hours each. Any weird guiding issues and BOOM! to the profile and start fresh from the Wizard. I changed nothing other than shutting down the PC and new profile from the wizard. Please, thank you for what does not sound silly at all to me. Speaking from a programmer's view, computers can get confused and profiles can become corrupted very easily, just ask Microsoft!

Clear Skies,
Chris