Trying to get the best of my Celestron Astromaster 130EQ

[West83]

Hello everybody

I am a newb in the field of astronomy, although I have always been very interested. I actually bought my first telescope 2 years ago - the Astromaster 130EQ MD. I did some preliminary research and felt it was the most I could get for that money. I got the Baader Q-turret set as a present to go with it (6,10,18mm orthos + 32mm Plossl + 2,25 Barlow), which I felt complemented the scope very well.

My first attempt at scoping was almost 2 years ago with the Lunar eclipse, which looked quite cool, but the nearby Mars, which was supposed to be visible was nothing but a blurb. I realized quite soon that the Newtons needed collimating, which was something I didn't really understand well. This meant that my new scope went into the closet only to be take out 4 days ago, when I finally bought a laser collimator. I thought that my worries would be over since i watched all the youtube videos. It turned out that the collimator needed to be collimated (some more headache), which I think I accidentally pulled off (did the rotating test, and it seems that the beam is rotating around its axis, but I think I need to test with a greater distance). So I learned a bit about collimating my secondary mirror, and despite having the laser collimator I think I do it better by eyeballing it through the focuser (with the white paper against the tube), without the use of a collimating cap.

So 2 nights ago, I got to see a very bright moon. I learned that looking at it, was quite a pain in the eye. And last night was my first real attempt at stargazing in the open all by myself. A wonderful and rewarding experience! I got to see Venus, and then checked some stars. Unfortunately I am still not skilled enough, and I got to see that light polution is terrible around Ljubljana, Slovenia. It was too difficult to find and point at any Messier objects, which would be really something. I actually can't wait to go again, I am so hooked.

So to get back to the actual point of this topic, I really want to get the most out of my Astromaster, I know it is a low-end telescope, and I don't expect miracles, but I would like to observe the moon, planets and some of the the most famous DSOs. In order to get that I would like get some extra accessories. I have read a lot, and honestly my head is starting to spin from all the information.

1. I would like to buy a filter (or several of them) and I would like to know if anybody has any experience with similar telescopes and filter usage. I am definitely thinking of buying the Moon Filter from Baader (the 12,5% as I udnerstood its the best one to go for, but I am afraid that the moon might be too dark during some phases). Another filter that I would like to buy is something that helps with light polution preferably a quality one but not too pricey Baader Moon and Sky filter was something that I thought of but it's not cheap, but if it will help in finding nebulas and galaxies I would definitely think about it. So basically besides the ND filter I am looking at an all rounder which would help the most with LP and viewing planets and DSOs (but I read that filters don't do much for planets on such apertures)

2. Eyepieces and Barlow - the Q-turret got me the 2,25 Barlow, which I used in a way that I unscrewed it from the tube and placed the lens directly on the Qturret, hoping that I would give me magnification on each eyepice. Somehow I think I am not getting the proper magnification, any thoughts on this and most effective Barlow usage? The 1,3-2,25 is confusing to say the least.
I think that for now the eyepieces are great for me, so I don't plan on purchasing new until I get some experience. I actually don't use the 10mm and 20mm which came in the bundle, as I read they are of poor quality.

3. Magnification - from what I understood this telescope "should have" a useful magnification of 260x, which I seriously doubt, and I calculated that with my set of EPs I could get to around 240, which should work well if properly collimated.

4. Collimating - I am quite scared of taking out the primary and putting the donut in the center, but I guess I will have to do it. And aligning the secondary is a pain in the neck, if anybody has a good advice I would be grateful. Also I am wondering, because I have to drive to a decent spot to look at the sky, will I always have to collimate the secondary? The primary should be easy to do with the laser I am guessing.

5. Shaking (!!) - the scope shakes quite much, so I set it up without extending the legs on the mount, it helps a bit, but with higher magnification focusing or using the handles to fine tune the RA produces shaking. I was thinking of adding the motorized focuser (which I saw on this forum on one member Astromaster EQ114, which looked really great) So some advice regarding that would be super.

6. Motor - I actually removed the motor, as I am not yet experienced enough to use it, I actually think I might broke it a bit when I turned it on, while the knob for RA was totaly snug But trying to keep a star in focus last night at higher magnifications, I realized I will definitely want to put it back on quite soon, especially when Jupiter and Saturn come on earlier in the night next month.

Any help would be highly appreciated and any additional advice as well.

Hope the post is not too long. Clear skies everybody!
W.

[Lady Fraktor]

Hello, the 130mm can be a capable fun telescope.

Baader filters are quite good optically which unfortunately needs prices are higher, the Moon & Skyglow is a bit of a multitasker filter so will probably be alright starting out though you may want to look at
O-III or UHCfilters for some nebula/ planetary nebula

A turret does not always play well with the Newtonian design so I would try your eyepieces without the turret or barlow to see how they work.
If your 10mm and 20mm are the stock supplied eyepieces they are pooe quality and using them with the turret will make them worse in use.

Here is a small article on picking out focal lengths for your telescope: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=550
It will be good to get you out viewing well.

Have you read Astro baby guide to collimation? One of the best/ easiest to read and understand to get it setup properly: http://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/hel ... reflector/
Do you have a collimating cap or Cheshire eyepiece? To properly collimate your telescope the secondary needs to be square to the focuser and a laser will not help with that.
A laser helps align the primary but the secondary alignment is just as important.
Removing the mirror to center spot it is a easy job and no reason to be nervous. Take your time and have fun.

The Orion focuser motor works well for hands free focusing, less vibration. If you are setting up on a hard surface a set of vibration suppression pads may help a bit as well if you cannot set up on grass.
I will have to look at the tripod/ mount there may be a few places to improve stability there as well.

The clutch is supposed to be locked for the motor to work so you should not have damaged it. When tracking it will turn very slowly.
If you can hear it working in the case it is probably fine.

It is very refreshing to read a post that is in paragraphs instead of a paper long sentence so thank you for that

[West83]

Thank you for the reply and happy that paragraphing the post helps, especially when it's longer

I have started reading the forum and found some helpful tips. I will have to delve into the eyepiece topic, it takes more effort to soak it all and let it sink in. It will help in the future when I decide on buying another (or several) eyepiece. I do hope you agree that my current set is sufficient, because I would like to mod my scope with other upgrades which seem to be necessary in order to really get the most out of it.
I will most definitely take my time with the collimation guide, really want my observations to be as good as they can be. Any suggestions what should be used to create the "donut" on the primary mirror, do you agree that I should not go for the dot, because I want to use laser collimator in the future?

And thank you for the tip regarding the turret, I found it really useful not having to change the eyepiece while observing, so that I kept the object in sight while changing magnification, but I will have to learn to be quick



so about the filters:
1. Neutral Density for Moon observation is probably a must, and I am eager to get me the:
Baader 1.25" Neutral Density Filter with optical density ND 0.9 - Transmission 12.5% - Reduction factor 8. (priced around 37€ - I am thinking if this is the way to go, because there are cheaper filters for the moon. But I prefer the quality and wait with buying the other filter if it makes a difference)

2. Light pollution filter - since I obviously live in a moderately to heavily light polluted area (never thought so) I will probably want to buy one. Options are (please let me know if I understood the entire idea behind these filters correctly, I am looking for an all rounder, which will help with planets as well as DSOs):
Baader Neodymium 1¼" (Moon & Skyglow)-Filter (priced around 70€)
Astronomik CLS deep sky filter (31.7mm) (around 70€)
Astronomik UHC-E deep sky filter (31.7mm) (around 65€)
or
Orion Filters UltraBlock Filter(80€)

I am looking at what would bring the best performance as my primary filter to use (any gain for planets, clusters, galaxies and nebulae), because I will probably wait some time until I can afford to shell out another 60-100€ for a dedicated nebula filter. I know its probably too much to ask for, but maybe somebody here has extensive experience which might help me decide.

EDIT: What is the opinion about the "planet" filters, most notably 80A and 82A. I heard that the latter is more useful with aperture of 130mm. Is it worth exploring at this stage?

motor focuser:
I have an option to purchase the motor from a local dealer:
SkyWatcher Auto-Focuser (roughly 70€)

Or I can order from a German dealer which would have extra shipping:
Orion AccuFocus electronic focuser (80€ without shipping)

Does anybody know if there is any actual difference and would both work well with Astromaster 130? It would be quite an investment, but I feel that this part along with the filter might be the best buy for now.

Finderscope:
I noticed that most owners have poor opinion about the finderscope (red dot) on the Astromasters, and I can say that its not the best. Would I gain significant improvements in finding DSO with a TELRAD? I understood that lots of people use it alongside the stock finder. So if anybody has any experience please let me know.

There are 2 options, one is to go for the:
Actual Telrad that costs roughly 70€

or go for the cheaper but similar finder:
Omegon Radiant Finder with fastener


Once I complete all this with the motor, I think I will have all I need to start observing the skies efficiently and with much more pleasure.

Thank you all for any answers and help in advance.

[West83]

Update:

Ok so I checked the R/A motor drive that came with my scope. It doesn't turn, so I remembered correctly. It's a damn shame, I was hoping to use it with my observations. Anybody has any experience in fixing these things, or what type of repairman I should look for.

It sounds like it's working, the light is on as well, but the knob on the back, which should be rotating is standing still. Bummer..

[Lady Fraktor]

1. ND filters are handy if you find the Moon a bright object, there are a couple of things you can try before spending money on a filter though.
Do not dark adapt your eyes, a small amount of light is fine when viewing the lunar surface or planets as the reflect a lot of light.
Try viewing the Moon with sunglasses, it is actually effective and you may already have a set you like.
If you decide you do want a filter the ND0.9 will work well.
Some people like using variable polarisers as well.

2. Light pollution filters are a misnomer as they really do not help with blocking light pollution.
The saying is the best filter is petrol to get to darker skies.
The Baader is a good all around filter when starting out and will even work a bit with contrast on Jupiter.
The cheap coloured filters that most retailers sell are really not useful other than changing the colour of an object. Better filters such as Baader or Astronomik are useful though costs go up.
A UHC or O-III filter would be useful for nebula.

A handy “rule” for filters, under 200mm aperture use lighter coloured filters and over 200mm use dark ones.

3. The SW moto focus is just a re-branded Orion one so get which is cheaper.

4. Some of the RDF are not very good but a Telrad is a very handy piece of kit, the Omegon is a blatant copy at half of the cost so again save some money.
You can download finder charts for free online just do a search and you will find many.
A Telrad and 8x50 finder are quite common. Use the Telrad to get you close and the finder to pinpoint.

5. A light shield opposite the focuser can be useful for blocking some stray light.
Many people use them, hopefully one can post a picture of theirs.
Flocking the front of the tube is also beneficial as it will stop light being reflected down the tube to the mirror.

Which retailer are you planning to buy from?

[West83]

Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it very much!

So first thing is first:

1. Filters
I am definitely listening to you and going for the Baader Skyglow & Moon. It seems like the best first filter, as you said all rounder.
I am not buying an ND but will rather think about the Lumicon 82A, which I understood will help out when starting and I've seen many astronomers suggesting it for the beginner, I wanted to actually buy the contrast filter from baader (which I read works well with Skyglow, here in an article) but will leave it as my next purchase along with the O-III. I think these 2 would suit me well for checking out the planets this summer and hopefully help with my first attempt at Messiers
Thank you for the handy rule, this is much more helpful than those that say "up to 130" and "130 and above", which were confusing to say the least.

Retailer for the filters: Local distributer for Baader - 78€, and if I decide I will order from Astroshop.eu for the lumicon 82A - 49€ (the lumicon is a bit expensive, but I rather buy a better one, unless I am wrong here?)

2.SW Motofocus, if it's all the same, then I am getting this one from Astroshop:
https://www.astroshop.eu/motors-control ... es/p,11469
It will set me back 61€

3. The finder Omegon is not in stock, and will be available sometime in June, so I will wait. And thanks for the advice, I will buy it over Telrad to save some €€

So this first investment will be 140 total for the motor focuser and Baader Skyglow filter. Hope its the right choice. I will have to buy a collimation cap, because I understood that it is essential for proper collimation of the secondary mirror. And I will get the cleaning kit for 9€ from a local retailer. Do you reckon I can use it to clean the Primary and Secondary mirrors? I will do it before I place the center mark on the primary.

A question regarding the 5. point in your post. I don't understand what exactly is it for?

Another question about the R/A motor drive. I thought it doesnt work because it doesn't rotate, but then again it might be that it is rotating so slow that I cant really notice it? I guess I will have to mount it on the scope and try it on my next session.

[Lady Fraktor]

For cleaning eyepieces and optics, a rocket bulb blower to blow off loose dust.
You are only going to clean the mirrors of the telescope when they become dirty and unless it is tree sap, spiderwebs or a mouse has died in the tube you will be cleaning it once every 1 to 2 years.
It takes a lot of dust to affect the views.
Many people use Zeiss wipes and cleaning fluid, some of the best available.

The focuser tube on a Newtonian is open and depending on viewing angle, stray light can enter the tube and reflect into the focuser tube and your eye.
Here is a picture of one.
Easy to make from plastic sheet or stiff foam

8b32db0ce4cd03a6e204ec28fb240c2704c2d25a_astrozap-light-shield-for-16-dobsonian-telescopes.jpg (18.29 KiB) Viewed 4155 times

[OzEclipse]

Hi West,
Welcome to TSS.

Collimation
I have owned a 6"f7 reflector for a bit over 40 years and I have never needed a laser to collimate it. I do have a laser to collimate my 18 inch telescope but that is much more of a necessity because it is so big and so that I can stand at the back of the scope and see the projected collimation spot 2 meters away at the eyepiece otherwise it is a 2 person job. But a small scope can be collimated easily by eye without a collimator.

The Astrobaby collimation guide Gabby linked is very comprehensive but so comprehensive it can be intimidating. Collimation is a pretty simple process.

Does your scope have finger adjustable knobs or does it require tools? If it is finger adjustable knobs, then you can skip the laser collimator until you learn to collimate it. I can reach the collimation knobs of the smaller 6" scope while looking through the eyepiece.

1. With you eye well back from the focus tube sight down and check that the mirror is reasonably centred in the focuser tube.
2. Centre your eye in the focuser, adjust the secondary holder knobs until you see your eye centred in the secondary mirror.
3. Adjust the primary mirror cell so that the outline of secondary mirror is centered in the field of view.
If either of these were way out of adjustment, repeat the cycle 2 & 3 one or possibly two more times.

You'll soon learn by trial and error.

RA motor
Are you sure it is not working? You say there is sound and lights so this suggests it is working. The gear at the output of an RA drive motor will only make one revolution every 8-10 minutes, the motion is not really noticeable to the eye. I am not sure what the gear ratio is so I can't tell you the exact period for the revolution. Mark the gear with a marker pen and check for movement after 2 minutes.

Make sure the scope is balanced before attempting to use the motor. Motor drives don't have a lot of torque and will either stall a motor or worse, strip a gear if overstressed. These motor drives are not very expensive and may be cheaper to replace rather than send for repair.

Good luck and enjoy

Cheers

Joe

[Lady Fraktor]

Update:

Ok so I checked the R/A motor drive that came with my scope. It doesn't turn, so I remembered correctly. It's a damn shame, I was hoping to use it with my observations. Anybody has any experience in fixing these things, or what type of repairman I should look for.

It sounds like it's working, the light is on as well, but the knob on the back, which should be rotating is standing still. Bummer..

Is it the motor that came with the telescope mount or a different one?

There should be a knob to let you increase/ decrease the speed of rotation, if on slow it will not seem to be rotating.
Put a mark on top of the shaft and let it run for around 30 minutes.
If it has not changed at hat time then there is something wrong with the gearing if you can hear sounds from it.

[West83]

For cleaning eyepieces and optics, a rocket bulb blower to blow off loose dust.

Thanks for the tip, I was planning on using the compressed air pump, but this seems much more delicate and probably better.

You are only going to clean the mirrors of the telescope when they become dirty and unless it is tree sap, spiderwebs or a mouse has died in the tube you will be cleaning it once every 1 to 2 years.
It takes a lot of dust to affect the views.
Many people use Zeiss wipes and cleaning fluid, some of the best available.

Its actually been 2 years and a bit since I bought it, and honestly I think I saw some dots n the primary last time I was trying to collimate, and secondary also had some spots. I will clean the secondary for sure, but with primary I wanted to use the chance when Im finally brave enough to put the center mark on. Any good advice on what to stick to the center, I read somewhere that "electricians tape" which we call isolating tape here is a good fit.

The focuser tube on a Newtonian is open and depending on viewing angle, stray light can enter the tube and reflect into the focuser tube and your eye.

Oh I see, great thanks for the advice, will give it a try.

As for the motor it came with the scope and the mount:
https://www.celestron.com/products/astr ... otor-drive

[Lady Fraktor]

Paper reinforcment circles are very good to use, the tape you mean can come unglued over time leaving sticky residue on your mirror.
Personally I would not use the tape.

s-l300.jpg (14.7 KiB) Viewed 4147 times

[West83]

Hi West,
Welcome to TSS.

Collimation
I have owned a 6"f7 reflector for a bit over 40 years and I have never needed a laser to collimate it. I do have a laser to collimate my 18 inch telescope but that is much more of a necessity because it is so big and so that I can stand at the back of the scope and see the projected collimation spot 2 meters away at the eyepiece otherwise it is a 2 person job. But a small scope can be collimated easily by eye without a collimator.

The Astrobaby collimation guide Gabby linked is very comprehensive but so comprehensive it can be intimidating. Collimation is a pretty simple process.

Does your scope have finger adjustable knobs or does it require tools? If it is finger adjustable knobs, then you can skip the laser collimator until you learn to collimate it. I can reach the collimation knobs of the smaller 6" scope while looking through the eyepiece.

Hi OzEclipe, and thank you for the warm welcome and the help. My scope has easily adjustable knobs, so I can do it with my fingers. So I am taking your advice and leaving the laser collimating for a different time (a shame I spent 50€ on the laser, might have bought something more useful. I will have to get the collimating cap, which was not included in the bundle, I hear it helps a great deal.

1. With you eye well back from the focus tube sight down and check that the mirror is reasonably centred in the focuser tube.
2. Centre your eye in the focuser, adjust the secondary holder knobs until you see your eye centred in the secondary mirror.
3. Adjust the primary mirror cell so that the outline of secondary mirror is centered in the field of view.
If either of these were way out of adjustment, repeat the cycle 2 & 3 one or possibly two more times.

You'll soon learn by trial and error.

I actually tried it and I agree with you I got better results than trying to do it with laser, I just need to know what is the best starting point for the secondary mirror, with the screws snug in or lose? And I noticed my secondary tends to rotate around its axis when I adjust the screws. Any tip regarding that? And another question, do I need the center mark on the primary if I decide to collimate by eyeballing it?

RA motor
Are you sure it is not working? You say there is sound and lights so this suggests it is working. The gear at the output of an RA drive motor will only make one revolution every 8-10 minutes, the motion is not really noticeable to the eye. I am not sure what the gear ratio is so I can't tell you the exact period for the revolution. Mark the gear with a marker pen and check for movement after 2 minutes.

Make sure the scope is balanced before attempting to use the motor. Motor drives don't have a lot of torque and will either stall a motor or worse, strip a gear if overstressed. These motor drives are not very expensive and may be cheaper to replace rather than send for repair.

It sounds like it's working, but I didn't notice the turn, which of course I couldn't since it turns so slowly. I even read somewhere while searching for a solution that it makes a full revolution in more than 12h. Which seems a lot.

Thanks for the write up and clear skies to you as well!

[West83]

Update:

yep the motor is malfunctioning... It hasnt moved in more than 30 minutes. Too bad, really don't see myself shelling out additional 55€ for a new one.. Will try to get it repaired though.

[OzEclipse]

Hi OzEclipe, and thank you for the warm welcome and the help. My scope has easily adjustable knobs, so I can do it with my fingers. So I am taking your advice and leaving the laser collimating for a different time (a shame I spent 50€ on the laser, might have bought something more useful. I will have to get the collimating cap, which was not included in the bundle, I hear it helps a great deal.


I actually tried it and I agree with you I got better results than trying to do it with laser, I just need to know what is the best starting point for the secondary mirror, with the screws snug in or lose? And I noticed my secondary tends to rotate around its axis when I adjust the screws. Any tip regarding that? And another question, do I need the center mark on the primary if I decide to collimate by eyeballing it?

RA motor
Are you sure it is not working? You say there is sound and lights so this suggests it is working. The gear at the output of an RA drive motor will only make one revolution every 8-10 minutes, the motion is not really noticeable to the eye. I am not sure what the gear ratio is so I can't tell you the exact period for the revolution. Mark the gear with a marker pen and check for movement after 2 minutes.

Make sure the scope is balanced before attempting to use the motor. Motor drives don't have a lot of torque and will either stall a motor or worse, strip a gear if overstressed. These motor drives are not very expensive and may be cheaper to replace rather than send for repair.

It sounds like it's working, but I didn't notice the turn, which of course I couldn't since it turns so slowly. I even read somewhere while searching for a solution that it makes a full revolution in more than 12h. Which seems a lot.

Thanks for the write up and clear skies to you as well!

When collimating, start with the secondary screws snug after you have rotated the secondary towards the focuser tube. Most secondaries have a centre retaining screw and then float on three radial push screws. Adjust by gently tightening one, and then gently loosening another but keep it all tight not flopping around.

Nothing special about a collimating cap. You can cut a piece of cardboard that fits in the end of the tube with a centre hole. Does the same job. On my 6" reflector, I've always found using my eye centred in the focuser easier than using a cap.

I think that your mount probably has a 100 tooth worm gear so the drive motor should turn once per 14.4 minutes. Definitely not 12 hours, that's impossible otherwise your worm gear would need to have just 2 teeth, maybe they mistyped and meant 12 mins which is a 120 tooth wheel.

The gear drive shaft has to turn at a rate which is number of minutes per day ÷ number of worm gear teeth.
There are 1440 minutes in one 24hr day or to be more accurate 23hr56m4.1s in one siderial day.

1440/96 Teeth = 15 minutes
1440/100 Teeth = 14.4 minutes <= This is yours
1440/120 Teeth = 12 minutes
1440/144 Teeth = 10minutes
1440/180 Teeth = 8 minutes

Joe

[Ylem]

I would hold off on filters. Maybe get a Moon filter if you want
Try increasing the magnification on the moon that will dim it some.

Also don't fret too much over collimation, it can drive you crazy.

Also periodically make sure all the bolts are tight on the mount, they tend to loosen up.

Best thing is to just relax and enjoy yourself

[West83]

[mention]OzEclipse[/mention]

Thanks for the tip, I made my own collimator cap ) The motor is currently at the repair shop, I hope they might get it back to work.

[mention]Ylem[/mention]

Thanks for the advice, I decided not to buy color or ND filters, and actually bought the Baader M&S which will be my only filter for some time, next when I get more experience I will probably look into deep sky/nebula filters. Heard much good about it so hope it will be worth it on the long run.

I am now about to order the AccuFocuser from astroshop, and would like to buy a cleaning set, so I looked at the options they offer. I would feel comfortable with an up to 20€ investment for this but the good ones seem to be north of 35€. Any tips for this? Please keep in mind that I really want to clean my primary mirror when I will be center spotting it. And would like to use the proper cleaning set for that.

Also a quick question regarding flocking. I read many posts regarding it, but hard to see if its really worth it at this point, so any insight is highly appreciated.

Thank you all for being so kind and answering these beginner questions:)

[Lady Fraktor]

If you are trying to get the most out of a telescope the flocking makes a good difference.
The paint they use reflects light around the tube and the more you can darken/ trap light from reflecting around down to the mirror then back to your eye.

[West83]

I was weighing and then totally forgot about it, already ordered some things from FLO, wish I ordered the flocking material as well

I am quite bummed out I didn't order it, so that I could flock it when I will be adding all the modifications..
Thank you Gabrielle, I will keep it in mind!

[West83]

Actually I might have found some in the local shop (will shave the 14€ shipping if I get this).

It has to be black velour right? Is it possible that this might do the trick, the price is the same as on the FLO website:
https://www.svetdekorja.si/folije/samol ... -crna.html

It's self adhesive and black velour. I will go to check it in person, so any pointer as to what I should be looking at will be appreciated

[Lady Fraktor]

Interesting, I have never used that before.
Hopefully it will work.
I would just do the top half of the tube first to see how it is.
Before you install it give it a rub to make sure it does not shed. You do not want a bunch of black fluff settling on your mirror.