Orange zone -vs- location for viewing question

[Buckethead 2.0]

Hi all,

I'm not a complete newbie, but I have been out of the loop for a while. I plan to get the best binos i can afford. I live in an Orange Bortles(?) Zone, and there is a very small hill nearby. But you can get above all the trees in the whole area. Would the light from the city wash out my view still, or would getting above the streetlights help a lot? Should i just get cheaper binos until i know for sure? Probably, huh? Thanks.

~Buckethead 2.0 (but anyone may call me Eric if you like)

[JayTee]

Hi Eric,

I always recommend these binos when folks ask about an inexpensive pair because I own them and they work great and they are very inexpensive and collimatable should the need arise.
https://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Falcon- ... B000051ZOA


Cheers,
JT

[Don Quixote]

Hi Eric.
I am ignorant as to suggestions for urban observing as I live in the country, but binoculars have always been important tools for me.
The suggestion JT has made sounds good to me.
Clear skies to you!

[helicon]

Hi Eric. LIke JT I have a pair of Bushnell 10x50's. They are an old hand-me-down I got from my parents years ago. Still work great, and I don't know how old they are actually.

[Buckethead 2.0]

I had a pair of 10x50s a couple years ago, but then I stepped out of the hobby for a bit and unloaded some stuff. Good news is, I still have my observing chair like Bryan's! Thanks guys, I just put a pair in my Amazon cart. Oh! And I still have all my astronomy books I bought too.

[SkyHiker]

Your plan was right. Get the best binos you can afford, after the cheap ones that are now coming to you! Get 45 or preferably 90 degree semi Apos 25x100 so you can use a regular tripod, they are not super expensive, about $1K at the German store for instance https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/in ... fnung.html. I looked through a pair of 25x100 Fujinons at the RTMC and that was the best wide field of the whole show. Good binos compete with the best scopes.

Disclaimer: I never looked through the ones in the link but am just fantasizing about them. I have 20x80 Celestron Skymasters that are very affordable and quite good for the money. I have some doubts about the actual diameter of those 90 degree binos but willing to take the chance if I didn't have more stuff than I can justify.

[kt4hx]

Eric, others have talked about the binoculars, I will talk about the environment you are in and your initial question. Staying in the same location, but being higher (on a hill) above the streetlights will do little for you. The reason is that the light that causes you to be in an orange zone is that which spreads outward and upward. Unless the streetlights are properly shielded to direct all light downwards, then their light is indeed moving out and up. So just getting yourself a few feet higher will not really do much for you with regard to overall sky glow conditions. Shielding yourself from their direct light will help you achieve and maintain better dark adaption and thus yield better contrast through the eyepiece(s), but the greater problem of the glow projected into the sky remains. The only way to change that is to remover yourself farther from the population centers so that the inherent glow is reduced.

For example, I also live in an orange zone. On the normal average night, based on the Bortle scale descriptions, I call it a level 5. However, on poor nights it can rate a Bortle 6 or even worse - particularly in summer. Our dark site, which falls just inside of a blue zone from a gray zone, averages a Bortle 3 and sometimes closer to Bortle 2. But on poor nights it can indeed drop to a Bortle 4 and close to 5 on really bad nights. But because of its location far from population centers, even on poorer nights there, I can still see much more than at home because the sky glow is far, far less. Hope that helps.

[pakarinen]

Moisture and dust / particles in the air scatter light pollution to some extent as well.

[Buckethead 2.0]

Eric, others have talked about the binoculars, I will talk about the environment you are in and your initial question. Staying in the same location, but being higher (on a hill) above the streetlights will do little for you. The reason is that the light that causes you to be in an orange zone is that which spreads outward and upward. Unless the streetlights are properly shielded to direct all light downwards, then their light is indeed moving out and up. So just getting yourself a few feet higher will not really do much for you with regard to overall sky glow conditions. Shielding yourself from their direct light will help you achieve and maintain better dark adaption and thus yield better contrast through the eyepiece(s), but the greater problem of the glow projected into the sky remains. The only way to change that is to remover yourself farther from the population centers so that the inherent glow is reduced.

For example, I also live in an orange zone. On the normal average night, based on the Bortle scale descriptions, I call it a level 5. However, on poor nights it can rate a Bortle 6 or even worse - particularly in summer. Our dark site, which falls just inside of a blue zone from a gray zone, averages a Bortle 3 and sometimes closer to Bortle 2. But on poor nights it can indeed drop to a Bortle 4 and close to 5 on really bad nights. But because of its location far from population centers, even on poorer nights there, I can still see much more than at home because the sky glow is far, far less. Hope that helps.

It absolutely does, thank you Alan!

[Buckethead 2.0]

Your plan was right. Get the best binos you can afford, after the cheap ones that are now coming to you! Get 45 or preferably 90 degree semi Apos 25x100 so you can use a regular tripod, they are not super expensive, about $1K at the German store for instance https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/in ... fnung.html. I looked through a pair of 25x100 Fujinons at the RTMC and that was the best wide field of the whole show. Good binos compete with the best scopes.

Disclaimer: I never looked through the ones in the link but am just fantasizing about them. I have 20x80 Celestron Skymasters that are very affordable and quite good for the money. I have some doubts about the actual diameter of those 90 degree binos but willing to take the chance if I didn't have more stuff than I can justify.

Thank you, Henk!

[russmax]

I'm going to second what Alan (kt4hx) said. An open hill in the Bortle 8 city will not be a good place to do astronomy. You would be better to find an area surrounded by trees which would at least block your eyes and views from direct paths of city light. You will lose a bit of sky, but get better views of the sky you can see.

I have also found that quality telescopes and binoculars will surprise you with how much you will be able to view. Will you be able to see other galaxies or dim nebulae? Probably not. But planets, brighter nebulae and binaries will be viewable and impressive.

--Russmax

[Buckethead 2.0]

I'm going to second what Alan (kt4hx) said. An open hill in the Bortle 8 city will not be a good place to do astronomy. You would be better to find an area surrounded by trees which would at least block your eyes and views from direct paths of city light. You will lose a bit of sky, but get better views of the sky you can see.

I have also found that quality telescopes and binoculars will surprise you with how much you will be able to view. Will you be able to see other galaxies or dim nebulae? Probably not. But planets, brighter nebulae and binaries will be viewable and impressive.

--Russmax

Yes, thanks Russmax. I sort of have an idea what binos can do. I had a pair of 10x50 a while back. Well, it's not a biggy to go somewhere else if need be. It really isn't too bad at my house, except for a streetlight about 75 feet away, but it looks so bright like the mothership is landing.

[Bigzmey]

Good move to get 10x50 Eric. I live in the orange zone and on a moonless night I could pick quite few brighter DSOs even with small binos.

If you are not in a harry scan your local and online classifieds, Goodwill etc. All binos in my collection were bought used, pennies on a dollar.

[Buckethead 2.0]

Good move to get 10x50 Eric. I live in the orange zone and on a moonless night I could pick quite few brighter DSOs even with small binos.

If you are not in a harry scan your local and online classifieds, Goodwill etc. All binos in my collection were bought used, pennies on a dollar.

Thanks Bigzmey for the encouragement and suggestions!