Recommendations, for impossible to meet criteria

[Sky Tinker]

I can see that you're a big fan of Amici-prisms.

"I don't see the disadvantage in a smaller aperture diagonal for viewing bright planetary objects or the Moon."

The views of the smaller, brighter objects appear rather compromised via my cheaper GSO 90° Amici. Perhaps I'll take an afocal-shot of the effect some day.

"What design and manufacturing difficulties are there exactly with larger Amicis?"

Apparently, the manufacturers can make a cheap star-prism with a large aperture, but not a cheap Amici-prism with a large aperture. Then, there's that pesky Amici-line. Hopefully that is improved as the cost goes up.

"It is impossible to totally eliminate the spike but I've never seen it viewing the Moon even with a poorly constructed prism."

The Moon is bright, but it is not a small object; not nearly as small as a planet. I had said nothing about the Moon in that regard, as you won't see an Amici-line whilst viewing the Moon.

"The 90º WO Amici..."

Alas, I would never suggest Amici-prisms for celestial observations. However, this one might show hope and promise...



...no Amici-line, whatsoever. That's the only one I would consider for use at night; that is, if I wanted the views to match the orientations of my maps and charts. But for myself, it has never been a desire or need.

[Shorty Barlow]

I can see that you're a big fan of Amici-prisms.

"I don't see the disadvantage in a smaller aperture diagonal for viewing bright planetary objects or the Moon."

The views of the smaller, brighter objects appear rather compromised via my cheaper GSO 90° Amici. Perhaps I'll take an afocal-shot of the effect some day.

"What design and manufacturing difficulties are there exactly with larger Amicis?"

Apparently, the manufacturers can make a cheap star-prism with a large aperture, but not a cheap Amici-prism with a large aperture. Then, there's that pesky Amici-line. Hopefully that is improved as the cost goes up.

"It is impossible to totally eliminate the spike but I've never seen it viewing the Moon even with a poorly constructed prism."

The Moon is bright, but it is not a small object; not nearly as small as a planet. I had said nothing about the Moon in that regard, as you won't see an Amici-line whilst viewing the Moon.

"The 90º WO Amici..."

Alas, I would never suggest Amici-prisms for celestial observations. However, this one might show hope and promise...



...no Amici-line, whatsoever. That's the only one I would consider for use at night; that is, if I wanted the views to match the orientations of my maps and charts. But for myself, it has never been a desire or need.

I've used Amici prisms long enough to realise much of what's written about them is basically bollocks. The less expensive ones are pretty good for rich field. Times have changed.

https://www.telescope.com/The-Advantage ... 106656.uts

I'm with Roger Ivester on this, and his 'Orion' diagonal is undoubtedly Synta in origin. He sums it up pretty well.

Apparently, the manufacturers can make a cheap star-prism with a large aperture, but not a cheap Amici-prism with a large aperture.

Yeah, it's a mystery to me as well. My guess is that it's a legacy from the days when Amici prisms were only really intended for white light viewing.

I've seen other versions of the pentaprisms, I haven't used one yet. It might be interesting to compare them with my Baader Zeiss and APM Amici prisms. They appear a bit bulky, probably won't fit in my bino box though lol.

[notFritzArgelander]

I never use an erecting prism at night. To much light loss in a long optical path. When I DO need an erect image for terrestrial viewing, this one is good enough for my purposes.

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Orion-1 ... p/7216.uts

I can't comment on the other alternatives since I've neither used nor needed them.

[Sky Tinker]

"I've used Amici prisms long enough to realise much of what's written about them is basically bollocks."

All I have is my personal experience. In the case of my GSO 90°, which, incidentally, appears identical to Roger Ivester's Orion 90°, there wasn't a streak jutting out quite as much as with a 45°, but rather the center of the image was smeared, and no doubt caused by its Amici-line...

Undoubtedly, Ivester's Orion is in possession of one of those, too.

Back and forth I had swapped it with an equally-cheap Celestron star-prism. The experience was most revealing.

In any event, the OP is wanting a 45° Amici for daytime-terrestrial use. Although, I suppose a 90° might be used during the day, and for spying on a bird's nest perched atop a California redwood.

[Sky Tinker]

It's interesting how the Orion 45° Amici looks a lot like this Meade, and for much less outlay...

https://agenaastro.com/meade-928-1-25-4 ... prism.html

But with either one of those, I would expect vignetting with at least a 32mmm Plossl.

[OldGaot]

Well, I think I'm thoroughly confused with respect to the accessories. I HAVE to get an image inverter or I will never hear the end of it when my wife looks through it! But I now have no idea which one I should get. I am definitely thinking the 32mm plossel and zoom make a whole lot of sense... I will refrain from opining on the various flavors of Unix (been there heard that)

[Shorty Barlow]

"I've used Amici prisms long enough to realise much of what's written about them is basically bollocks."

All I have is my personal experience. In the case of my GSO 90°, which, incidentally, appears identical to Roger Ivester's Orion 90°, there wasn't a streak jutting out quite as much as with a 45°, but rather the center of the image was smeared, and no doubt caused by its Amici-line...

GSO Amici line.jpg

Undoubtedly, Ivester's Orion is in possession of one of those, too.

Back and forth I had swapped it with an equally-cheap Celestron star-prism. The experience was most revealing.

In any event, the OP is wanting a 45° Amici for daytime-terrestrial use. Although, I suppose a 90° might be used during the day, and for spying on a bird's nest perched atop a California redwood.

There's probable QC variation, but the only lemon I have is the Antares. I have several of the WO helicals, old and new style, and they are very good. I have some of the Omegon as well, good sized prisms with no adverse visuals, apart from the occasional hint of a diffraction spike. The APM and Baader Zeiss are in a class of their own. I've never seen vignetting with an Amici, As I said, most of what I've read (mostly bollocks) doesn't correspond with what I've actually experienced. YMMV.

[russmax]

OldGaot,
Don't get distracted by the out-loud scribblings of old astronomy guys who have too much gear.
The Williams Optics 45 deg prism is the one you want for terrestrial use. I bet you end up using it a lot for night sky viewing, as well.

I have some ideas about which telescope would work best for you, but frankly, I think the 127 Maksutov you've chosen will make you happy. You are afraid of making the wrong choice, but there are only a few wrong choices and a bunch of right ones.

To prevent a repeat of the bad telescope experience of your youth, do this. Sight your finderscope during the day on a distant terrestrial object. Adjust it until what you see in the finderscope is what you see in the main telescope. With that Mak, you will be amazed at the magnification you get.

--Russmax

[Sky Tinker]

Well, I think I'm thoroughly confused with respect to the accessories. I HAVE to get an image inverter or I will never hear the end of it when my wife looks through it! But I now have no idea which one I should get. I am definitely thinking the 32mm plossel and zoom make a whole lot of sense... I will refrain from opining on the various flavors of Unix (been there heard that)

There's the barlow, but with the long focal-length of the Orion Maksutov you may want only a 2x, or you may just want to skip it altogether. A barlow is a multiplier. If you have a 16mm(96x) eyepiece, you can place it into a 2x-barlow, then both of those into the diagonal, and get an effective 8mm(193x). The Orion Maksutov has a focal-length of 1540mm. At this point, I don't think you'd need one, but I wanted to make mention of it nonetheless.

I have three, good barlows...

barlows2.jpg (28.58 KiB) Viewed 2940 times

...but I use them with telescopes with much shorter focal-lengths. I don't anticipate using them with my ES 127mm Maksutov, particularly given its whopping 1900mm focal-length.

I had gotten a very nice, absorptive dew-shield for my Maksutov, branded "Farpoint". Here is the telescope with and without...

I had gotten this one from Farpoint... https://farpointastro.com/shop/farpoint ... 5-5se-sct/

It's for a Celestron 5" Schmidt, yet it fit my Maksutov perfectly. The diameter of my own is 5 13/16". That of the Orion is 5 11/16"; a difference of only 1/8", and therefore negligible. You can go ahead and get that one. It's really nice...

I had gotten mine back in August, and the shipping was free; can't beat that.

[Shorty Barlow]

I definitely agree a Barlow is of little use on a 127mm Synta Mak.

[JayTee]

Dear John, (I've always wanted to write one of these!)

You should have figured out by now that these guys will tell you how to build a clock when all you did was ask, "What time is it?"

You know that any optical instrument you purchase will have certain compromises you must make, some more, some less. You know what you need to do. So it is time to either vomit or walk away from the toilet!

No matter what you purchase, we will still be here to answer any follow on questions you may have, but the ball is in your court.

We are here for the long haul for you! It is time my friend! You can do this!

Cheers,
JT

[notFritzArgelander]

Well, I think I'm thoroughly confused with respect to the accessories. I HAVE to get an image inverter or I will never hear the end of it when my wife looks through it! But I now have no idea which one I should get. I am definitely thinking the 32mm plossel and zoom make a whole lot of sense... I will refrain from opining on the various flavors of Unix (been there heard that)

Just get a simple 45 degree erect image prism. They're almost all made by Synta and work fine as long as you don't go too low power. It'll be ok with the eyepieces that come supplied. After you get experience of your own you can decide if you really need to lay out big bucks on lower power eyepieces and a dance erecting pentaprism.

For now it's good enough and our well intentioned overly complicated advice is just confusing things.

Thanks for not contributing to the UNIX religious wars BTW.

[notFritzArgelander]

Dear John, (I've always wanted to write one of these!)

You should have figured out by now that these guys will tell you how to build a clock when all you did was ask, "What time is it?"

You know that any optical instrument you purchase will have certain compromises you must make, some more, some less. You know what you need to do. So it is time to either vomit or walk away from the toilet!

No matter what you purchase, we will still be here to answer any follow on questions you may have, but the ball is in your court.

We are here for the long haul for you! It is time my friend! You can do this!

Cheers,
JT

Perfection is the enemy of good enough and I fear that we've gone overboard gilding this lily.

[Sky Tinker]

The OP had stated, "I'd like a scope or binos that I can use for terrestrial viewing most of the time. However, I would also like to be able to do a bit of astronomy. Call it 80/20."

A BK7 prism...

https://agenaastro.com/meade-928-1-25-4 ... prism.html

A BAK4 prism...

https://agenaastro.com/william-optics-1 ... gonal.html

There are no middling units at $40, $50, $60, or $70, to be had.

[Sky Tinker]

Given the Maksutov's long focal-length, and predominately narrower views, there is the option of adding an 80mm f/5 achromat, and as a low-power, wide-field accessory...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... psQAvD_BwE

[OldGaot]

OldGaot,
Don't get distracted by the out-loud scribblings of old astronomy guys who have too much gear.
The Williams Optics 45 deg prism is the one you want for terrestrial use. I bet you end up using it a lot for night sky viewing, as well.

I have some ideas about which telescope would work best for you, but frankly, I think the 127 Maksutov you've chosen will make you happy. You are afraid of making the wrong choice, but there are only a few wrong choices and a bunch of right ones.

To prevent a repeat of the bad telescope experience of your youth, do this. Sight your finderscope during the day on a distant terrestrial object. Adjust it until what you see in the finderscope is what you see in the main telescope. With that Mak, you will be amazed at the magnification you get.

--Russmax

Thanks for the advice. Per the first sentence of my first post: "have hit the point of realization that no matter what I decide, it will be wrong" While said somewhat in cheek, this is one of those things where it is impossible to know what the right answer is since I don't have enough real about how I will actually use it to make an educated decision. Anyhow, greatly appreciate the confirmation on the Williams

[OldGaot]

Dear John, (I've always wanted to write one of these!)

You should have figured out by now that these guys will tell you how to build a clock when all you did was ask, "What time is it?"

You know that any optical instrument you purchase will have certain compromises you must make, some more, some less. You know what you need to do. So it is time to either vomit or walk away from the toilet!

No matter what you purchase, we will still be here to answer any follow on questions you may have, but the ball is in your court.

We are here for the long haul for you! It is time my friend! You can do this!

Cheers,
JT

Boy, this really, really hurts to say, since your desire to write a Dear John note has apparently been on your bucket-list. Alas, my name is not John (my e-mail address starts with the first four letters of my last name)

I agree that compromises will be made. Just gotta hold your nose and jump into the pond. (Your saying reminds me of one of my father's; although, he was a bit more succinct : "SH%T or get off the pot!" )

[OldGaot]

Sky Tinker...thanks for the recommendation on the dew shield.

[Lady Fraktor]

I am sure you will be quite happy with the telescope and mount you choose.
The nice thing now is there is a community to help you get the most from it now.
I am looking forward to your new telescopes arrival and thoughts on it.

[OldGaot]

Well the deed is done. If I don't like it, I blame y'all!
I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions and need lots of help...you look through the small end, right?
Thanks for everyone's help