recommendations for high light pollution, visual

[N6GQ]

Hey all, I'm new to a lot of this, revisiting some of what I learned 30+ years ago and learning a lot of new stuff along the way.

I live in a Bortle 6 zone. Residential area. I think I'd get the most out of having something to use in my back yard. I have a Nexstar 6SE that I have been having fun with, and an old home brew 10" newtonian/dobsonian that has seen better days. I am putting together plans now to build out my astrophotography capability but honestly I think I'd have more fun just with visual. So I'm wondering what I should start to look for in terms of good visual capabilities in this Bortle 6 zone for best viewing of DSOs and galaxies?

Someone near me has a Skywatcher 12" Flextube Synscan in good condition at a good price. I know its pretty large/heavy/bulky but if it were for home use then that would be ok. For the Bortle 6 zone, would a large dobsonian reflector be my best bet? Are there any advantages to a refractor in the high LP areas for DSOs?

Thanks for the guidance!

[helicon]

My experience is that even with moderate light pollution you will be better off the larger aperture you have to observe DSOs. There is some point where there are diminishing returns, but it's true that fainter objects will appear brighter in general, and you will be able to probe further into the universe. For example, I can see M1 (Crab Nebula) in my 6" scope, but the view is much brighter in my 10". Also, I am able to see a decent amount of the NGC galaxies with my ten inch, but with the 6", not so much. My light pollution is between Bortle 6-7. Of course, it's also true the 6" scope would perform better at a dark sky site than a 10" from a light-polluted backyard.

Of course, one must keep in mind that objects of low surface brightness are difficult to observe from the backyard, such as M33 and M101, both lower surface brightness objects. Hence, some galaxies that are fainter than M33 and M101 will actually be easier to see because the light emanating from them is more condensed. With planets, light pollution makes no difference, so you are good there.

[N6GQ]

[mention]helicon[/mention] thank you for your thoughts, much appreciated!

[JayTee]

Is your 10" Newt refurbishable? I repurposed my 8" Newt (home built in 1972) and put it on a new Dob mount and now it sees quite a bit of use. There is not a lot of difference between a 10 and 12" Newt of roughly the same f ratio. Maybe you're just "Jonesing" for a new scope, and I can't say that I blame you. Just remember that your best scope is the one you will actually use!

Cheers,
JT

[N6GQ]

Is your 10" Newt refurbishable? I repurposed my 8" Newt (home built in 1972) and put on a new Dob mount and now it sees quite a bit of use. There is not a lot of difference between a 10 and 12" Newt of roughly the same f ratio. Maybe you're just "Jonesing" for a new scope, and I can't say that I blame you. Just remember that your best scope is the one you will actually use!

Cheers,
JT

[mention]JayTee[/mention] my old newt has no adjustments on the secondary to collimate. Not sure how it was originally done. But I must admit, there is a good deal of jonesing as you put it for sure, and ya, kind of have a hole burning in my pocket I was out tonight doing some photography to see how I like that. Its kinda fun too but I think where I am is SO light polluted that its going to be pretty tough to do much at all from my residential back yard unless I can convince my neighbors to turn off their floodlights

[Bigzmey]

For the light polluted backyard aperture is the most deciding factor for DSOs. If you can get 12" for a good price locally that could be a good move. It will give you ~40% increase in light-gathering over 10", not revolutionary but quite noticeable. You will also likely get improvement in sharpness and contrast over your home made DOB.

[10538]

Hello N6GQ! I’m in the camp of “Bigger is Better” Since your 10” is going to take some cash to bring it up to snuff and even then it may be only wishful thinking I would go with a 12” Dob. You can put together some light baffles with a PVC frame and a tarp and you would be surprised at how much you’re going to see with the 12” Dob. You could also pretty easily make a cart or dolly to roll the scope out to your viewing area without having to assemble and then break it down for each session. Many Messiers are visible even in bright moonlight and your view of Jupiter and Saturn will be amazing. I’m a hard core visual guy and love every minute of it! Good luck with whatever you decide to do! :twocents:

[Richard]

Yes unfortunately we almost all have to put up with LP and its not getting better with LED lights all over the place they have virtually killed my observing at home , I dont think even a 12inch will solve my problem , I used to see quite a lot with a 8 Inch but the last 2 years has been bad , I see Sirius , Canapus , even the stars of orion are hard to see , and the Souther cross has almost gone quite sad, I did try AP , using Short exposures with a 80mm WO , was ok but not for me. We have a share in a friends game farm so I have moved my scopes there , only kept my 150 Mak here for the occasional look at planets
I could try and get a 18inch but it would not be used much they are just too big one needs an observatory for that and with all the trees etc would not work
The sky is so dark at the farm , we only have solar/battery power there that I sometimes get confused just so many stars all bright , problem is the farm is 340km away

[pakarinen]

I'm in a B8 and use 2 fracs (80mm and 120mm) at home for DSO observing. But it depends on the DSO. Open clusters are good to great, some globs are decent but many are faint itty-bitty fuzzballs. A few brighter galaxies are ok, but M33 for example is nowhere to be seen. Brighter emission and reflection nebulas are ok to pretty good, but M78 is not visible.

The positive side is that I can carry my scopes onto my deck one-handed and I'm observing in a few minutes. Plus they're light enough that I can take them to a dark(er) site pretty easily.

I'm not sure I'd want a big Dob myself just because of the bulk and need for storage space. But maybe someday...

[GCoyote]

I'm in a B8 and use 2 fracs (80mm and 120mm) at home for DSO observing. But it depends on the DSO. Open clusters are good to great, some globs are decent but many are faint itty-bitty fuzzballs. A few brighter galaxies are ok, but M33 for example is nowhere to be seen. Brighter emission and reflection nebulas are ok to pretty good, but M78 is not visible.

The positive side is that I can carry my scopes onto my deck one-handed and I'm observing in a few minutes. Plus they're light enough that I can take them to a dark(er) site pretty easily.

I'm not sure I'd want a big Dob myself just because of the bulk and need for storage space. But maybe someday...

We hope to retire to a small farm in SW Michigan in few more years going from B8 Maryland to fireflies as observing companions. Some day.

[Gfamily]

A lot of people enjoy observing and trying to split interesting doubles and binary stars as their observation can be less affected by LP.
I understand that these are often best hunted down with a good refractor - and it doesn't need to be huge as they will often take more magnification than the usual rules of thumb allow.

[helicon]

A lot of people enjoy observing and trying to split interesting doubles and binary stars as their observation can be less affected by LP.
I understand that these are often best hunted down with a good refractor - and it doesn't need to be huge as they will often take more magnification than the usual rules of thumb allow.

I enjoy doubles with my frac at around 120x - you are correct, they are seldom impacted by light pollution.

[Lowjiber]

I live less than two miles, as the crow flies, from the supernova known as the Las Vegas Strip... one of the brightest places in the world. After moving here from a super-dark site in northern California, I bought "the bible" of urban observing... "The Urban Astronomer's Guide", by Rod Mollise.

Read that book and then read it again. It will change your life.

To quote Uncle Rod, "In the city, aperture always wins." Throw that old dob away and buy at least a new, adjustable 10" dob and keep it collimated.

Build the light shields from PVC pipe and tarps from Harbor Freight... as mentioned above.

Pick your spots. By that I mean don't go dim galaxy hunting when the moon is in the sky, and make a concerted effort to attack a target when it is close to Zenith. Plan your sessions!

Like most, I have every piece of target acquisition software there is, from Stellarium to StarTools. However, a simple planisphere is an awesome tool to determine what targets will be available during the seasons, etc.

Reduce your expectations. If you've ever been to a truly dark site to observe, don't think that dim galaxy is going to pop out in the city... it won't. You'll still be able to see it when everything is just right though.

To be a truly successful urban astronomer, you need to have a nazi-like attitude. Over the last three years, I've found niney-two Messier objects in my backyard by the pool. Speaking of pools, if you have any cute little decorative lights anywhere in the backyard, do this... Buy a bunch of Home Depot buckets, one for each stinking light, and paint them black on the inside. Cover each light. A good wife is important to the urban astronomer.

Now, read that darn book for the third time.

Clear, Dark Skies

BTW: It is so bright in my backyard that I can read the date on a copper penny held in the palm of my hand.

[Ylem]

I can tell you one thing I have learned with high LP.

I have learned to love the Moon
I spend a lot of time mapping it.

[pakarinen]

Build the light shields from PVC pipe and tarps from Harbor Freight

I built mine with black shower curtains. About $12 each from Amazon. Possibly quieter than tarps if the wind picks up, but they do have to be weighed down in a strong breeze. I use spring clamps from HF to weigh them down.

I'll have to check out Uncle Rod's book.