What to expect given my first night of results

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starguru
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What to expect given my first night of results

#1

Post by starguru »


So I started another thread looking for suggestions for 1-2k scope. I appreciate all the replies I got there. One of the recommendations was to buy a starter scope, which ultimately I ended up doing -- I got a 102mm refractor. My reasons for doing this was to basically get a sense of what I could see given my questionable light situation, if I wanted to upgrade this cheap scope would serve wildlife duty for the family.

One of the light pollution web sites has me at Bortle 5, but there are some really bright lights in my neighborhood, so if that affects the bortle rating I must have been at a 6-7.

So anyway, moon was up, and the first thing I looked at. I was immediately hooked, never seen the moon like that before. Even though I've seen pictures, it doesn't compare to watching it live. When it got darker I spent some time on Orion. It took me about 10 seconds to zero in on the nebula; I did a double take not sure if I was actually seeing it right. I couldn't believe it. However, unlike pictures you see the nebula was really faint, almost ephemeral. Increasing magnification didn't help. But it was awesome none the less.

I was also amazed at how many stars I could see thru the scope that weren't visible in the sky.

Next I tried to find Andromeda. I could easily identify Casseopeia, but had a really difficult time finding Andromeda. I spent about 30 minutes slowly adjusting back and forth, up and down. Tried different magnifications. I was about to give up, when suddenly it popped into view. I almost couldn't see it it was so faint, which suprised me given that it is sometimes visible to the naked eye (although I've never seen it that way). It really just looked like a very faint, diffuse smudge. I couldn't get the focus right, and lost it, and was freezing by that point, so gave up. I should mention that I had to position my telescope in the driveway, where the neighborhood light is really apparent. For M42, I was behind the house, which blocked most of the direct light.

So that's a cheap 102mm refractor, and an almost full moon night.

So if I got, say an 8" SCT, what could I expect in terms of brightness? What if I went with a 120 or 150 refractor? How much brighter would the views be? How much does the 3/4 full moon affect the view?

Also, one thing that struck me was with the 102 I could literally pick it and the mount up with one hand and carry it around the house. How valuable is that for this hobby?

Thanks!
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#2

Post by sdbodin »


Firstly, try a night with no moon. You will gain as much as going to that 8" scope with regards to those 'faint fuzzies'. But, remember, those are really 'faint fuzzies', those pretty pictures are hours of exposure, no matter how hard you try, you cannot duplicate that with the eye that takes a 'picture' about 20 times a second. Light is measured in photo flux, more time means more photons striking the sensor, only a much bigger scope or camera can do this.

However, much can be seen with a 4" scope, I have packed my little Meade under many an airline seat and gone with it to dark sites and always be satisfied with the new views, especially down under.

Clear skies,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#3

Post by russmax »


That's what I did, too! Check out the scopes in my signature. The 102 mm was so much better than I expected, but I wanted more. I'm waiting for a moonless night out in the wilderness to see Andromeda galazy in the SCT.
--Russmax
starguru wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:12 am So I started another thread looking for suggestions for 1-2k scope. I appreciate all the replies I got there. One of the recommendations was to buy a starter scope, which ultimately I ended up doing -- I got a 102mm refractor. My reasons for doing this was to basically get a sense of what I could see given my questionable light situation, if I wanted to upgrade this cheap scope would serve wildlife duty for the family.
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Celestron AVX 8" SCT & Omni XLT 102 AZ
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#4

Post by Lady Fraktor »


What is it with SCTs suddenly??
Are they on sale somewhere??

Which 102mm did you end up purchasing Starguru?
A bit hard to give an opinion without the information :)
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See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#5

Post by Glenbo58 »


I have recently developed a an obsession with Adromeda & other DSO's. Funny that I am thinking almost the opposite of you. I HAVE AN 8
SCT & I see M31 as a faint smudge with a 2 in. 38 mm. wide angle eyepiece. 8 SCT's typically have a F/10 focal length that gives a narrow view to the eye. Perferable for Planetary but need a wiider view for Andromeda. I am deciding between a f/6.3 focal reducer or piggybacking a 80mm. ED refractor on my CST. I you are just a visual observer like I Am we need to just be excted that we see that smudge & understand how many light years away that it really is.
Lunt 102 ED, Celestron AVX, Orion Q70 38mm. Meade Super Plosl 26mm. Orthoscopic 18mm. Antaras Plossl 12.5mm.
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »


For visual go with the refractor, SCTs are not good for widefield viewing.

Here is an example of why not.
Lets look at the FOV they are capable of.
An 8" SCT gather a lot of light BUT it also has a central obstruction that has to be accounted for as well as a internal baffle tube of either 36 or 38mm.
That tube restricts your FOV for widefield viewing.
So simple calculation to figure out maximum FOV is Radian x Field Stop / Focal Length (notice aperture takes no part in the equation)
In the case of a 8" SCT the equation would be 57.3 x 38mm / 2032mm = 1.07° Maximum FOV
Now using my 150mm f/8 refractor which is unobstructed and I can fully use a 2" diagonal with: 57.3 x 48mm / 1200mm = 2.292° maximum FOV
Though neither one of us will be able to view all of Andromeda I will be able to see twice as much at a dark site. Under bad skies both of us will just see the brighter core anyways.

This is why when you read comparisons you will often see people making the comment that a refractor will equal or slightly out perform a SCT of 2" larger aperture.
Under dark skies I can typically see much more with my 150mm than guys can see with a 203mm SCT.
My 80mm f/6.9 refractor with a 2" diagonal is capable of a 4.98° maximum FOV!
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#7

Post by OzEclipse »


There is no simple answer to your question. No telescope does everything well. There are always compromises.

Dark Skies
Any telescope will see more detail in deep sky objects under dark skies than a larger telescope will under light polluted skies.
A big telescope from a dark sky is even better. Your user info says you live in North Virginia. I see there are some pretty decent skies in NW Virginia and across the border in West Virginia and the George Washington Forest. So if that is within driving distance and you could look at the biggest aperture portable scope you can manage.

There are many variables to consider even for a purely visual scope:-

what are your interests & what do you want to observe?

if your interests include deep sky observing:-
what type of sky do you have where you live?
can you travel to dark skies?
do you need it to be portable?
what are your physical limitations-lifting, strength, bad back etc?

I could go on.

From the info you provided, it seems that you are into deep sky.


While some premium and also more expensive 14", 16" and even 18" & 20" dobs are made to be ultra portable, the biggest (cheaper) dob that is readily car portable is probably the 12" Sky Watcher Flex Dob (Collapsable tube type). The 10" version is even more portable.

A 12" dob will have 4x the light gathering of the 6" refractor Gabby recommended and in a dark sky, dark sky objects will just sing. Every Skywatcher dob I've looked through has had pretty good optics. A 12" scope has twice the resolving power of a 6" refractor and will also do better on Moon, and planets. You will need to do some collimation each time to get the best from the scope. Don't be put off by this, it is a quick and easy process.

My 18" scope has to be assembled from struts and then the top cage attached. It takes about 10-20mins to assemble and then the collimation takes me less than 5 mins with the aid of a good laser collimator.

If you ask 20 different experienced observers, you'll probably get 20 different answers all of which have merit.

You have to find something that works for you.

Good Luck

Joe
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#8

Post by starguru »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:44 am What is it with SCTs suddenly??
Are they on sale somewhere??

Which 102mm did you end up purchasing Starguru?
A bit hard to give an opinion without the information :)
I got the Meade Infinity 102 as it was only $200 and can double on wildlife detail if I upgrade.

WRT SCTs I am concerned about the light gathering abilities since they have that central obstruction by design.
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#9

Post by musiclucho »


Some years ago, I started with a 15x70 pair of binoculars in the middle of the city (Bortle 8). Then, soon later I got a 6" Newtonian. To be honest, I liked more the views with my binos under those skies. Why? I guess because I did not have to hassle to find the stuff so I could find more and then because lower magnification and larger FOV put the clusters into a special feeling. Anyways... my point is: you don't need to go for a bigger scope just yet but explore more stuff with your actual size scope. Just get rid of the direct light pollution first and then follow a list of objects. I would start with the Messier list and then move to fainter stuff. From time to time, get some time under darker skies (although, Bortle 5 are no bad at all) and it will blow your mind. Then...go for a bigger scope and it will blow what is left.
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#10

Post by Bigzmey »


8" SCT is amazingly compact and lightweight. Grab and go setup with amazing reach. It will also complement well 102mm refractor.

As Gabby indicated 8" SCT collect a lot of light and show well faint galaxies, but has narrow field of view. Small refractor is great at wide field views of extended targets. I take both when go to the desert observing.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#11

Post by Lady Fraktor »


Just to be clear I was not trying to recommend a 150mm refractor (though they are hard to beat)
I was just giving an example as to why I would not recommend a SCT as a widefield/ DSO telescope.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#12

Post by Bigzmey »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:00 pm Just to be clear I was not trying to recommend a 150mm refractor (though they are hard to beat)
I was just giving an example as to why I would not recommend a SCT as a widefield/ DSO telescope.
Why not? 6" refractor is a great instrument.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#13

Post by Bigzmey »


starguru wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:42 pm
Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:44 am What is it with SCTs suddenly??
Are they on sale somewhere??

Which 102mm did you end up purchasing Starguru?
A bit hard to give an opinion without the information :)
I got the Meade Infinity 102 as it was only $200 and can double on wildlife detail if I upgrade.

WRT SCTs I am concerned about the light gathering abilities since they have that central obstruction by design.
Up to 6" aperture refractors are my favorite design. Above that you have to switch to reflecting scopes, reflectors or catadioptrics. All of them have central obstruction. I wouldn't reject scopes just based on that.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.
Solar: HA: Lunt 50mm single stack, W/L: Meade Herschel wedge.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2437, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 257
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#14

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I was not rejecting them just because of the central obstruction. That was mentioned once.
If viewing the faintest objects possible then I agree that the Newtonian design is best above 203mm for weight considerations.
Gabrielle
See Far Sticks: Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser 127/1200 BV, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS 100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, SXP2, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II, Stellarvue M2C, Argo Navis encoders on both
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Tak prism, TAL, Vixen
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss (1011110)
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#15

Post by kt4hx »


First off, congratulations on your 102mm refractor. It is a very capable instrument, but as with all apertures there are of course limitations. However, limitations in what you see are also dictated by several factors, two key ones are your light pollution levels coupled with intrusion of ground lighting, plus observing experience.

The brightness of the sky definitely compromises many objects, in particular extended diffuse types, such as nebulae (M42 in your case) and galaxies (M31 in your case). The light from those objects must compete with the brightness of the sky in order to be seen. Though 102mm is more than enough aperture to see Messier 42 well, its dimmer outer fringes will succumb to the brightness of your sky and not be easily seen if at all. Messier 31 suffers a similar fate. In terms of angular dimension it is quite large but under brighter conditions what is typically seen is only its small brighter inner structure and the dimmer outer portions become very weak or invisible. Though both objects have pretty bright visual magnitudes that is not the only yardstick for determining how easily they should be observed. Because their light is spread out over an area significantly larger than a stellar point, their appearance is effectively dimmed. This gets into the area of what is called surface brightness. I describe this in the following linked article:

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=3848

With regard to your light pollution, you may be looking at the colored LP maps, and sometimes they do attempt to correlate their static presentation to the Bortle scale. However, that is a bit of a misnomer. The Bortle scale is a sliding scale that adjusts to the conditions in the moment. It is determined with the naked eye based on a set of criteria outlined by John Bortle. The maps are based on satellite imagery using an algorithm to project the spread of sky glow over terrain. They each are a tool, but derived in a very different manner. For example, on my best night outside of Fredericksburg, I would meet the Bortle 5 criteria outlined in the below linked article. But some nights I might be a Bortle 6 or even 7 because conditions change, frequently within one evening. My colored map zone is orange, but that is static and does not reflect those nights when conditions are much poorer. Our dark site house on average meets the Bortle 3 criteria, but on the absolute best nights, it is closer to Bortle 2. Of course on poorer nights it can degrade to worse than Bortle 3 to even similar to at home or worse.

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... sky-scale/

The other part of the light issue is the intrusion of ground lighting into the observing position. As you noticed, when setting up in the driveway the light was more bothersome to you than when in the backyard where you were better shielded. It is always advisable whenever possible to seek out a corner where such lighting is totally blocked. Even if one must string up a temporary shield using a tarp and rope to block an offending light. What happens here is that the light entering your eye from a streetlight or porch light counteracts your dark adaptive processes and reduces contrast in the eyepiece. Even a little light shining in from the side as you look into the eyepiece or into the front of the tube of the telescope can reduce contrast within the view. So it is very important to try and block out as much of it as possible. Some folks will even go to the point of draping a dark cloth over their head and eyepiece when observing to increase contrast. Another trick is to wear an eye patch over the observing eye at all times that you are not at the eyepiece to help preserve dark adaptation.

As has been mentioned, observing from darker locations, if at all possible, pay huge dividends. I can see things in my 8x50 RACI finder scope at our dark site that might be challenging for your 102mm at home. Dark skies are the great equalizer. I keep my 17.5 inch dobsonian reflector at our dark site house in the western part of the state where it can be used to its greatest advantage. However, when I had it at home, the 10 and 12 inch dobsonians used at the dark site would keep pace with the 17.5 inch used under my suburban skies at home. The difference in light levels made that much difference.

You mentioned M31 being visible naked eye. From our backyard outside Fredericksburg, I can do just that on most clear nights. When conditions are particularly bad I might struggle to do so, or may only catch it with difficulty, but typically it is naked eye visible. But that said, part of that is experience. I've been doing this for decades, and knowing how to see is a critical skill that is built up through experience. You can place an experienced observer next to a new observer and ask them to look through the same telescope at the same object, and they most often will see things quite differently. I know from experience when trying to show a new observer a galaxy through a telescope, that I will describe what I see and then ask them to look. A typical response from them is either "what galaxy" or "I think I see something." That is because their eye is not yet trained to observe. They know to look, but they don't really know how to see. That comes with experience. Its all about perspective. If you don't know what to expect when looking for an object, they can often be either disappointing or not easily seen if seen at all.

So keep at it and gain as much experience as you can behind the eyepiece. In time you will start to see the differences in how much you can detect visually. As I am fond of saying, "the more we learn the more fun we have, and the more fun we have the more we learn." :)
Alan

Scopes: Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob ||
ES AR127 f/6.5 || ES ED80 f/6 || Apertura 6" f/5 Newtonian
Mounts: ES Twilight-II and Twilight-I
EPs: AT 82° 28mm UWA || TV Ethos 100° 21mm and 13mm || Vixen LVW 65° 22mm ||
ES 82° 18mm || Pentax XW 70° 10mm, 7mm and 5mm || barlows
Filters (2 inch): DGM NPB || Orion Ultra Block, O-III and Sky Glow || Baader HaB
Primary Field Atlases: Uranometria All-Sky Edition and Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas
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"Astronomers, we look into the past to see our future." (me)
"Seeing is in some respect an art, which must be learnt." (William Herschel)
"What we know is a drop, what we don't know is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)
"No good deed goes unpunished." (various)
Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't you think?” (Scarecrow, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz)
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coopman United States of America
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#16

Post by coopman »


There is a LOT to see with a 4" scope. Try a moonless night and your results will be much better.
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

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Post by starguru »


kt4hx wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:04 pm First off, congratulations on your 102mm refractor. It is a very capable instrument, but as with all apertures there are of course limitations. However, limitations in what you see are also dictated by several factors, two key ones are your light pollution levels coupled with intrusion of ground lighting, plus observing experience.

The brightness of the sky definitely compromises many objects, in particular extended diffuse types, such as nebulae (M42 in your case) and galaxies (M31 in your case). The light from those objects must compete with the brightness of the sky in order to be seen. Though 102mm is more than enough aperture to see Messier 42 well, its dimmer outer fringes will succumb to the brightness of your sky and not be easily seen if at all. Messier 31 suffers a similar fate. In terms of angular dimension it is quite large but under brighter conditions what is typically seen is only its small brighter inner structure and the dimmer outer portions become very weak or invisible. Though both objects have pretty bright visual magnitudes that is not the only yardstick for determining how easily they should be observed. Because their light is spread out over an area significantly larger than a stellar point, their appearance is effectively dimmed. This gets into the area of what is called surface brightness. I describe this in the following linked article:

viewtopic.php?f=94&t=3848

With regard to your light pollution, you may be looking at the colored LP maps, and sometimes they do attempt to correlate their static presentation to the Bortle scale. However, that is a bit of a misnomer. The Bortle scale is a sliding scale that adjusts to the conditions in the moment. It is determined with the naked eye based on a set of criteria outlined by John Bortle. The maps are based on satellite imagery using an algorithm to project the spread of sky glow over terrain. They each are a tool, but derived in a very different manner. For example, on my best night outside of Fredericksburg, I would meet the Bortle 5 criteria outlined in the below linked article. But some nights I might be a Bortle 6 or even 7 because conditions change, frequently within one evening. My colored map zone is orange, but that is static and does not reflect those nights when conditions are much poorer. Our dark site house on average meets the Bortle 3 criteria, but on the absolute best nights, it is closer to Bortle 2. Of course on poorer nights it can degrade to worse than Bortle 3 to even similar to at home or worse.

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astrono ... sky-scale/

The other part of the light issue is the intrusion of ground lighting into the observing position. As you noticed, when setting up in the driveway the light was more bothersome to you than when in the backyard where you were better shielded. It is always advisable whenever possible to seek out a corner where such lighting is totally blocked. Even if one must string up a temporary shield using a tarp and rope to block an offending light. What happens here is that the light entering your eye from a streetlight or porch light counteracts your dark adaptive processes and reduces contrast in the eyepiece. Even a little light shining in from the side as you look into the eyepiece or into the front of the tube of the telescope can reduce contrast within the view. So it is very important to try and block out as much of it as possible. Some folks will even go to the point of draping a dark cloth over their head and eyepiece when observing to increase contrast. Another trick is to wear an eye patch over the observing eye at all times that you are not at the eyepiece to help preserve dark adaptation.

As has been mentioned, observing from darker locations, if at all possible, pay huge dividends. I can see things in my 8x50 RACI finder scope at our dark site that might be challenging for your 102mm at home. Dark skies are the great equalizer. I keep my 17.5 inch dobsonian reflector at our dark site house in the western part of the state where it can be used to its greatest advantage. However, when I had it at home, the 10 and 12 inch dobsonians used at the dark site would keep pace with the 17.5 inch used under my suburban skies at home. The difference in light levels made that much difference.

You mentioned M31 being visible naked eye. From our backyard outside Fredericksburg, I can do just that on most clear nights. When conditions are particularly bad I might struggle to do so, or may only catch it with difficulty, but typically it is naked eye visible. But that said, part of that is experience. I've been doing this for decades, and knowing how to see is a critical skill that is built up through experience. You can place an experienced observer next to a new observer and ask them to look through the same telescope at the same object, and they most often will see things quite differently. I know from experience when trying to show a new observer a galaxy through a telescope, that I will describe what I see and then ask them to look. A typical response from them is either "what galaxy" or "I think I see something." That is because their eye is not yet trained to observe. They know to look, but they don't really know how to see. That comes with experience. Its all about perspective. If you don't know what to expect when looking for an object, they can often be either disappointing or not easily seen if seen at all.

So keep at it and gain as much experience as you can behind the eyepiece. In time you will start to see the differences in how much you can detect visually. As I am fond of saying, "the more we learn the more fun we have, and the more fun we have the more we learn." :)
Hi everyone sorry for the delay. I've been traveling for work and it's been pretty cloudy. Anyway, thanks for the great responses. Ill keep trying. I actually went outside again last night (only a sliver moon) and could see M42 much better, compared to with the moon, even at only 66x magnification. I was too lazy to try the 2x Barlow or 6mm lense that came with the Meade.

I STILL COULDN"T FIND M31!!!! Again it was right in the zone where all the neighborhood lights interfere with viewing; I might be able to set up on the grass about 10 feet below my driveway and still be able to point at it.

Good news is I think I learned how to find Polaris with Cassiopeia, which is good since evidently the Big Dipper is partially below the horizon this time of year.

I was also amazed at how many stars there are around M42; when focused on the Nebula I used the micro adjusters to move around and its just stars everywhere. Im going to try the find the Pleiades tonight, which if I understand correctly I just follow the line formed by Orion's Belt.

I'm already itching to get a beefy 6" refractor but am resisting the urge so far until I can find more objects.

Since I seem to be fairly good at pointing at Orion, any other suggestions of interesting clusters or nebula in that area?
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Re: What to expect given my first night of results

#18

Post by coopman »


If you have some binoculars, try to find the Andromeda Galaxy with them first. Then you will know approx. where to aim your telescope to find it.
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