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Bigzmey
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#61

Post by Bigzmey »

JayTee wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:14 am
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT

Should I go on?

JT
:lol: BUY SCT OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! :shock: :D
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 16x50 & 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Russell Optics: SuperPlossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1193, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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#62

Post by starguru »

Bigzmey wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:16 am
JayTee wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:14 am
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT

Should I go on?

JT
:lol: BUY SCT OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! :shock: :D
Ha...this isn't an easy decision for me. I hate it when there are tradeoffs. Actually, your Stellarvue 102 mm seems like a pretty capable scope, and an APO as well.
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Bigzmey
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#63

Post by Bigzmey »

starguru wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:38 am
Bigzmey wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:16 am
JayTee wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:14 am
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT
GO
DO IT

Should I go on?

JT
:lol: BUY SCT OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!!! :shock: :D
Ha...this isn't an easy decision for me. I hate it when there are tradeoffs. Actually, your Stellarvue 102 mm seems like a pretty capable scope, and an APO as well.
Yes, Stellarvue is a pure pleasure to use. My favorite tool for doubles. But, 8" SCT or 150mm achro would run circles around it as far as DSOs go.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 16x50 & 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Russell Optics: SuperPlossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1193, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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Sky Tinker
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#64

Post by Sky Tinker »

starguru wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:12 am
Cool images! I am aware of the CA consequence of achromatic refractors. In the earlier posts many recomm them for starting out.

Do you have any examples of what proper targets for refractors look like?

Also, I see in your sig you have an APO piece, how does that do?

Ah, yes, my "quintessential Japanese toy", as I call it...
FS-102v3b.jpg
A vulgar display, that is. I started out, at the age of 9 or so, with a 60mm f/11 Sears(Towa) achromat...
Sears 4426 manual2.jpg
Sears 4426 manual2.jpg (20.07 KiB) Viewed 502 times
I still have it, but it needs restoration...
kit5.jpg
kit5.jpg (12.86 KiB) Viewed 502 times
The very first object I ever saw through that telescope was Saturn, and with my late father.

When I was 27, I got a Parks(Towa) PRT-813, an 80mm f/11 achromat...
Parks PRT-813.jpg
With that one, I watched Venus from about 5:30 one morning, whilst it was still dark, and via the motorised EQ-2 all the way up until about 11:00, the Sun shining brightly, and with the planet still in view, appearing as a pale sphere sprinkled with fine sand; or a sugar-cookie. At another time, I also observed the after-effects of Comet Shoemaker-Levy's collision with Jupiter; the black pockmarks left upon the surface of the planet.

In 2003, it was time for me to get my definitive 4" refractor, and to be the largest aperture I would ever own. I first ordered this Vixen 102mm f/10(?) achromat...
Vixen 102mm f9.8.jpg
...but once it arrived I decided that I did not want another achromat, not for my 4"; and the rest is history. I observed only one object with the Vixen, I can't recall what it was, and that was that; back it went. I did retain the Vixen's tube-rings however, and for the Takahashi once it arrived...
FS-102x.jpg
I take the FS-102 out only during droughts these days, as we have considerable humidity in my area. One of the last times was the night of August 31st, 2015, and during a six-week-to-two-month drought...
083115d.jpg
083115h2.jpg
But many years before, I had split Sirius, and when it had been stated that a 4" refractor could not. Back then, the "Dog" and "Pup" were very close together, making the split most difficult...
Sirius4.jpg
There's B, that little bump on the edge of A.

The difficulty was that Sirius A is so very bright, the brightest star in the sky, worldwide, that Sirius B was practically lost in A's glare. But there was B, blinking in and out as I watched.

I attribute that feat to the fluorite element of the telescope's doublet. The other element of the doublet, the "flint" portion as I call it, the mating-element to the fluorite, is mysterious. It's designated with a "K" and with a few numbers after that. It was produced using heavy-metals. As a result, some individuals who had produced the glass became sick, with the production perhaps even having caused a fatality or two, from what I had read years ago. But once finished, as it now rests within my telescope, it's inert. These days, Takahashi(actually, Canon-Optron) refers to their current mating-elements as being "eco-friendly".

I overwhelming prefer refractors, for first-impressions are lasting, and eternal. But since 2015, I have been observing with reflectors as well. I do like my reflectors, a lot, but dare I say that I love my refractors? I do have quite a few achromats...
achromats4.jpg
achromats5.jpg
Last edited by Sky Tinker on Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Look, son! Up there!" His son shouted back, "I see it! What is it?" The father regaled, "The galaxy! Andromeda! Our origin, our destiny!" And so the boy was hooked, and for the rest of his natural life.

Alan

Apochromat: Takahashi FS-102 f/8 - Achromats: Meade "Polaris" 90mm f/10(flocked & blackened), Antares(GSO) 805 80mm f/6(flocked & blackened), Celestron(Synta) "AstroMaster" 70mm f/13(flocked & blackened), Sears(Towa) #4-6340 50mm f/12(flocked & blackened) - Newtonians: Orion(Synta) 6" f/5(flocked & blackened), Meade "Polaris" 114mm f/8, Zhumell(GSO) Z100 100mm f/4 - Catadioptrics: Explore Scientific(JOC) 127mm f/15 Maksutov-Cassegrain, Celestron "PowerSeeker" 127mm f/8 "Bird Jones" reflector(modified, flocked, blackened...& collimated!)...and mounts, eyepieces, barlows and diagonals.
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#65

Post by JayTee »

Alan -- STOP the madness!

Let the poor guy make a decision! :hand: :doh: :lol: :o

It's getting to the point where he may need to wrap his head in duct tape to keep all the recommendations from leaking out!

Cheers,
JT
∞ Scopes: Celestron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scopes: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM60, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ZWO ASI120MC, Orion SSAG
∞ Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70², 25X100
∞ EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 GSO:15,20

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My Wx https://dashboard.ambientweather.net/de ... 837a4f803c
I never met a scope I didn't want to keep. "My God, it's full of stars."
Searching the skies since 1966!
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Sky Tinker
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#66

Post by Sky Tinker »

Perhaps the OP needs a bit of history...heh heh heh...

The very first telescope ever developed, was a refractor, and in 1608. Galileo had one in 1609; Saturn appeared as having "ears" instead of rings through his instrument. The refractors back then, and up to 1727, were plagued by oodles and oodles of false-colour; so much so that Newton became disgusted, and was driven to create the first telescope utilising only mirrors; the Newtonian, and in 1668. Newtonians are apochromats in and of themselves; 100% false-colour free. Practically all telescopes that use mirrors, wholly or in part, are apochromatic. In 1727, and commercially-viable by the 1750s, after Newton's passing unfortunately, the achromatic-refractor was developed. They're essentially the same today as they were back then. Back then they were very costly, but now they're relatively inexpensive. At last, the false-colour was minimised, tamed by the achromat, and the optical-tubes became much shorter to boot, far shorter.

Refractors, over all other designs of telescopes, produce the sharpest and most contrasty images, bar-none. But at the same time they have the smallest apertures per dollar spent. Ah, but there's nothing like cozying up with a smaller refractor whilst outdoors. Light as a feather to haul out, to be amazed and wowed, then to haul it back in for the night.

Here's something of a sleeper...

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech- ... l?___SID=U

It's not a true apochromat, but relatively close given its relatively low price. Read the reviews. There's 36 of them at present.

A Maksutov-Cassegrain is the only mirrored design that has been described as being refractor-like in performance. They're built like a tank, the design developed by Dimitry Maksutov for that very quality, and for schools. The only downside, for some, or most, who knows, is that it has the longest focal-length of any other design per inch of aperture. It is a celestial "microscope". Now, a telescope, in the first place, is for seeing faraway objects up close, front and center, and the Maksutov is the ideal for that, hands-down. Low powers and wide fields-of-view, use your naked eyes or a pair of binoculars. Among all the apertures of the design, the 127mm, or 5" , is the sweet-spot...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... n_ota.html

I have one, but it's the Explore Scientific 127mm f/15. It has a longer focal-length(if such were possible) than the Sky-Watcher. It's at a whopping 1900mm(!), and quite close to that of an 8" Schmidt at 2032mm...
Maksutov5c.jpg
What I like about the design is that you can insert a 20mm eyepiece, which is usually a low power with many other telescopes, and you're there, up close, and without feeling an immediate desire or need to bump up the power further. But then, you can go higher, and higher still, and still enjoy sharp, pleasing images, even at the highest power that the aperture, and albeit the atmosphere, will allow.
"Look, son! Up there!" His son shouted back, "I see it! What is it?" The father regaled, "The galaxy! Andromeda! Our origin, our destiny!" And so the boy was hooked, and for the rest of his natural life.

Alan

Apochromat: Takahashi FS-102 f/8 - Achromats: Meade "Polaris" 90mm f/10(flocked & blackened), Antares(GSO) 805 80mm f/6(flocked & blackened), Celestron(Synta) "AstroMaster" 70mm f/13(flocked & blackened), Sears(Towa) #4-6340 50mm f/12(flocked & blackened) - Newtonians: Orion(Synta) 6" f/5(flocked & blackened), Meade "Polaris" 114mm f/8, Zhumell(GSO) Z100 100mm f/4 - Catadioptrics: Explore Scientific(JOC) 127mm f/15 Maksutov-Cassegrain, Celestron "PowerSeeker" 127mm f/8 "Bird Jones" reflector(modified, flocked, blackened...& collimated!)...and mounts, eyepieces, barlows and diagonals.
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Lady Fraktor
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#67

Post by Lady Fraktor »

If you are still indecisive I would really wait till you can get to a star party and see the telescopes in use and look through them.
Better to wait than spend your money on something you discover is not what you wanted.
🇸🇰
Proper Telescopes: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNGDX 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen ED115s f/7.7
Mounts: Celestron AS-GT, Celestron CG-5 w/ Argo Navis & tracking motor, SLT w/ pier & tripod mods, Manfrotto 028b w/ SV M2C, Mantrotto 055Pro w/ 128RC, TAL MT1C, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 & half pier
Diagonal: 2" A-P Maxbright, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (P), 2" Zeiss/ Baader Amici Prism (DX2), 2" Orion Amici Prism, 2" Stellarvue DX, 2" TeleVue EverBrite
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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#68

Post by JayTee »

Alan, that was just evil. :o :naughty: :snooty:

JT
∞ Scopes: Celestron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scopes: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM60, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ZWO ASI120MC, Orion SSAG
∞ Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70², 25X100
∞ EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 GSO:15,20

HOME Image

My Wx https://dashboard.ambientweather.net/de ... 837a4f803c
I never met a scope I didn't want to keep. "My God, it's full of stars."
Searching the skies since 1966!
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Sky Tinker
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#69

Post by Sky Tinker »

JayTee wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:55 am
Alan, that was just evil. :o :naughty: :snooty:

JT
Nonsense, for knowledge is power.
"Look, son! Up there!" His son shouted back, "I see it! What is it?" The father regaled, "The galaxy! Andromeda! Our origin, our destiny!" And so the boy was hooked, and for the rest of his natural life.

Alan

Apochromat: Takahashi FS-102 f/8 - Achromats: Meade "Polaris" 90mm f/10(flocked & blackened), Antares(GSO) 805 80mm f/6(flocked & blackened), Celestron(Synta) "AstroMaster" 70mm f/13(flocked & blackened), Sears(Towa) #4-6340 50mm f/12(flocked & blackened) - Newtonians: Orion(Synta) 6" f/5(flocked & blackened), Meade "Polaris" 114mm f/8, Zhumell(GSO) Z100 100mm f/4 - Catadioptrics: Explore Scientific(JOC) 127mm f/15 Maksutov-Cassegrain, Celestron "PowerSeeker" 127mm f/8 "Bird Jones" reflector(modified, flocked, blackened...& collimated!)...and mounts, eyepieces, barlows and diagonals.
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#70

Post by starguru »

Thanks Sky Tinker for both the wonderful story and the history!! And yes JT, this thread has given me a lot (too much) to think about, but I think that was bound to happen. At this point it's just a matter of picking something. I think what I am going to definitely do is make sure whatever mount I get can handle a plethora of options so even if I get a suboptimal first scope I can always get another.

Lady Fraktor, the first meeting of the local astronomy club I can attend isn't until February, and Im not even sure it will be a star party type affair, but yes that would be the safest option. But if there is one thing I learned here is that there is no clearly better choice for everything, so no matter what I get it's not going to be ideal for something.

I like the idea of the Cassegrain being decent at everything (but master of none), and I like the idea of the Refractor (or perhaps reflectors) being better for DSOs, which is what (I think) I am most interested in, as well as the simplicity of the refractor design, where you can be up and running in seconds as opposed to 10-20 minutes if you need to align the mount/scope.
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Refractordude
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#71

Post by Refractordude »

With the information I now have in the hobby with a $2000 budget, I would get the below. I like the AZ mount with the OTA, because I am not into astrophotography. The scope comes with a 102mm aperture mask. I still advise buy used and cheap for a few months, and then decide. Right click the image.

https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-6 ... l?___SID=U
https://www.astronomics.com/6-f-8-achro ... etail.html
Attachments
image 1.PNG
Telescopes: Meade LX70 120mm f/8 Refractor, Vixen 70mm f/12.9 Refractor, Tasco 49N 50mm Red Refractor
Binoculars: Zhumell 20x80 Giant, Levenhuk Sherman 7x50
Mounts: Orion SkyView Pro Equatorial, Orion Versago II Altazimuth, Farpoint Universal Parrallogram Mount
Finders: GSO 8x50 Raci, Svbony Red Dot
Diagonals: GSO Dielectric 2", GSO Dielectric 1.25"
Eyepieces: GSO Plossls 32mm/25mm/20mm, GSO 20mm Superview, Svbony 20mm/15mm/9mm/6mm, Svbony Aspheric 23mm/10mm/4mm, Agena Super Wide Angle 15mm, Few No Name Brand Ebay Plossls
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Bigzmey
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#72

Post by Bigzmey »

Refractordude wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:52 pm
With the information I now have in the hobby with a $2000 budget, I would get the below. I like the AZ mount with the OTA, because I am not into astrophotography. The scope comes with a 102mm aperture mask. I still advise buy used and cheap for a few months, and then decide. Right click the image.

https://www.astronomics.com/celestron-6 ... l?___SID=U
https://www.astronomics.com/6-f-8-achro ... etail.html
SkyTee 2 is a great mount. This is my desert workhorse. :D They are not available in US, I got mine shipped from Germany. It required some TLC, but after that it works nicely. Rock solid, 60lb load capacity, slow motion controls; and you can put 3 scopes on it and allign all 3 to the same FOV.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 16x50 & 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Russell Optics: SuperPlossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1193, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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#73

Post by pakarinen »

Sky Tinker wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:10 am
A vulgar display, that is. I started out, at the age of 9 or so, with a 60mm f/11 Sears(Towa) achromat...

Sears 4426 manual2.jpg
Holy Jamoly. :shock: I'm pretty sure that was my first scope too. I had forgotten about the solar projection flippy-doo thing. I wish I still had the wooden case it came in.
Olen Suomalainen!


Orion ST120, Meade AdventureScope ST80, Skywatcher 90mm Mak
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GCoyote
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#74

Post by GCoyote »

starguru wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:38 am
...
Ha...this isn't an easy decision for me. I hate it when there are tradeoffs. ...
There are always trade offs! :D

In a similar situation located in suburban Maryland I went the opposite direction. I now have a "fleet" of second hand scopes that I'm (slowly) learning to refurbish as I get used to the hobby under the worst weather conditions in generations. (Maryland set all time records for rainfall in 2018 :( I'm currently using my SCT to watch squirrels.)

While I still do not have anywhere close to a 'dream scope' yet, I've learned a lot about what I like and what I will actually use given my geographic limitations.

1. If you only pay $20 bucks for something, drilling a new hole in it isn't that daunting a prospect. (Neither is leaving parts on the patio overnight. Oops.)
2 a. You can make one good rig out of three crappy ones and resell the parts you don't need. I'm only at around $250 all-in and the DIY folks here have a lot of helpful ideas for whatever problem you bump into.
2 b. If you are slightly OCD, you can make a new hobby out of organizing your spare parts. :whistle:
3. Collimation isn't as scary as some make it sound. Depending on where you are on the patience - irritation scale it may not be a big deal. A simple tool costs $35 from Celestron.
4. A review is only useful if the reviewer has tastes similar to yours and operates under similar conditions. That's as true of telescopes as it is of movies and restaurants.
5. This is the perfect place to get ideas and feedback from like-minded amateurs (and the occasional retired professional).

Star Party Announcements - https://theskysearchers.com/viewforum.php?f=86
Buy, Sell, and Trade - https://theskysearchers.com/viewforum.php?f=95
And you might like - The Urban Astronomer's Guide: A Walking Tour of the Cosmos for City Sky Watchers https://books.google.com/books/about/Th ... escription

Take advantage, and ENJOY!
Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.
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Ylem
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#75

Post by Ylem »

Don't over think your first scope, eventually you will own several ;)
Clear Skies,
-Jeff :telescopewink:

A bunch of SCTs and MCTs scattered around the house and an Orion ST80.
A big box of Plossls :D
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mikemarotta
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#76

Post by mikemarotta »

starguru wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:35 pm
... And yes JT, this thread has given me a lot (too much) to think about, but I think that was bound to happen. At this point it's just a matter of picking something. ...
What did you decide?
How did the astronomy club meeting go for you?

And BTW, I was wrong about collimation requiring a laser and several hours. I bought a collimation eyepiece for under $40 with S&H total and it took about 15 minutes the first and only time.

It was said also that you can do that with a film canister and I did that when I first got the telescope five years ago, but I was not confident of the results. Like much else - building a back deck, fixing your car - it takes some finesse to do it right. People who find it easy underestimate the curve for others. Just to say, forums like this are fine, but doing your work is best.
------------------------------------------
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starguru
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#77

Post by starguru »

mikemarotta wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:17 pm
starguru wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:35 pm
... And yes JT, this thread has given me a lot (too much) to think about, but I think that was bound to happen. At this point it's just a matter of picking something. ...
What did you decide?
How did the astronomy club meeting go for you?

And BTW, I was wrong about collimation requiring a laser and several hours. I bought a collimation eyepiece for under $40 with S&H total and it took about 15 minutes the first and only time.

It was said also that you can do that with a film canister and I did that when I first got the telescope five years ago, but I was not confident of the results. Like much else - building a back deck, fixing your car - it takes some finesse to do it right. People who find it easy underestimate the curve for others. Just to say, forums like this are fine, but doing your work is best.
I’m actually going to a star party a week from today so I hope to get more info then.
starguru
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#78

Post by starguru »

Something is arriving tomorrow. I went a bit above my initial stated budget. Teehee!
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