Yet another newbie needs help post!

We all started somewhere! We are a friendly bunch! Most of your questions can be posted here, but if you are interested in Astrophotography please use the new Beginner Astrophotography forum. The response time will be much better.
Post Reply
User avatar
Sea_Change
Earth Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:34 pm
4
Location: New Orleans, LA
Status:
Offline

Yet another newbie needs help post!

#1

Post by Sea_Change »


Hey everyone,
I mentioned in my intro post that I have never owned , or even used, a telescope. I have wanted to purchase one for many years now, but life responsibilities, income and my budget have kept me from pursuing fun things.
I have finally decided that I need to just go ahead and get my setup, because if I wait until I am debt-free, I'll probably be dead first.
My initial thought was to spend a few hundred dollars and get a good scope from that. A few hundred to me is nothing to sneeze at, it's a lot of money!
Fortunately, or unfortunately (depending on POV), through research, I have learned that I need much more than a scope, and my few hundred budget is probably going to be a few thousand. My, oh my.
I'd like your opinions on the scope and mount I'm considering, as well as any suggestions you may have. I'd also appreciate input on must-have accessories, like filters, eyepieces, barlows, powering, etc etc etc...

So, to start, I am, like other newbie astronomers, interested in astrophotography. Being a former pro photographer, I do know that this endeavor will have great challenges, coupled with a lot of frustration. I look forward to it. Challenge is fun.
I live outside New Orleans....think I'm in a Bortle 8. Ridiculous, and too dang much unnatural light.
While I do plan to practice with my new scope from my backyard, I also have darker sites (within a few hours drive) I like to go to gaze at the stars, and will surely bring my new setup to those places as well. (I think they are Bortle 2-4, depending on site.)
I do want to view and photograph our solar system, from our own star to all of the planets, but I am most interested in seeing and imaging DSO.
I do realise that I'll need different scopes for best viewing of each, so I want to start with DSOs, because I think it will be a good long while before I can afford to add another scope to my arsenal, and DSOs can keep me busy and happy for an eternity. I'll be mounting a Nikon DSLR to the scope, if that makes a difference in your recommendations, opinions and suggestions. (I've noticed a lot of you shooting with DSLRs use Canon, but I'm a Nikon gal...)
Anyway, finally, to the gear...

I am seriously considering the Skywatcher Pro ED 80mm refractor scope as my first. What do you guys think of this one? Pros and cons, in your opinion? Do you recommend it, or would you suggest a different scope and why?
As for mounts, I think I need to go with the EQ6-R, but I'm looking at the Celestron Advanced VX as well (it's nearly $500 cheaper, and weight capacity is 14lbs less). I admit that the product descriptions confuse me. Do these mounts track objects as well as find them, or is a guider/tracker yet another purchase I will be adding to my mounting debt?
If it is something else I need to purchase, what do you recommend?

Accessories:
Eyepieces and Barlows - What is most useful to you? What sizes/brands do you recommend? I'm lost on which to choose.
Filters - Which ones do you recommend I start with for DSO? Type and brand would be appreciated. I've found many, from the absurdly cheap to absurdly expensive, and I'm none-the-wiser on which ones are best to start with (though I assume the absurdly cheap are comparable to poop). I know a light pollution filter *might* help, at least with halogen and sulfur light. I know I'll need an OIII. I've also seen hydrogen-alpha and hydrogen-beta filters....and then the confusion starts. So, what would be your recommendations?
Power supply/tank/batteries - I certainly don't want to drag my gear out to a dark spot, set it all up, and use it for a bit only to have my batteries die. Is there a portable power supply that's easy to use (and charge) that would last an entire night of viewing/shooting/tracking?

As of now, I believe I will be using DarkSkyStacker and Photoshop for image stacking and post-processing, but I am always open to suggestions.

I think that's more than enough to start with...of course, if I don't know something, then I don't know to ask about it. So, if there is something I'm missing, please point it out to me.
In the words of Jeff Goldblum as 'The Fly': "Help mee. Please, help meeeeee!"

Thank you so much! I look forward to learning and sharing with you all! :Astronomer1:
Peace,
Laura
"Notebook. No photographer should be without one.” - Ansel Adams

"You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” – Ansel Adams

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you join us, and the world will live as one." - John Lennon
User avatar
Lady Fraktor Slovakia
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 9860
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:14 pm
4
Location: Slovakia
Status:
Offline

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#2

Post by Lady Fraktor »


The Skywatcher refractor is quite good and is a good choice to get started with.
You will need a focal reducer eventually for imaging DSO though.

Go-to mounts will still need to be polar aligned physically and then through the mount electronics.
After that it will find and track objects.
For any mount considered for AP you will want to keep your equipment weight to 50-60% of the mounts capacity so you will have to total weights of everything that will be attached.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
The only culture I have is from yogurt
My day was going well until... people
Image
User avatar
Sea_Change
Earth Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:34 pm
4
Location: New Orleans, LA
Status:
Offline

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#3

Post by Sea_Change »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:51 pm You will need a focal reducer eventually for imaging DSO though.
Really? Well poop. I thought I was reducing when I stopped looking at the 120mm, and started looking at the 80mm. :lol:
It has been added to my list.
So, this adds other questions. M31 or M42 won't fit in an 80mm frame? What if I decide to try my hand at capturing NGC 6543, wouldn't it be too tiny in the image to really make it out? Of course, you don't have to answer these, because these are questions I'll learn the answers to through play, trial and error!

Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:51 pm Go-to mounts will still need to be polar aligned physically and then through the mount electronics.
After that it will find and track objects.
For any mount considered for AP you will want to keep your equipment weight to 50-60% of the mounts capacity so you will have to total weights of everything that will be attached.
Okay! Whew! That was a new confusion that cropped up, because of certain wording in each of the mounts' descriptions. From your answer, it would seem that another notch has been added in favour of the EQ6-R. When I first found that one, I was pretty sure it was the one I wanted....but, oh, how I wish it were cheaper!
Thank you so much for your response!
Peace,
Laura
"Notebook. No photographer should be without one.” - Ansel Adams

"You don’t take a photograph, you make it.” – Ansel Adams

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you join us, and the world will live as one." - John Lennon
User avatar
JayTee United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 2
Offline
Posts: 5619
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:23 am
4
Location: Idaho, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#4

Post by JayTee »


To determine if an object will fit in the camera field of view (FOV), there are two parts to that equation: 1) the focal length (FL) of the telescope and 2) the size of the camera sensor. If you are using a DSLR for imaging then its sensor is big enough to capture all of M31 and M42 and M45 using a short focal length (480mm) 80mm scope and will just barely fit in a 600mm FL scope. Only when you go to a smaller sensor will you run into trouble trying to fit large objects into the FOV. Play around with website to get a feel for what telescopes and cameras will give you in regards to FOV:
https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/

The EQ6-R is a better mount than the AVX, so you will lose less hair by buying the EQ6-R.

Cheers,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

Image
User avatar
sdbodin United States of America
Milky Way Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 1086
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 11:00 pm
4
Location: Mattawa, WA, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#5

Post by sdbodin »


OK, a few things, DSOs are probably the very most hardest items to image in a telescope. They require long exposures with cameras designed to expose for a long time. While some folks are successful with a DSLR, it is not designed to expose for a long duration, thermal noise, lack of Hydrogen light sensitivity are two problem areas. However a DSLR will take excellent moon pics and sun too, CAUTION NEED SAFE FILTRATION, or you'll burn your eye out, sorry just watching A Christmas Story on tv.

OK, that aside, astrophotography can be a most satisfying endeavor. An 80mm f6 Apochromatic refractor is, in my estimation, the one scope that I would be stranded on a desert island with. Good DSOs, moon, sun, comets, however the planets are just small dots, in both a camera and an eyepiece.

But, no sense wasting hard earned money on something that will not get the job done. Save and look at the used market, with luck maybe $1000 will get you into this kind of setup.

Good luck,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
User avatar
SkyHiker United States of America
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Online
Posts: 2293
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:40 pm
4
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#6

Post by SkyHiker »


If I had to choose one good beginner set all over it would be the AVX with my 6" "Comet Hunter" Mak-Newt. The Mak-Newt is good for visual and AP, has a flat field so you don't need a field flattener, it is F/4.8 so you get loads of light (the exposure time is proportional to the inverse squared). It will do a good job of capturing M31 and M42 and a whole lot more. If you want to do galaxies, do what you can with the Mak-Newt but prepare to spend $5K more for the mostly, many, smaller targets. I recommend a modified DSLR that captures extra H alpha. You may not need an autoguider if you do a good job at polar alignment and keep the exposure time short (shoot at high ISO with a modified camera).
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
User avatar
PalomarJack
Earth Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:50 pm
4
Location: Tehachapi, Ca
Status:
Offline

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#7

Post by PalomarJack »


And don't forget the basics, decent binoculars, which is where you should start before cracking open the packaging for the telescope, you won't regret it. Unless you already have them, something like 8x50s. If you already have 7x40s even that will be fine. Besides, there are things you can see in binoculars that will not be obvious or even show at all through a telescope, just too much magnification. For example, you can look all night for the North America Nebula, but even 7x40 binoculars makes it obvious, even at a semi-dark sky location like my back yard here in Tehachapi Ca.

A minimal star chart to about 5th or 6th magnitude supplemented by another more detailed one that reaches at least 7th. Nortons Star Atlas is a decent compromise. Practice finding things in it through your binoculars with them. Nortons has decent observing lists for each chart, but with an 8" on an equatorial mount and setting circles it becomes quite minimal. There are also publications dedicated to binocular observing. You can also download decent charts on line for free, like The Mag 7 Star Atlas. Spend a night or two learning to orient yourself to what you see on paper to what you see in the sky. Learn to read the chart and find it in the sky without holding it over your head, it's a bad habit to get into. Yes, occasionally I do it, but just for an oddly placed star group, the rest of the time it stays flat on the desk. If you have an Android cell phone or tablet, get Night Sky Tools, it is basically an entire observing list and guide. It also has a night time feature, runs in shades of red. Even if you have an Apple product, a used Android device just to run this is worth it. They may even have an iOS version by now.

A nice chair to park it on to get off your feet a few minutes and use your binoculars from. Also, a little desk to put charts and notes on that you can stand at. I would not bother with one you can sit at, you will be consistently getting up and sitting down to read and interpret star charts and look through your equipment. In my case I made a table top that perches on top of the same dolly/hand truck I use to move the mount and telescope without disassembly.

And the first three things you really should do to fast track your new interest. Find a club, join it, and go to the meetings and star parties. Most even loan equipment, that way you don't have to buy anything to get started. If they are an Astronomical League member you will also get a subscription to The Reflector, an decent substitute to Sky and Telescope. And the next three things, have fun, patients and yet more patients.
I'm here to do two things, build something and dump some light down it.

8" f/6 Newtonian on a German equatorial mount, all DIY.
DIY 90mm f/10 refractor on old medium duty Edmund Scientific German equatorial mount.
User avatar
KathyNS Canada
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Online
Posts: 2584
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:47 am
4
Location: Nova Scotia
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#8

Post by KathyNS »


Sea_Change wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:44 pm Accessories:
Eyepieces and Barlows - What is most useful to you? What sizes/brands do you recommend? I'm lost on which to choose.
Filters - Which ones do you recommend I start with for DSO? Type and brand would be appreciated. I've found many, from the absurdly cheap to absurdly expensive, and I'm none-the-wiser on which ones are best to start with (though I assume the absurdly cheap are comparable to poop). I know a light pollution filter *might* help, at least with halogen and sulfur light. I know I'll need an OIII. I've also seen hydrogen-alpha and hydrogen-beta filters....and then the confusion starts. So, what would be your recommendations?
Power supply/tank/batteries - I certainly don't want to drag my gear out to a dark spot, set it all up, and use it for a bit only to have my batteries die. Is there a portable power supply that's easy to use (and charge) that would last an entire night of viewing/shooting/tracking?
Hi, Laura.

I agree with the advice above: an 80mm f/6 refractor on an EQ6 would be an awesome way to get into DSO AP. You might have a hard time getting the smaller DSOs to look impressive, but there are lots of large DSOs to keep you busy until you are ready for a longer scope.

I'll skip giving you suggestions on eyepieces: I don't remember the last time I used one. ;) For filters, you might need some kind of light pollution filter depending on what your skies are like. You will most likely need one that filters out sodium and mercury light. There is nothing that will filter out LED or incandescent (including halogen) lighting.

I would recommend against getting narrowband filters (Ha, Sii, Oiii). Narrowband filters don't play well with DSLRs. Without modification, your camera will lose more than half the available Ha light. With narrowband filters, two out of the three colour channels will be producing only noise, so special processing will be needed. Wait for a later budget.

There are Oiii filters that are intended for visual observing rather than AP. They are not considered narrowband, though their bandpass is quite narrow compared to regular coloured filters. I have viewed through one at a star party, and it does make faint nebulae easier to see.

Your battery needs will depend on your equipment. If you are observing visually and are not using dew heaters, your battery needs will be quite modest. A 17 amp-hour (ah) battery, a common size, will last all night and have power left over. The more equipment you add, the bigger the battery you need. Dew heaters need a lot. Avoid the temptation to run off your car battery when out in the field. The last thing you need when you pack up at 4am is a dead car battery.

Automotive batteries are designed to deliver a ton of amps for a couple of seconds. They are not designed to supply power for hours. Ignore the "maximum amps" rating of any battery you get. What you need are amp-hours, not amps. If you are going to get a big battery, get a "marine" or "deep cycle" battery. They are designed to supply less amps for more time, and will give you a longer lifetime of use.

For smaller batteries, many people use car booster battery packs. As long as you avoid discharging them too deeply, they can be a cost-effective solution, even though they are the automotive rather than the marine type.
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
bailey hudson
Earth Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:20 pm
4
Location: Oklahoma
Status:
Offline

Re: Yet another newbie needs help post!

#9

Post by bailey hudson »


Hi guys. Wow. I'm a newbie myself. Never owned a telescope but I've always been fascinated by them. This has been a very insightful read. Now I'm even more excited of having one myself. Do you recommend any book or reading materials that can help me with research on what to look for and just to mainly help me on the concept of telescopes? Thank you so much in advance.
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “Beginners forum”