Navigating the Sky

[GONKO]

So last night I went to try find andromeda with my 8inch orion dob. I was running into some difficulties. I live in a light polluted area, I'd say about a 7 scale, and as I was looking up trying to find myself, looking through the scope it was picking up many more stars, and thus confusing me as to where I was in the sky.
Is this something that comes with experience.
I did manage to get a cloud of some sort, which looked like a distant galaxy....but upon researching, people say andromeda wouldn't fit in a 25mm eyepiece view, so perhaps not andromeda after all.
I'm a total newb and this was my first planned session to find a dso as andromeda was close to the zenith, so finding it I thought would be somewhat easy.....but no lol.

[OleCuss]

If you can, go to a star party! It is one of the best ways to learn to see stuff - there are usually expert observers who like nothing better than showing you how to find and to see stuff.

A lot of the stuff we look for may be described as "faint fuzzies". It can take a bit of practice to start to get the hang of it. Fortunately, an 8" Dobsonian has quite a bit of light-gathering and can show you a fair bit - even in light-polluted skies.

Yes, you will not see the entirety of the Andromeda Galaxy in a 25mm Plossl eyepiece, but you can see a lot of it so you may actually have been seeing that target.

[KathyNS]

I did manage to get a cloud of some sort, which looked like a distant galaxy....but upon researching, people say andromeda wouldn't fit in a 25mm eyepiece view, so perhaps not andromeda after all.

If you were following decent instructions for finding Andromeda, you probably found it. It is true that the whole of M31 will not fit into most eyepiece fields of view. However, unless you have excellently dark skies and a large aperture telescope, you can't see the whole thing anyway. You will only see the bright core.

Here is a typical photo of M31, and a version that is doctored to look like what you would see in an 8" scope under dark skies. Note that the field of view in these photos is larger than what any eyepiece will give you.

[GONKO]

Oh that's interesting. The second photo is pretty much what I saw last night. I live in a bortle 6 to 7 area....so perhaps it was what I could see of andromeda after all.
It's confusing me a little on what I should expect to see vs what the thing actually looks like based on astro photos and so on.
Uranus was high in the sky last night too, but had no idea how to locate it in its general area. I was trying to match up stars with sky safari and then looking through the scope there was way more stars in view, and I was feeling a little lost again.
And again, if I found uranus, I'd have no idea what it should look like in my scope as all I see are the NASA photos etc, which are obviously a little unrealistic vs my scope.

[Thefatkitty]

Hi Gonko,
My skies are bortle 6-7, and I had an 8" Skywatcher. The second image Kathy posted is pretty much what how I would see M31 through the 8" with a 25mm on a clear night. You probably did see it.
If you haven't already, download Stellarium or the like. My best friend for those nights out in the back.

BTW, I now have a 10" Skywatcher (long story) and that only turns it into a slightly larger blob And OleCuss is right; a star party would be great fun and a learning experience.

Good luck and all the best,

[KathyNS]

Uranus will be a small, greenish dot. Depending on your magnification, it may look starlike, or it may show a tiny disk. Tiny is the operative word here: if you see a disk at all, it will look almost as small as a star but not quite.

Neptune, should you decide to go after it, is blue. It is smaller than Uranus, so most scopes will show it as a starlike dot.

[Thefatkitty]

Oh that's interesting. The second photo is pretty much what I saw last night. I live in a bortle 6 to 7 area....so perhaps it was what I could see of andromeda after all.
It's confusing me a little on what I should expect to see vs what the thing actually looks like based on astro photos and so on.
Uranus was high in the sky last night too, but had no idea how to locate it in its general area. I was trying to match up stars with sky safari and then looking through the scope there was way more stars in view, and I was feeling a little lost again.
And again, if I found uranus, I'd have no idea what it should look like in my scope as all I see are the NASA photos etc, which are obviously a little unrealistic vs my scope.

I agree; we get spoiled by these Hubblesque images, and expect to see the same... unfortunately our eyes are not equipped for long exposure

This is pretty much bang-on; I know it made me feel better

Image1.png

All the best,

[Shabadoo]

I often consult DeepSkyWatch.com to confirm what I saw. It's a collection of sketches through an 8".

[helicon]

I'm pretty sure you saw the Andromeda Galaxy. There are a couple of resources that are good for beginners and experienced amateurs alike - the first is a book called Turn Left at Orion, which contains sketches of deep sky objects showing you what they look like at the eyepiece. Another is the Sky & Telescope pocket sky atlas, with very helpful sky charts indicating the location of hundreds of deep sky objects visible in backyard scopes.

[Thefatkitty]

I often consult DeepSkyWatch.com to confirm what I saw. It's a collection of sketches through an 8".

Not to take away from the OP, but I never knew about this site; that's great!
Thanks Jeff

[OleCuss]

Just wait until you get to some really nice, dark skies!

I've had several opportunities to observe at Glacier Point in Yosemite National Park. These are actually not the darkest of skies, but they are still very dark and it is at about 7,200 feet of elevation.

In that kind of location the Andromeda Galaxy can be seen without a telescope although for me it is just a fuzzy little patch. You put a nice 80mm refractor on that fuzzy patch and you'll have a gorgeous view of M31.

Use the 8" Dobsonian at Glacier Point and while your FOV won't be as big as you want - you'll find it a gorgeous view. Seriously, it will not be a faint fuzzy with the 8" Dob in that location. Similar story when I've been able to observe at the Grand Canyon star party. Not the darkest of skies where we were observing (but still very nice) but at altitude it was still wonderful!

Everyone should try from time to time to get to altitude with dark skies. It changes the skies a whole lot!

[OleCuss]

I should add one thing. When using a Dobsonian in an urban environment there is often significant benefit from using a light shield. It doesn't help with the glowing sky but it can cut down on the glare from nearby light sources. You can make one or you can buy one: https://www.highpointscientific.com/ast ... pes-az1201

[PalomarJack]

That was definitely M31, it spreads to almost 5 degrees at a dark sky location. With an 8" there you will easily see the dust lane between the core and M110, and probably more with experience.

All very good advice. I know I'm a little late to the party, but here is some more. First, some "bolt on" optical improvements. I am going out on a limb and conclude you have about an f/6. Get as low of power eyepiece as you can, say 32mm @ 52 degrees for 1.25 " focuser, that is the widest that fits a 1.25' focuser. If you have a 2" focuser, 38mm to 40mm at about 65, or more degrees apparent field. The 25mm you are using will get you at best about 1.1 degrees true field, a 2" 40mm will fetch about 2 degrees, at least. Much easier to find things. Both a sky glow and UHC filters. If you have a 2" focuser get them for a two inch eyepiece, I know the 1.25" ones are cheaper, but don't skimp here. The sky glow might help with stellar sources, like galaxies, in light polluted skies, but not as much as emission nebulae, save the UHC for those only. For planetary, get a couple of colored filters, skip 2" unless you don't want to, to save some money. Say light red and light blue and maybe yellow, too. to start. These increase contrast, Jupiter's red spot will look darker through a blue filter, for example. Both can be used to good effect on Mars and Saturn, too. The sky glow and UHC can be gotten on eBay quite cheaply. I know they are not as good as "name brand", but it's a start.

An old timers trick to ferret out a tiny planetary disk or planetary nebula is when you think you have the object in the field of a low power eyepiece without changing to high mag to be sure, very gently tap the side of the telescope with your finger. You will notice that as regular stars move in the field their scintillation will become more obvious, a planet or planetary nebula will not. It will be a similar appearance as comparing modern LED automotive tail lights to older ones, they seem to flicker, more properly "scintillate", as you move your field of vision. Give it a shot on a sparse star field, not a cluster, too many distractions in the field. I have even used this technique in locations where one might think the sky is very steady and Neptune sticks out like a bad suit.

How about an upgrade as long as you are not concerned about some handy-work. Install setting circles. That's right, setting circles. Do a search for "printable setting circles" for Dobson mounts, they are all over the web like a rash, usually PDFs. The cell phone or tablet application I use translates the equatorial coordinates to altitude-azimuthal coordinates needed for a Dobson mount on the fly. You will also need to input your exact coordinates on Earth for it to do it's job. You will also find an incredible wealth of information in this application, it's called Night Sky Tools. The listings for Messier, Caldwell, NGC catalogues AND major and some minor planates in it have the running alt-azmuth coordinates in real time. This amazing application will even tell you when Jupiter's red spot is visible. And the very best part is it's free. Finally, if you are stuck with a 1.25" focuser get a 2" as soon as possible. After seeing M42 in 2 degree field in that 8" at a dark sky location will convince you, you made a wise choice.