Looking For a Different Setup

[JayTee]

Just a point of clarification for you for future long exposure DSO imaging, if the mount is not a goto mount or does not have an ST-4 port then you will NOT be able to autoguide that mount. You can manual guide the mount, but that is a PITA you just don't want to experience.

But for now, it will do very well for planetary imaging.

JT

[Baskevo]

Awesome! I'm going to do it.

So recap:

Celestron Omni XLT 120 Refractor - $399.95
Meade LX70 EQ Mount - $299.99
Orion Dual Axis TrueTrack Telescope Drive - $169.99

This will allow me to track for DSO imaging (as long as I have good polar alignment), and get some good visuals in a light polluted area, and then eventually I'll be able to learn AP with this set up. Correct?

That brings me to $870. Other than a camera and what I will need to take pictures, is there anything else I need? Should I get a polar scope? Have any suggestions on what I should buy to replace the Celestron eyepiece kit?

[Baskevo]

Just a point of clarification for you for future long exposure DSO imaging, if the mount is not a goto mount or does not have an ST-4 port then you will NOT be able to autoguide that mount. You can manual guide the mount, but that is a PITA you just don't want to experience.

But for now, it will do very well for planetary imaging.

JT

Okay so I believe eventually I want to try to do 130 second exposure for DSO objects. I will need a mount that has the ability for goto so I can auto track? Is there a mount not too much more expensive that can do that, or will I have to spend a lot more money for that capability?

[Sky Tinker]

In future, you may want to consider adding a pier-extension. This one fits the Orion EQ-5, and it may also fit the Meade as well...

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Orion-S ... yword=pier

It also fits the CG-4, but I had mine cut down from its original 16" to about 8.5"...



Pier-extensions are generally for refractors only, particularly longer ones.

Later, once you become familiar with the mount, you might want to break it down, clean out the factory glue-grease and replace it with a quality grease. I use Super Lube. It makes a noticeable difference. For my own mounts, I also like to replace the red-fibre and plastic washers within with needle-thrust bearings and sintered- and phosphor-bronze.

[ARock]

AFAIK the Orion Dual Axis drive does not support autoguiding (no ST4 port) in case you were planning to do that.
The thumbrule for DSO AP is that the total payload scope+camera+guidescope etc be around 50% of max payload. That is the reason for the 50% columns in JTs spreadsheet. For the LX70 that is 10 lbs. Your scope itself is 12.5 lbs. Coupled with the long length of the scope (moment arm) this makes it challenging to do DSO AP with it on the LX70. The LX70 might be OK for visual/planetary AP with the 120mm though.

Another point, which might affect your decision, it has been rumored that the LX70 has been end of life d by Meade. For the past few months it had been available for $199 at some places. Not to say it is a bad mount, probably a decision by Meade to sell other mounts in this space. A lot of people grabbed it at $199 (I almost did). But you might have problems getting spare parts for it in the future though parts for other similar mounts might work.

[JayTee]

Okay so I believe eventually I want to try to do 130 second exposure for DSO objects. I will need a mount that has the ability for goto so I can auto track? Is there a mount not too much more expensive that can do that, or will I have to spend a lot more money for that capability?

At the focal length of XLT 120 (just shy of 1000mm) and weight of this OTA (12.5lbs), on a good night with an excellent PA you'll not be able to go for longer than 60-90 seconds. But, many a good DSO image has been taken using that exposure duration. Be advised though, that your ratio of images taken vs images used for post-processing will probably be around 50%.

If you want to go for longer exposures, your entry mount would be the Celestron AVX or the iOptron CEM25P or the SkyWatcher EQM-35. If you get one of these mounts, you won't need a new mount for quite a while.

Cheers,
JT

[Baskevo]

Okay, so not the LX70. Do you guys have any suggestions for a mount that will support the 120mm?

Will I need auto guiding for 130 second exposures? I will probably want to consider that if I want to do that later on, right?

But there probably is not a mount that will allow for long exposures with auto tracking and support 50% of the weight in my price range, huh (around $400 for the mount)?

[JayTee]

For $400 probably not, but don't discount (pun intended) the used market. Go onto CN classified or AM classifieds and do a bit of poking about. Deals are out there. I got my AVX mount from a Craigslist ad at a substantial savings.

Cheers,
JT

[JayTee]

If you are considering long exposure DSO AP (LEDSOAP) then you'll need to apply the 50% (but you can go a high as 60%) rule to the mount payload capacity. The XLT 120 weighs 12.5lbs and another 5lbs for imaging accessories - guide scope and camera, plus imaging camera at a minimum. So now you are at 17.5lbs for this setup. You'll need a mount with at least a 30lb capacity. BUT the XLT does not need to be your LEDSOAP imaging scope the vast majority of us a small (70-80mm) refractor for this kind of imaging.

Sometimes it's easier to get into visual astronomy, get your feet wet then dive into the ultra-deep and expensive AP pool.

Cheers,
JT

[Baskevo]

You will have very good views of the planets and will see MANY DSOs (remember the darker the location the more DSOs you will see). You will have to find the targets yourself and then you can easily track it manually just by turning the RA knob or can track automatically by attaching the motor. You will have to polar align the mount, which is very easy to do for visual use. It is a little more difficult to align it for imaging as it must be much more precise. You will have to learn to do a drift alignment (not hard but it is a little lengthy) and will need a reticle eyepiece for the precise alignment.

So the tracking motor will allow me to track the objects manually, but I won't be able to stack the images basically because it won't be as precise as a goto tracking system. So the best can do with a mount similar to the LX70 is one, 130 second exposure of a DSO. Am I understanding that correctly?

[Ozman]

Okay, so not the LX70. Do you guys have any suggestions for a mount that will support the 120mm?

Will I need auto guiding for 130 second exposures? I will probably want to consider that if I want to do that later on, right?

But there probably is not a mount that will allow for long exposures with auto tracking and support 50% of the weight in my price range, huh (around $400 for the mount)?

If you are going to want to eventually get into auto-guiding and lengthy exposures (and carry the AP endeavors further than you initially intimated) then you will have to seriously consider a better mount and a higher budget. If you're going to carry it that far (or at least have the option to do so) you will need an AVX at the very least which on sale is slightly more than double your budget.

As noted, you can get a good deal buying used, but it helps to know what you are getting if you go that route.

[Ozman]

You will have very good views of the planets and will see MANY DSOs (remember the darker the location the more DSOs you will see). You will have to find the targets yourself and then you can easily track it manually just by turning the RA knob or can track automatically by attaching the motor. You will have to polar align the mount, which is very easy to do for visual use. It is a little more difficult to align it for imaging as it must be much more precise. You will have to learn to do a drift alignment (not hard but it is a little lengthy) and will need a reticle eyepiece for the precise alignment.

So the tracking motor will allow me to track the objects manually, but I won't be able to stack the images basically because it won't be as precise as a goto tracking system. So the best can do with a mount similar to the LX70 is one, 130 second exposure of a DSO. Am I understanding that correctly?

No. The hand knobs on the mount will allow you to track manually by turning the knob with your hand, this is only for visual use. Once you attach the motor, the tracking is automatic and just as precise as a goto mount (providing the same polar alignment of the mount) and allows you to do multiple exposures for you to stack and process, it just won't automatically slew to the target.

[Baskevo]

You will have very good views of the planets and will see MANY DSOs (remember the darker the location the more DSOs you will see). You will have to find the targets yourself and then you can easily track it manually just by turning the RA knob or can track automatically by attaching the motor. You will have to polar align the mount, which is very easy to do for visual use. It is a little more difficult to align it for imaging as it must be much more precise. You will have to learn to do a drift alignment (not hard but it is a little lengthy) and will need a reticle eyepiece for the precise alignment.

So the tracking motor will allow me to track the objects manually, but I won't be able to stack the images basically because it won't be as precise as a goto tracking system. So the best can do with a mount similar to the LX70 is one, 130 second exposure of a DSO. Am I understanding that correctly?

No. The hand knobs on the mount will allow you to track manually by turning the knob with your hand, this is only for visual use. Once you attach the motor, the tracking is automatic and just as precise as a goto mount (providing the same polar alignment of the mount) and allows you to do multiple exposures for you to stack and process, it just won't automatically slew to the target.

Okay so what I indicated before, with the dual-axis motor, I'll be able to do like minute to 2-minute long exposures, and that will be good enough to get some decent shots to learn how to process and stack images? Again, I just want something that will allow me to use a DSLR and get some good shots so I can learn and play around with. Something better than my iPhone lol

Ozman, I think you had the right idea before of what I originally intended -- something basic that will allow me to get long exposures when I get a DSLR, so I can show off to friends and family. I basically just want some color and some cool shots of DSOs. A DSLR with the setup I posted should be good enough, right? I will be able to learn AP on that setup, and then if I decide to upgrade to a better mount later in my life, I will be able to right?

I want to make sure I get everything I can now without having to spend a bunch more later on (on like getting a different mount, for instance, besides the camera). So is there a mount, in my price range, that will allow the dual-axis motor (not goto) and support double the weight of my telescope and the DSLR?

This is probably the most intricate thing I have even purchased, this is nuts! haha

[Ozman]

The CG4 will NOT allow you to get LONG exposures or do any auto-guiding. It will allow you to do beginning AP of 1-2 minutes to learn with and stack images and totally BLOW AWAY anything that you can do with the phone. You can make some very nice images of many of the brighter DSOs. There will be some work and learning, trial and error associated with it. There will be quite a few wasted exposures (it is NOT an optimal set up after all), but there will also be quite a few good exposures that you will stack and process and create a work of art.

You will be able to later upgrade to a better mount, or you could upgrade to a better imaging scope (short fast APO or ED refractor) for this mount. You have a LOT of options, but this set up will get you started just fine and it will also be nice to use visually.

[ARock]

A simple solution might be to buy an additional cheap 80mm F/5 achromat (Meade Adventure 80, costs $90) put rings and dovetail on it and use it with the CG-4/LX70 with a DSLR for AP. It will have some false color, but since you are in learning mode you can overlook that or try to fix it in postprocessing. Getting to 120s exposures will be easier on this than the 120mm F/8 scope because of the large image scale on the 80mm. The 80mm is much lighter, so it will work well on the mount.

You should also google EAA with Sharpcap which does "live stacking" of short exposures and displays an image in "near real time" on a computer which is much more detailed than visual. Not quite AP, but might serve your purpose.

[ARock]

The CG4 will NOT allow you to get LONG exposures or do any auto-guiding.

If you build your own motor drives with ONSTEP electronics and commercial stepper motors it will. Such drives will probably cost less than the Orion dual axis drive. But there are a lot of DIY components in it, so it is not something you can buy directly and use.
There are also hacks to add a ST4 port to a dual axis drive controller.

But I think if one is going the ONSTEP route the LX70 will work better than the CG4, as mounts like it are more common in the ONSTEP world.

[Baskevo]

EAA looks pretty cool. I'm going to check that out when I get my new scope!

I'm going to go with the 120mm, but I'm going to shop around for mounts. If you guys have any suggestions for a mount good for the 120mm around or under $400, let me know!

I am expecting a lot of work and learning, trial and error for anything I get, especially when it comes to working with a DSLR or even Sharpcap. I kind of think that is part of the fun, and I'm excited to learn.

[Baskevo]

So the more I think about it, the more I wonder if the extra money would be worth it. are the better $800 mounts worth it, even for a beginner? I assume I will have a lot to learn, but if it makes it easier to learn and I can get some better shots like I see you guys posting up, I am seriously considering it.

Realistically, if I were to drop $1500 on the scope, mount, camera, and whatever accessories I need. After learning and developing some skill, will I'll be able to get some great shots in my super polluted skies?

[JayTee]

The $800 mount does not make learning AP any easier. What it does do is give you far fewer headaches. The frustration level from the $800 mount is significantly less than the current mounts you are looking at.

A $1000 set up or a $2000 or even a $5000 set up will all give you equally crappy images in a terribly light polluted location. The only thing that cures terrible light pollution is narrow band imaging. But this is an entirely different and much more expensive ball of wax.

JT

[Baskevo]