Looking For a Different Setup

[Baskevo]

Hi guys! I am brand new to astronomy and to this forum, and I was hoping I could get some advice. I posted these questions on the old forum, but I know a lot of the members have moved here, so I hope it is okay if I post it here too!

So I recently purchased a Celestron Nexstar 130 SLT, and others have pointed out that I might appreciate a different telescope. From the research I had done, it seemed like a good choice for my price range because of the decent-sized aperture and the motorized mount, but I might have jumped the gun. I have had it for a week, and other than the overwhelming shaking of the mount, it is pretty cool to be able to see a bit of Jupiter, its 4 moons, and Saturn, and to get some really cool pictures of the moon on my iPhone. I can barely make out the great red spot, but I cannot make out the Cassini division on Saturn's rings. I think I might have made out a messier, but I wasn't 100% sure (it looked like a smudge on the glass). I would like to do more with a telescope, if it is possible!

I live in Orange County, CA, where there is a lot of light pollution (it is like an 8 or 9 on the Bortle scale, if I am to understand that correctly). I do not know if this is possible where I am located, but I would like to be able to view Saturn and Jupiter in as much detail as possible, and I would also like to see some DSO without driving 2 hours to the nearest dark sky. Also, I would especially like to have the option to learn astrophotography when I get more experienced and can afford a decent camera, which seems impossible with my super shaky 130 SLT.

My price range is between $500 - $550, but I think I can shill out a bit more if you guys think it is worth it. I got a few responses on the other forum suggesting I look into getting an Orion Dobsonian 8" or 10" (Orion skywatcher 8", Skyquest XT8I, and Skywatcher 10"). Those seem really cool. Others suggested 120 refractors (Orion Omni XLT 120) with an equatorial mount.

So, here are some questions--

Would it even be worth it to shill out $650 for a dobsonian with an 8" or 10" aperture and a GoTO mount in the area that I am in? It is not that I am not willing to drive the 2 hours for dark skies, I just want something that I can use in my backyard and see some cool stuff and maybe take some pictures.

With what I want to do in mind (Planets, DSOs, astrophotography eventually), do you guys have an opinion on what would be the better option for me in my area? What advantages would a dob give me over a refractor, or vice versa? I know these questions are probably answered somewhere, but I do not know what information applies to only dark skies and what doesn't, and sometimes I even see conflicting information (likely due to personal preference).

I read that having the motorized GoTo mount is super helpful for heavy light polluted areas. Is that true? I am willing to forgo it if the extra cost is too high, especially if it will cost me the ability to do astrophotography later on.

I am sure the different scopes do different things, and I am probably asking for too much for my area. I also understand that astrophotography is extremely complicated, but I am totally willing to learn. I feel as though astrophotography would allow me to get the most out of a telescope. If I have the ability to take some cool pictures to show off to family and friends, I will have a reason to take my telescope out most nights, you know what I mean?
So, should I focus on getting a telescope that is dedicated to astrophotography, even though it might take me a while to learn? Or should I buy something that will give me the best views? I know that has a lot to do with personal choice, but is it even worth it in my area to pursue astrophotography?

I know this is a lot (hopefully not too much). This is a large investment for me. I am really excited about astronomy, especially after the taste I have had this last week, so I want to make sure I get the absolute best thing I can get for me.

I totally appreciate everyone's time and energy, and thank you in advance if you respond to this. I have a lot to learn and am excited to learn from you guys. I am looking forward to exploring the universe with you all!

[helicon]

For the moon and planets, any level of light pollution should not make much of an impact on the views - that's why they are a favorite of urban astronomers. Also, star clusters are revealed pretty well even from the backyard. So I would initially focus on these classes of objects. Hanging a weight from your mount should help dampen out the vibration allowing more pleasing views without the shakes.

Brighter DSOs such as galaxies and nebulae also should be visible, not as good as they would appear from darker skies but some of them fall within the aperture range of your scope, such as M17 (visible now) and M31 (visible now if you want to stay up really late, otherwise it is a Fall object).

In general I would recommend sticking with your new scope for awhile as you learn the ropes of visual astronomy. Then I would consider upgrading to an 8" or 10" Dob which will reveal more detail on the planets such as Cassini's division. Keep in mind that poor seeing will reduce the amount of details you can see on the planets.

With regard to AP, it requires a significant investment in gear (running into the few thousands of dollars) so I would recommend learning the night skies first with the naked eye and your scope. Also, consider getting a pair of 7x50 binoculars. Not a good night goes by when I don't use mine. They will reveal a surprising amount of objects and can help you identify things you want to observe in your scope.

Most of all, good luck!

-Michael in Northern California

[smp]

Just so you know, Stellarview has a significant sale going on right now:

https://www.stellarvue.com/stellarvue-limited-offers/

Good luck!

smp

[Juno16]

In general I would recommend sticking with your new scope for awhile as you learn the ropes of visual astronomy. Then I would consider upgrading to an 8" or 10" Dob which will reveal more detail on the planets such as Cassini's division. Keep in mind that poor seeing will reduce the amount of details you can see on the planets.

With regard to AP, it requires a significant investment in gear (running into the few thousands of dollars) so I would recommend learning the night skies first with the naked eye and your scope. Also, consider getting a pair of 7x50 binoculars. Not a good night goes by when I don't use mine. They will reveal a surprising amount of objects and can help you identify things you want to observe in your scope.

Most of all, good luck!

-Michael in Northern California

I agree with Michael. Consider using the 130SLT.
I added an Orion Accufocus motor (<$100) to the focuser on my 130SLT to make it hands free. Works great. I also added a Celestron WiFi module (<$100) so that I could run the nights adventures with my iPhone or iPad. Really cool.

Once you have dabbled for awhile, try out a new eyepiece or two. Stay away from anything less than a 5mm though. With a 5mm eyepiece, the magnification will be at 130x which I rarely have been able to use.

AP is an entirely another expense level. Once you have learned the fine art of “observing “, then go after AP if your budget allows.

Lots of great resources and talented individuals here on this site to help.

Thanks,
Jim

[sdbodin]

I am sure the different scopes do different things, and I am probably asking for too much for my area. I also understand that astrophotography is extremely complicated, but I am totally willing to learn. I feel as though astrophotography would allow me to get the most out of a telescope. If I have the ability to take some cool pictures to show off to family and friends, I will have a reason to take my telescope out most nights, you know what I mean?
So, should I focus on getting a telescope that is dedicated to astrophotography, even though it might take me a while to learn? Or should I buy something that will give me the best views? I know that has a lot to do with personal choice, but is it even worth it in my area to pursue astrophotography?

Your comments above are the reason I do astronomy, I can take those DSO images I saw from the Palomar bigeye back in the '50's from my backyard. BUT, it cost the price of a new car to do that and the equivalent of a college education to learn the ropes. If your hopes are more modest, about 3 time your budget is what I would call minimum.

Minimum equipment as follows; Equatorial tracking mount, Apochromatic refractor ( 70-100mm) sufficient, Astro camera, Narrow band filter set.

Notice I left off the standard DSLR as an option. Reason, your light pollution, you will need to penetrate that to see those faint fuzzie objects.

OK, enough bad news, good news, you can see plenty with your scope, just don't limit yourself to those faint fuzzies or tiny planets. Star cluster are easy and double star can consume a lifetime to observe, I spent 20 years on them alone. And, of course, the moon.

Good luck,
Steve

[SkyHiker]

Steve has it right, for AP in your location you need to go narrow band (if you can stand those colors) so count on $3K at the very least or more like $4K with filter wheel, astro cam etcetera. For planets in their full glory get an 11" SCT for $5K or so. You will be disappointed with a 10" Dob for planets but if you want to go to a dark site and view DSOs it's probably not bad.

[Baskevo]

Thank you for all the tips, guys.

So, everything I have been able to do so far with the 130 SLT is after hanging somewhere around 10 lbs. from the tripod, I have tightened all the screws, and only extend the mount at about 30%. That helped a little (I think), but it is still extremely hard to focus and I cannot touch the telescope without it shaking still. I was thinking of getting the anti-vibration pads, but those don't seem like they will make a huge difference either. I have read that the problem is the weight limit. I have been using a phone adapter to catch some photos and keep my iPhone steady, and other than the moon I cannot get a stable picture without video of Saturn or Jupiter, and even then there is only white light and blurry shots.

I have already purchased new eye pieces, which came with color filters and between 6 mm and 32 mm Plossl eyepieces, plus a 2x Barlow. It helps with the mag of Jupiter and Saturn, and the 32mm helped me find the faint fuzzy messier, but again I can barely see it nor any details of planets.

Lastly, even with all the adjustments to the mount and adding the weight, I feel if I wanted the option to do astrophotos with my SLT 130 and a DSLR, even if it would cost me a lot of money over a lot of time, it would be very difficult to do with my scope. I have read that my scope is at its weight limit, and that is why it is extremely shaky. I figured it would be a whole new expense level to get into astrophotography, and I definitely want to learn more before I am willing to invest into that which will take me a while, but I do want to have the option with this scope. I am willing to try the autofocuser and the wifi module, but I want to make sure that I have the right scope, first. But even with just viewing, I am wondering if there is not a better option for my backyard.

Someone told me that from the comfort of my home, a larger aperture, without go-to, can help quite a bit. Do you guys not think it will make much of a difference in my area?

Lastly, on the old forum, someone recommended The ZWO ASI120MC-S camera to get started and to learn the software and stacking and stuff. What do you guys think? Would that be a waste? Would I not be able to able to get some better pictures than what I can get with my iPhone, for less money than going full astrophotographer right now?

From what I can gather, it seems like I am asking for too much with my budget and won't be able to do much more than starclusters and faint fuzzies in my backyard...

thank you guys for all of your help again, I really appreciate it.

[Ozman]

If you're going to stay anywhere near budget, I would either get an 8" manual Dob and forget about imaging until later on or get one of the Celestron Omni refractors on the CG4 mount and add a tracking motor. I just wouldn't put the effort into trying to image with the 130SLT.

[SkyHiker]

If I had to choose a budget AP and visual setup I would go for a 6" Mak Newt on an AVX. No flattener needed, feels like a 6" Apo, for about $1500 you would be set, works well for visual too. Or an 8" astrograph with coma corrector on an AVX if you are really good, I don't know how well that works for visual.

[Bigzmey]

I have radical solution for you. You are in OC. Join our club - Orange County Astronomers. Besides having a wonderful dark site, and fun events like star parties and beginner astronomy classes, we have a scope rental program. I just checked the inventory and we have everything from 90mm refractor to 8" SCT to 12" DOB.

This way you can try different scopes at your back yard and decide what to buy. You can also come to the star parties and look through all kind of scopes.

Here is our website.
https://ocastronomers.org/

[Ozman]

I have radical solution for you. You are in OC. Join our club - Orange County Astronomers. Besides having a wonderful dark site, and fun events like star parties and beginner astronomy classes, we have a scope rental program. I just checked the inventory and we have everything from 90mm refractor to 8" SCT to 12" DOB.

This way you can try different scopes at your back yard and decide what to buy. You can also come to the star parties and look through all kind of scopes.

Here is our website.
https://ocastronomers.org/

This is by FAR (WAY FAR!!) your best option!!

[SkyHiker]

Well.. you have the fever, we've all been there. Gotta have it now. It's nonsense. Soon you will get to the point where you wonder if you have to drag the dang thing out there again for some stupid fuzzies. I hate to encourage returns for people who expect to be seated at first rank for $500 or so. But if you are serious about AP simply return it and follow my earlier advice. Having said that, if you are willing to join the dark site adventure that 130 SLT might be fine. It's a nice grab and go but not much more and no good for AP. Star parties are nice but you want your own thing so increase yor budget by $1K and you can have something better than a few confused star gazing compulsions that will only last a few nights.

[Baskevo]

I have radical solution for you. You are in OC. Join our club - Orange County Astronomers. Besides having a wonderful dark site, and fun events like star parties and beginner astronomy classes, we have a scope rental program. I just checked the inventory and we have everything from 90mm refractor to 8" SCT to 12" DOB.

This way you can try different scopes at your back yard and decide what to buy. You can also come to the star parties and look through all kind of scopes.

Here is our website.
https://ocastronomers.org/

I am definitely interested in joining this club. Although, it looks like the next meeting is not until next month, is that right?

[Baskevo]

If I had to choose a budget AP and visual setup I would go for a 6" Mak Newt on an AVX. No flattener needed, feels like a 6" Apo, for about $1500 you would be set, works well for visual too. Or an 8" astrograph with coma corrector on an AVX if you are really good, I don't know how well that works for visual.

Hey so unfortunately, $1500 is too far out of my budget I looked up an 8" astrograph, and this came up: Orion 8" f/3.9 Newtonian Astrograph Reflector Telescope

Is that what you are talking about, SkyHiker? Because that would be in my budget (around $500).

[Ozman]

Hey so unfortunately, $1500 is too far out of my budget I looked up an 8" astrograph, and this came up: Orion 8" f/3.9 Newtonian Astrograph Reflector Telescope

Is that what you are talking about, SkyHiker? Because that would be in my budget (around $500).

That is just the cost of the scope tube alone, you would still need a coma corrector and a mount, the very least of which (and it's really too light weight for this scope) would be an AVX for just under $1000. That's the $1500 Henk is talking about. But the astrograph is not a very good visual scope, great for taking pictures, just not very sharp visually.

[Baskevo]

Also, would the Celestron Omni XLT 150 Telescope (about $100 more) be better for me? Does anyone have any thoughts about this scope?

[sdbodin]

Sounds like you are moving too fast. Step back, evaluate, absorb, read. You don't want to jump in too fast and waste a pile of bucks. And astrophotography IS a pile of bucks.

Check out the Astrophotography section of this forum and pay particular attention to the images that you feel are good. Then make note of the equipment used and the length of exposure and the location of the imager. You probably will find that the minimum investment is at least 3 times your budget, the exposures last hours, not seconds, and the imagers are in rural locations.

I don't want to discourage you, this is a lifetime hobby and very rewarding, but remember, what is in the sky right now will be there next year and the years after. Deep space doesn't go anywhere.

Go outside tonight and tomorrow night and looks for the meteors, no scope required, that's what I'll be doing.
Steve

[Ozman]

Also, would the Celestron Omni XLT 150 Telescope (about $100 more) be better for me? Does anyone have any thoughts about this scope?

It's not a bad option, although I would never have a Newtonian reflector on an EQ mount. This is just a personal preference as the eyepiece ends up in some very awkward positions. Also it will not come to focus with a DSLR, the primary mirror would need to be moved closer to the focuser for that. You will need to get a CMOS camera like a ZWO imager if left as is for any imaging. You would also need a coma corrector for imaging and it will help the visual views as well.

[Baskevo]

Sounds like you are moving too fast. Step back, evaluate, absorb, read. You don't want to jump in too fast and waste a pile of bucks. And astrophotography IS a pile of bucks.

Check out the Astrophotography section of this forum and pay particular attention to the images that you feel are good. Then make note of the equipment used and the length of exposure and the location of the imager. You probably will find that the minimum investment is at least 3 times your budget, the exposures last hours, not seconds, and the imagers are in rural locations.

I don't want to discourage you, this is a lifetime hobby and very rewarding, but remember, what is in the sky right now will be there next year and the years after. Deep space doesn't go anywhere.

Go outside tonight and tomorrow night and looks for the meteors, no scope required, that's what I'll be doing.
Steve

Yes. Reading and absorbing is most of what I have been doing.

I'm not trying to spend thousands of dollars, I was just looking for a simple set up that can help me learn the ropes, but will have the capabilities to allow me to take photos later on, or even now with a cheap camera if it is possible. I'm not trying to get stellar images to end up on NASA's website, just some cool shots of some planets to show my friends and family. I already have some iPhone shots of the moon, and blurry pictures of Saturn and Jupiter that look cool, so I was looking for something to get a bit more detail out of Saturn and Jupiter. I was also just wondering if there is a better setup to be able to see some DSO in my area.

I know the 130 SLT is supposed to be good for DSO's, but again I would like a little more detail, if that's even possible in my area.

I had a terrible experience tonight. I don't know if the batteries are dying (I've only been using it for a week, but I've used it every night for a few hours), but I was getting so mad! It started out fine while looking at the moon and Saturn, but then like an hour in when I tried to find a messier the motorized mount literally took over and I could not get it to stop moving upward. I had to shut it off to get it to stop. I let it sit for a bit, then I turned it back on and it did the same thing during alignment. I turned it off again and was able to get through the alignment process, but alignment kept failing and then it would do it again as I tried to move it with the motorized mount. I moved a few feet, I leveled it again, and the same thing kept happening. I spent an hour trying to get it to align and stop, but I finally gave up. It was horrible.

So with the shakiness and whatever happened tonight, even if I can't get a better scope for what I'm trying to do, I think I'm going to send it back.

[Sky Tinker]

I can't use a go-to where I live; too many trees, for one. I have heard that using AA batteries in general can cause issues like that, particularly if the batteries are rechargeable(Ni-MH). A set of 8 Ni-MH rechargeables amounts to only 9.6 volts, which underpowers the mount, and which needs 12 volts rather to operate properly. There is a way to use the 1.2V rechargeables however, and in creating a customised 10-battery pack; 10 x 1.2V = 12V.

If you are using rechargeables, try a set of Lithium-type disposables, and see if that corrects the problem. If it does correct the issue, then you might want to consider a 12-volt powertank to power the mount, ultimately; for example...



...but only if you plan to keep the kit.