AP gear (for the future)?

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#21

Post by SkyHiker »


turboscrew wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:06 am
OzEclipse wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:18 am Some good advice here. Your 120 mount is supposed to have a very low PE (3"?). I know you had some teething problems. If the mount is now working well and you want to start with shorter exposures of brighter objects, I suggest you buy the primary camera only. Try some lucky imaging without any autoguider, repeated short exposures, throw out any bad ones.

Examine the errors you are getting. Try to decide between drive precision and flexure. You may need to use an off axis guider or you may be able to use a guide scope. I would get the main camera first and investigate the mount's performance before deciding whether to go with off axis guiding or a guidescope.

Another approach is to buy a cheap guide camera (ASI120 or QHY5-ii) first but no guide scope. Use that to test the AP performance of the OTA, focuser accuracy, and the mount drive precision before investing a lot of money into a dedicated astro camera.

Cheers
Joe
I'm not sure if I got the mount problems fixed. I haven't got a chance to try it, because, when I got the tweaking done, it was already summer = warm and light nights.
Maybe I'll get a main camera first, and see where that takes me.
Actually an autoguider is very helpful for identifying hardware problems. Namely, through the error graph. It shows periodic behavior, how much RA bounces around, how your PA is. You can turn the control off to see the errors without control. So I would get one. How much is an ASI120MM mini with OAG anyway.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#22

Post by OzEclipse »


If you have a basic DSLR or mirrorless, you can have a look at PE without any fancy gear. Set up the mount, get it very roughly polar aligned but don't precisely align it so you get dec drift. Then take a series of 30 sec photos with no gap between exposures for at least the period of the worm. Noise red off and use manual 30s exp on continuous shooting mode. stack all the images in lighten mode and you'll get a plot of the PE.
This photo shows such a picture from my EM-200 and iOptron iEQ45 mounts. The image scale is 3" per pixel. At this scale, the EM 200 is hard to pick, maybe 6" but I need to do it with a much longer FL. The iOptron is about 51 arc sec p-p or ±26 arc sec. Guess which one I use for visual and which for AP. :lol: :lol: :lol:
EM200-iEQ45 PE plots copy.jpg
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#23

Post by JayTee »


Hi Joe,

That’s an interesting exercise worthy of future experimentation. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#24

Post by OzEclipse »


JayTee wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:34 am Hi Joe,

That’s an interesting exercise worthy of future experimentation. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Hi JayTee,

This method was discovered by "accident" in 1996. I was out photographing comet Hyakutake on film, with extended exposures. The comet was moving relative to background stars and so I was manually tracking on the head in RA and DEC. When I developed the film and printed, the trailed stars were little wiggly lines which I realised was recording the PE.

Fast forward 25 years. A friend bought a new Losmandy G11 on my recommendation for a good heavy duty accurate astrophotography mount in a certain budget. Early this year, he thinks he is having PE problems- eggy stars but he only has a DSLR. I remembered this and suggested this method to him.

Last month, I'm writing workshop notes on tracked astrophotography for a three night live-in workshop on using motorised trackers. I tested my own mounts to illustrate the method that people who only have a small tracker and a DSLR could use to estimate their PE.

If cloud ever clears and it stops raining, I'm going to repeat the EM200 at an 1800mm focal length. The EM200 track shifts +/- 1 px from one line of pixels so it could be 6" or 9". Needs that longer FL to resolve it. These were both done at 300mm with 4.7 micron pixels, approx 3" per pixel.

Cheers

Joe
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
Eyepieces: TV Naglers 31, 17, 12, 7; Denkmeier D21 & D14; Pentax XW10, XW5, Unitron 40mm Kellner, Meade Or 25,12
Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#25

Post by turboscrew »


Hm, I'm getting into "evatulation"-mode again (acting in quite indecisive manner).
If I might, later on, go with more "colourwise accurate" imaging, that works with filter wheel and mono camera?
If so, then, would it be better idea to get a cheaper colour camera first, to learn the basics?
Then upgrading wouldn't hurt that much (financially).
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#26

Post by sdbodin »


turboscrew wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:46 pm Hm, I'm getting into "evatulation"-mode again (acting in quite indecisive manner).
If I might, later on, go with more "colourwise accurate" imaging, that works with filter wheel and mono camera?
If so, then, would it be better idea to get a cheaper colour camera first, to learn the basics?
Then upgrading wouldn't hurt that much (financially).
Exactly the route I took. Everybody needs a good OSC camera for those quick shots, like a comet and an eclipse, either kind. Or just between weather fronts to get a conjunction wide field, or the moon hovering near the horizon. Color cameras are very useful.

Actually, OSC cameras are getting so good that mono might just fade away into history.
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#27

Post by turboscrew »


sdbodin wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:24 pm
turboscrew wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:46 pm Hm, I'm getting into "evatulation"-mode again (acting in quite indecisive manner).
If I might, later on, go with more "colourwise accurate" imaging, that works with filter wheel and mono camera?
If so, then, would it be better idea to get a cheaper colour camera first, to learn the basics?
Then upgrading wouldn't hurt that much (financially).
Exactly the route I took. Everybody needs a good OSC camera for those quick shots, like a comet and an eclipse, either kind. Or just between weather fronts to get a conjunction wide field, or the moon hovering near the horizon. Color cameras are very useful.

Actually, OSC cameras are getting so good that mono might just fade away into history.
Steve
How to get the "scientific" colours with a colour camera? I thought that you use HA, OIII and SII filters for that.
That also makes false colours easier. (I guess you do that usually with SII?)
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#28

Post by OzEclipse »


They are starting to sell trIi band filters which are filters with three narrow band passes that can be used with colour one shot cameras. These are not yet as good as single bandpass no narrowband filters but they are getting better all the time.
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
Eyepieces: TV Naglers 31, 17, 12, 7; Denkmeier D21 & D14; Pentax XW10, XW5, Unitron 40mm Kellner, Meade Or 25,12
Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#29

Post by sdbodin »


turboscrew wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:07 pm

How to get the "scientific" colours with a colour camera? I thought that you use HA, OIII and SII filters for that.
That also makes false colours easier. (I guess you do that usually with SII?)
I shoot HA and OIII narrow band filters very successfully with my ASI1600MC OSC camera, I don't have an SII. But, I convert the output to mono and then re-color with my own preference. For Hydrogen, the Balmer series, I use the following 100% red, 20% green, 40% blue, for the 'forbidden' Oxygen I use 50% green, 50% blue and zero red.
Na_rgb_hargb.jpg
Above, OSC then OSC plus Ha overlay as described above.

Good luck in your quest and research, spend time not money,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#30

Post by turboscrew »


sdbodin wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:39 pm
turboscrew wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:07 pm

How to get the "scientific" colours with a colour camera? I thought that you use HA, OIII and SII filters for that.
That also makes false colours easier. (I guess you do that usually with SII?)
I shoot HA and OIII narrow band filters very successfully with my ASI1600MC OSC camera, I don't have an SII. But, I convert the output to mono and then re-color with my own preference. For Hydrogen, the Balmer series, I use the following 100% red, 20% green, 40% blue, for the 'forbidden' Oxygen I use 50% green, 50% blue and zero red.

Image

Above, OSC then OSC plus Ha overlay as described above.

Good luck in your quest and research, spend time not money,
Steve
Aahh, THAT explains...
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#31

Post by turboscrew »


What would you say about ASI 294 MC as the first main camera?
https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-c ... r_1_select
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#32

Post by OzEclipse »


Nobody can answer that.
It depends what you want to photograph?
At prime focus of your VX12, it's field is 37x54 minutes and each pixel is sampling 0.8"

Cooling is less of an issue for you since you can't photograph during summer and winter is, well, cold in the land of santa claus

Think about what you want to shoot and whether tis will do it?

Joe
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
Eyepieces: TV Naglers 31, 17, 12, 7; Denkmeier D21 & D14; Pentax XW10, XW5, Unitron 40mm Kellner, Meade Or 25,12
Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#33

Post by turboscrew »


OzEclipse wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:28 am Nobody can answer that.
It depends what you want to photograph?
At prime focus of your VX12, it's field is 37x54 minutes and each pixel is sampling 0.8"

Cooling is less of an issue for you since you can't photograph during summer and winter is, well, cold in the land of santa claus

Think about what you want to shoot and whether tis will do it?

Joe
What I want to shoot? Like any total beginner: everything. :lol:
(I guess deep sky and planets.)
But I don't even know the size of the primary focus image (sensor size).
And I don't know how to tell what a camera can do. I have no idea about the criteria.

And yes, if the temperature is above 15°C, it'll be too bright. When it's dark enough, the temperature is usually between -10°C and 10°C. If it's colder, I the temperature limits the use of the gear - including the mount.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#34

Post by OzEclipse »


Turbo,

The sensor is 13x19mm and the pixel size is 4.7 micron.
At prime focus of your VX12, focal length 1200mm, the field of view of the sensor is 37x54 minutes and each pixel is sampling 0.8"

Joe
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
Eyepieces: TV Naglers 31, 17, 12, 7; Denkmeier D21 & D14; Pentax XW10, XW5, Unitron 40mm Kellner, Meade Or 25,12
Cameras : Pentax K1, K5, K01, K10D / VIDEO CAMS : TacosBD, Lihmsec.
Cam/guider/controllers: Lacerta MGEN 3, SW Synguider, Simulation Curriculum SkyFi 3+Sky safari
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#35

Post by turboscrew »


After a quite long search (tried a couple of times earlier too) I found this:
https://agenaastro.com/articles/guides/ ... guide.html

I think I'm starting to understand.
Is it so, that for "magnification" you use barlows/reducers, like eyepieces in visual?
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#36

Post by OzEclipse »


Turboscrew

For deep sky photography, most people don't use barlows. Everything at the prime focus or behind a coma corrector in a Newt, Field flattener reducer in a refractor or SCT.

I'm not a planetary photographer so this is only based on what I have read not personal experience.

I believe that planet photographers mostly use Televue Powermates to extend the focal length of their instruments to several metres.

Example : On your scope with a 4x powermate you will have 4800mm focal length the discs of Jupiter and Saturn.

Jupiter 50". Image size = Focal length x planet diameter (radians) = 4800 x 50/206265 = 1.16mm about 250 pixels on the 294

Saturn 20" Image size = Focal length x planet diameter (radians) = 4800 x 20/206265 = 0.46mm about 99 pixels on the 294

Each 4.7 micron pixel is sampling 0.2 arc seconds. If your seeing is as bad as you say, then this might be overkill. Generally, planet photographers aim for cameras with tiny pixels and very small sensors capable of very high frame rates. The opposite of what you want for deep sky, a big sensor, cooled and low noise giving the capacity for longer exposures.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#37

Post by OleCuss »


You don't necessarily have to guide at all. Keep your subs short and do a bunch of them. Stack 'em and process (takes longer than if you have just a few subs). Tracking errors will lose you a little of your FOV in the final image but that may be an acceptable trade-off.

I'm not saying that you should not guide. Just that you don't have to do so. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. And if you try doing AP and are happy without guiding then you don't need to pay the extra to do that. If you are unhappy with un-guided AP you then add the guider.

When I was starting AP I was persuaded that I had to do the guiding and got a system for that. I went over setting it all up and decided that I just didn't want to deal with the complexity and never did use a guide system. I did some decent work without a guide system. Figured out that I just don't like doing AP (didn't want my astronomy time to be a technical exercise and I hated the processing) - and quit doing that so maybe I just don't have the right perspective anyway. . .

One other thing, however? While there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing AP with a focal length of 1200mm, it can be a whole lot more frustrating than is imaging at a focal length of maybe 600mm or less. You've got great gear for the try, but I was never quite so brave as to try anything like that.
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#38

Post by turboscrew »


OzEclipse wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:41 pm Turboscrew

For deep sky photography, most people don't use barlows. Everything at the prime focus or behind a coma corrector in a Newt, Field flattener reducer in a refractor or SCT.

I'm not a planetary photographer so this is only based on what I have read not personal experience.

I believe that planet photographers mostly use Televue Powermates to extend the focal length of their instruments to several metres.

Example : On your scope with a 4x powermate you will have 4800mm focal length the discs of Jupiter and Saturn.

Jupiter 50". Image size = Focal length x planet diameter (radians) = 4800 x 50/206265 = 1.16mm about 250 pixels on the 294

Saturn 20" Image size = Focal length x planet diameter (radians) = 4800 x 20/206265 = 0.46mm about 99 pixels on the 294

Each 4.7 micron pixel is sampling 0.2 arc seconds. If your seeing is as bad as you say, then this might be overkill. Generally, planet photographers aim for cameras with tiny pixels and very small sensors capable of very high frame rates. The opposite of what you want for deep sky, a big sensor, cooled and low noise giving the capacity for longer exposures.

Joe
Thanks, I'm gradually getting the idea. I was wondering about the planets...
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#39

Post by turboscrew »


OleCuss wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:21 am You don't necessarily have to guide at all. Keep your subs short and do a bunch of them. Stack 'em and process (takes longer than if you have just a few subs). Tracking errors will lose you a little of your FOV in the final image but that may be an acceptable trade-off.

I'm not saying that you should not guide. Just that you don't have to do so. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. And if you try doing AP and are happy without guiding then you don't need to pay the extra to do that. If you are unhappy with un-guided AP you then add the guider.

When I was starting AP I was persuaded that I had to do the guiding and got a system for that. I went over setting it all up and decided that I just didn't want to deal with the complexity and never did use a guide system. I did some decent work without a guide system. Figured out that I just don't like doing AP (didn't want my astronomy time to be a technical exercise and I hated the processing) - and quit doing that so maybe I just don't have the right perspective anyway. . .

One other thing, however? While there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing AP with a focal length of 1200mm, it can be a whole lot more frustrating than is imaging at a focal length of maybe 600mm or less. You've got great gear for the try, but I was never quite so brave as to try anything like that.
Thanks. @SkyHiker also suggested trying without guiding first.
And yes, I did some rough calculations, and realized that my focal length gives quite some restrictions.
When it comes to frustrations, I'm an embedded SW engineer - I'm addicted to frustrations. :wink:
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Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#40

Post by SkyHiker »


Joe has a good point about the cold where you are. Getting everything set up is not easy and by the time you are ready you may be too cold to continue especially when learning. Starting with a DSLR is the easiest, everything is on board. Not so with an astro camera. Once you take that leap you should probably start thinking about more gear like an autoguider, autofocuser and controlling it all. For that I built my Medusa (a search should find it: a Pi4b, 7 port USB hub and 12 to 5 V converter), which is a tremendous time saver for setting it all up. In your cold climate you have to reduce your setup time as much as possible then continue to control your gear remotely. You will need many practice sessions especially at 1200 mm. The setup I have works well,
I can set everything up quickly thanks to the Medusa and Ekos provides everything I need. Again for a DSLR you don't need this but once you add an astro camera that needs a computer fof focusing, if you want to plate solve for accurate polar alignment and goto setup, you may want to rig something up now and start practicing.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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