Observing Jupiter & Saturn on a poorly aligned Nextstar 8 SE with an Equatorial wedge.

[Peacemakeresq]

Astronomy Session 7/14-15/2020 9:00PM to 12:10 AM. Low to mid 70s Clear cool
neighbors back steps light off Obs Saturn &Jupiter (C 8 SE) pieces 2” 40mm, 32 mm, Meade 21, & 15mm Celestron 2.5 Barlowe & Baader 3rd
attempt to use Celestron equatorial wedge, mixed results good observing w/ all eye pieces in aided w/ Barlow. Barlow was acceptable w/ Celestron 2” 40 mm & 32 mm also w/ Meade 21 saw bands of Jupiter & spot in lower left of planet. Saw 2 distinct bands of Saturn. Focusing good tracking once in view acceptable. Could not align telescope well enough to locate planets in eye piece automatically. I have trouble aligning the telescope on the Meridian, because of the 1 fork tripod. What is the best way to insure the telescope is pointing a sufficiently straight plane from North to South? Visual alignment possible with laser pointer and finder scope. Good night. More satisfying than both of my last 2 outings.

[Lady Fraktor]

A nice session
Out of curiosity are you just a visual observer?
If so I would remove the wedge as it is just complicating things needlessly.

[gcisko]

A nice session
Out of curiosity are you just a visual observer?
If so I would remove the wedge as it is just complicating things needlessly.

I just wanted to say this is an absolute fact. The wedge is only useful for imaging to prevent object rotation during long exposures. However, please note you should not be doing that with a single fork mount anyway!

So if you are just visual observing, the stock alt-az mount of the SE series is by far the best option. For one thing alignment is easy and the second thing is the eyepiece is always in the same relative position.

[Peacemakeresq]

Thanks y’all. I intend to image, that’s why I bought the wedge. I am going to purchase the Celestron 6.3 focal reducer for my Canon Rebel t3i. I am probably a few months off from making that move. In the interim I intend to learn how to use the wedge effectively, suggestions?

[mikemarotta]

You had a good session! " ... neighbors back steps light off..." Yeah, no kidding... I have the same problem.

Sorry that I cannot help you with the wedge. I do have an EQ mount (small Celestron 130 mm), and I align it to north with my cellphone as my compass. Close enough, as I am not imaging (much), just viewing. I did photograph the Moon this past winter. That was with the EQ 130 and an iPhone 5. Last week, I finally got a publishable image of the Moon with my new iPhone 11 and an 8-inch Maksutov. It only took five hours over four nights to get it down right.

[Peacemakeresq]

Very cool. I am looking forward to taking some pics as soon as I can sort out the wedge issue and purchase the focal reducer. In the mean time I should look into using my phone to take pics. I also use my phone compass and Polaris to try to align the wedge. Slow going.

[JayTee]

In the interim I intend to learn how to use the wedge effectively, suggestions?

I have the Celestron HD Pro Wedge for my CPC 1100 so here's what you can do to get used to using it.

1. Work on your polar alignment routine.
2. Work on your polar alignment routine.
3. Work on your polar alignment routine.

The elaboration:

• a) always have a leg on your tripod that you designate as the "North" leg. Pointing this leg to true North (also known as the NCP) will make it easier to coarse align the mount.
• b) if you set up at the same spot all the time, find/make a ground reference that gets you very close to pointing to the North Celestial Pole (NCP).
• c) make sure that when you place the wedge onto the tripod, the azimuth east-west adjustment screws are set to their midway point to give equal distance of adjustment on either side of the NCP.
• d) getting to know your mount's ASPA (All-Star Polar Alignment) routine is important and so is understanding which way the scope moves when you make either an altitude or azimuth adjustment.
• e) after you have completed the ASPA, recycle the mount's power so you have to do another "goto" alignment from scratch. After that goto alignment, you can check the accuracy of the adjustments you've just made on your HC. Doing this before you recycle power shows that you are spot on the NCP (this is a LIE!) -- recycle power.
• f) try to get closer than 5 arcminutes to the NCP for AP purposes.

All of these points will start to make more and more sense once you start practicing your polar alignment routine.

I'm sure you have questions.

Cheers,
JT

[Peacemakeresq]

Thanks for the tips. Here is how I proceeded the night of my latest observations: 1. Once outside with the telescope I used both my phone compass and Polaris to point my tripod insignia designated leg due N. The Wedge’s balance window was the center point I used to line up the leg and point the scope. I will note that the eye piece was on the side pointing N. 2. I cycled through the 2 star Equatorial N procedure. The 2 stars that were offered by the program were 1. Vega & 2 Arcturus. When I looked straight up pretty much at the zenith I am confident I was looking at Vega, it was immediately to the right of the star that was at the right corner of Draco’s head. It was discernible brighter than the surrounding stars. However when I looked through either the eyepiece or my star finder while I did see stars, none was discernible brighter than the others. I was not have luck. Lining it up. One thing I am sure I did not do is align the East & West Azimuth screws in the middle of their respective slots. I am not getting your HC reference. I will try to select the same spot every time I go out in the future , but so much of where I set up is dictated by where the planets are in relation to my yard, trees and neighborhood lights are obstacles to the best views given the time of night and who may turn on what light. I also found that I had more success pointing my laser pointer at Arcturus than I did at Vega. Something about the near 180 degree view. I just couldn’t see the dot properly. My Raci Finder was equally useless with Vega. Still once I manual located both Saturn or Jupiter they tracked relatively well in my eye piece. I will make the adjustments you suggested and proceed. Let me know what I am missing from your suggestions. Thanks.

[mikemarotta]

" However when I looked through either the eyepiece or my star finder while I did see stars, none was discernible brighter than the others."
You might not have had Vega. The telescope reveals many stars not visible naked eye in the city. However, I can agree (sight unseen) that you did because I notice the same thing with Antares. When I have it in the ocular, I have to check to make sure because it sometimes does not just stand out so bright as it does naked eye. Context helps: we see with our minds.

"... so much of where I set up is dictated by where the planets are in relation to my yard, trees and neighborhood lights..."
Right. Same here. You get used to the landmarks after a few go-arounds.

You're doing great. Hang in there.

[Peacemakeresq]

Thanks Mike, will do.

[gregl]

I would not use both Vega and Arcturus together as alignment stars. Right now they are on opposite sides of the meridian. The SE is built with spur gears which have backlash and working both sides of the meridian reveals the looseness of the spur gears. When you are east of the meridian the gears are pushing the scope up; west of the meridian the gears are pushing the scope down. But the slop in the gears is such that the scope will not maintain it's target when transitioning from east to west. A solution for that is to put a weight on the end of the scope so it will always be down against the gears regardless of which side of the meridian you are on. Sounds confusing perhaps but if you visualize spur gears lifting something, you can imagine that if the item being lifted is always down against the gears, it will always be in the same relative relationship, but if the item is being lifted vs. being pushed down rather than let down, the slop in the gears becomes an issue.

I have the same scope sans wedge and have my best luck with alignment using Polaris and whatever is in the east about 45 degrees from Polaris and about 45 degrees off the horizon. I would not use a star near zenith for alignment regardless due to the backlash issue.

For more about correcting the SE mount for backlash, see what you can find here: https://www.nexstarsite.com/OddsNEnds/Backlash.htm

[Peacemakeresq]

I will try your various solutions and employ the best one for my situation. Not tonight though, pretty cloudy here. Clear Sky’s gregl

[Peacemakeresq]

Astronomy Session 7/29/2020 9:44PM Low 80s Clear warm
neighbors back steps light off Obs Saturn &Jupiter (C 8 SE) pieces 2” 40mm, 32 mm, Meade 15mm Celestron 2.5 Barlowe & Baader Mark 4 Zoom 4th
attempt to use equatorial wedge. Good results good observing w/ all eye pieces in aided w/ Barlow. Barlow was acceptable w/ Celestron 2” 40 mm & 32 mm also w/ Meade 21 saw bands of Jupiter’s spot not visible. Saw 2 distinct bands of Saturn. Focusing good tracking good until the end of session. I think the power tank was getting depleted. in view acceptable. The alignment process took about 15 minutes. Then it stayed functional for about an hour an 40 mins. Aligned the scope with Arcturus as Star 1 & Vega as star 2. Properly aligned and went straight to Saturn, pretty well centered off the solar system menu. Observed with the Celestron 40 mm & 32mm & then used 2.5x Celestron Barlowe with both eye pieces. Could not see Jupiter’s spot. No matter what filter I used. I used a Celestron Visual alignment possible with laser pointer and finder scope. Good night. More satisfying than both of my last 2 outings.

[gregl]

Astronomy Session 7/29/2020 9:44PM
... Could not see Jupiter’s spot. No matter what filter I used. ...

Glad things are working out.
Are you sure the GRS was visible during your observation time? According to my source (Sky Safari) it was not visible until about 1:30 a.m. Pacific Daylight time that night.

[Peacemakeresq]

Well that may be the answer. I was in the House well before 1:00AM EST

[gregl]

Well that may be the answer. I was in the House well before 1:00AM EST

There ya go. According to Sky Safari, at that date and time (EST) the GRS would have disappeared around 9 p.m. and not been back while Jupiter was above the horizon.