At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

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chris_g
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At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#1

Post by chris_g »

Hello all,

A rather simple question or perhaps not. At what brightness level does the Moon really begin to affect DSO AP? Are there any filters that can help to limit it. I know that would be kind of difficult when it's glowing white since white is all colors combined. I've seen moon filters that lower the brightness though those are advertised as visual aides.

Thanks for any thoughts...

Clear Skies!
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#2

Post by Bigzmey »

I am not into AP, but most of my astro club members are. I know a couple of guys who shoot on occasion emission nebulae using OIII and H-beta filters even when Moon is up. Other than that when Moon is up our dark site is deserted, nobody shooting.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#3

Post by Juno16 »

Hi Chris,

You are shooting OSC and there sure are some options.

I get marginal results when I shoot broadband even with a lp filter (I use a IDAS LPS D-1 as it works well with Na vapor lighting).

With my Optolong L-eNhance, I get pretty decent results (to me anyway) even with a very bright moon.

A recent image of the Heart nebula imaged over two partial nights with a 95% and 90% illuminated moon.

I have heard that the Optolong L-eXtreme is even better, but I am happy with the results from the L-eNhance.

IC1805 The Heart Nebula Final.jpg
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
Mounts: Celestron AVX, Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro (on the way)
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
Camera / Software: ASI 533 mc pro, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, N.I.N.A., PHD2, SharpCap Pro, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#4

Post by chris_g »

Juno16 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:58 pm Hi Chris,

You are shooting OSC and there sure are some options.

I get marginal results when I shoot broadband even with a lp filter (I use a IDAS LPS D-1 as it works well with Na vapor lighting).

With my Optolong L-eNhance, I get pretty decent results (to me anyway) even with a very bright moon.

A recent image of the Heart nebula imaged over two partial nights with a 95% and 90% illuminated moon.

I have heard that the Optolong L-eXtreme is even better, but I am happy with the results from the L-eNhance.


Image
I'm using the L-Pro, will look at the charts again and see what nm range differences are between it and the L-Enhanced. Thanks for the info and that image looks awesome.
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
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Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#5

Post by chris_g »

Juno16 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:58 pm Hi Chris,

You are shooting OSC and there sure are some options.

I get marginal results when I shoot broadband even with a lp filter (I use a IDAS LPS D-1 as it works well with Na vapor lighting).

With my Optolong L-eNhance, I get pretty decent results (to me anyway) even with a very bright moon.

A recent image of the Heart nebula imaged over two partial nights with a 95% and 90% illuminated moon.

I have heard that the Optolong L-eXtreme is even better, but I am happy with the results from the L-eNhance.
Opt has all three charts on one page, making it easy to do the comparison

https://optcorp.com/products/optolong-l ... ter-2-inch

I looked at the L-Enhance and the L-Extreme, the L-Extreme actually block the blue and orange wave lengths where as the L-Enhance blocks just the orange. I remember now why I chose the L-Pro over the L-Enhance as it lets in more color in the higher end of the visual frequency range, orange and red, I do like color. :) I believe the L-Extreme would most likely block the Seven Sisters and their reflection nebula as they transmit primarily blue.

After reviewing those charts again, I think I would go with the L-Enhanced for imaging DSO with a bright moon in the sky. It's amazing what I've learned these past few months and I know I've only just begun to scratch the surface, thank you. Now I also understand what APT means by NB Time as it starts at astro-twilight end. Narrow band filters are blocking the moon's light was well...

Right now, I think I am going to try an imaging run in full moonlight on the Seven Sisters using the L-Pro with the same exposure and number of images as I did last time and see how it turns out, those were taken with no moon in the sky. Experimentation!!!
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
Eyepieces : Plossl 1.25" 25mm LE, 1.25" 5mm LE, Hyperion Modular 1.25/2.0" EP Set - 5mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm
Cameras : Canon T3i, 18-55mm F3.5 to 5.6, 28-135mm F/3.5 to 5.6, Nifty Fifty F/1.8, ZWO ASI120MM Mini, Samsung Note 20 Ultra, 7mm, F/1.8
Filters: ZWO EFW Mini, 5 position filter wheel, Optalong L Pro Canon EOS C
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#6

Post by Juno16 »

chris_g wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 am
Opt has all three charts on one page, making it easy to do the comparison

https://optcorp.com/products/optolong-l ... ter-2-inch

I looked at the L-Enhance and the L-Extreme, the L-Extreme actually block the blue and orange wave lengths where as the L-Enhance blocks just the orange. I remember now why I chose the L-Pro over the L-Enhance as it lets in more color in the higher end of the visual frequency range, orange and red, I do like color. :) I believe the L-Extreme would most likely block the Seven Sisters and their reflection nebula as they transmit primarily blue.

After reviewing those charts again, I think I would go with the L-Enhanced for imaging DSO with a bright moon in the sky. It's amazing what I've learned these past few months and I know I've only just begun to scratch the surface, thank you. Now I also understand what APT means by NB Time as it starts at astro-twilight end. Narrow band filters are blocking the moon's light was well...

Right now, I think I am going to try an imaging run in full moonlight on the Seven Sisters using the L-Pro with the same exposure and number of images as I did last time and see how it turns out, those were taken with no moon in the sky. Experimentation!!!

Chris, you might have mentioned this before, but is your Canon astro modified?
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
Mounts: Celestron AVX, Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro (on the way)
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
Camera / Software: ASI 533 mc pro, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, N.I.N.A., PHD2, SharpCap Pro, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Sky: Bortle 7
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#7

Post by chris_g »

Juno16 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:04 am
chris_g wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:42 am
Opt has all three charts on one page, making it easy to do the comparison

https://optcorp.com/products/optolong-l ... ter-2-inch

I looked at the L-Enhance and the L-Extreme, the L-Extreme actually block the blue and orange wave lengths where as the L-Enhance blocks just the orange. I remember now why I chose the L-Pro over the L-Enhance as it lets in more color in the higher end of the visual frequency range, orange and red, I do like color. :) I believe the L-Extreme would most likely block the Seven Sisters and their reflection nebula as they transmit primarily blue.

After reviewing those charts again, I think I would go with the L-Enhanced for imaging DSO with a bright moon in the sky. It's amazing what I've learned these past few months and I know I've only just begun to scratch the surface, thank you. Now I also understand what APT means by NB Time as it starts at astro-twilight end. Narrow band filters are blocking the moon's light was well...

Right now, I think I am going to try an imaging run in full moonlight on the Seven Sisters using the L-Pro with the same exposure and number of images as I did last time and see how it turns out, those were taken with no moon in the sky. Experimentation!!!

Chris, you might have mentioned this before, but is your Canon astro modified?
No it's not modified, wife would have a fit if I did that even if we don't use it any more for everyday stuff. :) And the cost for a modified Canon is about the same on EBay as what it would cost me to modify mine as well. I figured I would save my pennies and get a dedicated astro camera when I'm ready for that leap. I want a ASI 2600MM but that is a LOT of pennies and then there are the filters for even more pennies!
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#8

Post by Juno16 »

Ok. Good to know.

I didn’t think of asking you about mods when I was talking about the L-eNhance and L-eXtreme. Both filters probably wouldn’t be a good choice without a Ha modded or full spectrum sensor.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 Triplet APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO
Mounts: Celestron AVX, Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro (on the way)
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor, Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, Orion SSAG, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF
Camera / Software: ASI 533 mc pro, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, N.I.N.A., PHD2, SharpCap Pro, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#9

Post by chris_g »

Juno16 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:46 am Ok. Good to know.

I didn’t think of asking you about mods when I was talking about the L-eNhance and L-eXtreme. Both filters probably wouldn’t be a good choice without a Ha modded or full spectrum sensor.
Good to know, I'll might end up getting a modified Canon before I get an actual astro camera, they are less expensive by far. And now I understand more about what the different modifications actually do for them.
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
Eyepieces : Plossl 1.25" 25mm LE, 1.25" 5mm LE, Hyperion Modular 1.25/2.0" EP Set - 5mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm
Cameras : Canon T3i, 18-55mm F3.5 to 5.6, 28-135mm F/3.5 to 5.6, Nifty Fifty F/1.8, ZWO ASI120MM Mini, Samsung Note 20 Ultra, 7mm, F/1.8
Filters: ZWO EFW Mini, 5 position filter wheel, Optalong L Pro Canon EOS C
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#10

Post by Star Dad »

I'm amazed that you get such good images with a near full moon, Juno. I will have to try doing some nebulae next full moon. <chuckle> Inevitably, full moon = clear skies and new moon = total clouds. Of course lately its just been clouds. My one nights use of the L-enhance filter showed me its possibilities but I used it when the moon was not yet up over the horizon.
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#11

Post by chris_g »

Star Dad wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:47 pm I'm amazed that you get such good images with a near full moon, Juno. I will have to try doing some nebulae next full moon. <chuckle> Inevitably, full moon = clear skies and new moon = total clouds. Of course lately its just been clouds. My one nights use of the L-enhance filter showed me its possibilities but I used it when the moon was not yet up over the horizon.
Check the charts on the L-Enhanced and L-Extreme, every wave length is blocked except for a very narrow band, would also block the vast majority of the moon's reflected light from the Sun up in the yellow and orange, unlike my L-Pro. APT has a time allotment in the app called Narrow Band time. It starts at astro twilight end whether the moon is up or not. Makes sense.
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
Eyepieces : Plossl 1.25" 25mm LE, 1.25" 5mm LE, Hyperion Modular 1.25/2.0" EP Set - 5mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm
Cameras : Canon T3i, 18-55mm F3.5 to 5.6, 28-135mm F/3.5 to 5.6, Nifty Fifty F/1.8, ZWO ASI120MM Mini, Samsung Note 20 Ultra, 7mm, F/1.8
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#12

Post by Star Dad »

Check the charts on the L-Enhanced and L-Extreme, every wave length is blocked except for a very narrow band, would also block the vast majority of the moon's reflected light from the Sun up in the yellow and orange, unlike my L-Pro. APT has a time allotment in the app called Narrow Band time. It starts at astro twilight end whether the moon is up or not. Makes sense.
Are you referring to this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_US&gl=US
"To be good is not enough when you dream of being great"

Orion 203mm/f4.9/1000mm, converted TASCO 114mm/f9/1000mm to steam punk, Meade 114mm/f9/1000, Coronado PST, Orion EQ-G, Ioptron Mini-Tower and iEQ30, Canon 70D, ASI120MM,ASI294MC
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#13

Post by chris_g »

Star Dad wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:32 pm
Check the charts on the L-Enhanced and L-Extreme, every wave length is blocked except for a very narrow band, would also block the vast majority of the moon's reflected light from the Sun up in the yellow and orange, unlike my L-Pro. APT has a time allotment in the app called Narrow Band time. It starts at astro twilight end whether the moon is up or not. Makes sense.
Are you referring to this app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... n_US&gl=US
Yes.

An excerpt from that page.
To image or observe a faint deep sky objects is needed to use the darkest time of the night. This is the time between the evening astro twilight end, the morning astro twilight beginning and when the Moon is below the horizon. In APT that time is named DSD Time - Deep Sky Darkness Time. If the imaging is through narrow band filters, the Moon is less significant factor and important is the time between the astro twilights. This time is named NB Time - Narrow Band Time.
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
Eyepieces : Plossl 1.25" 25mm LE, 1.25" 5mm LE, Hyperion Modular 1.25/2.0" EP Set - 5mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm
Cameras : Canon T3i, 18-55mm F3.5 to 5.6, 28-135mm F/3.5 to 5.6, Nifty Fifty F/1.8, ZWO ASI120MM Mini, Samsung Note 20 Ultra, 7mm, F/1.8
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Re: At what brightness does the Moon really start to affect DSO AP

#14

Post by chris_g »

After researching some more for my current project, The Pleiades Star Cluster, would not benefit from a NB filter in an attempt to limit the moon's brightness, my L-Pro and a moonless sky are the best combination for my location. Also, until I have a full spectrum camera, narrow band filters would not be of great assistance either. So, for the time being I will be focusing on star clusters and constellations, I like star fields and constellations. What a better way to learn the sky! Thanks @Juno16 for the nudge in returning to what I have already looked at with the additional knowledge I've obtained since then. Knowledge is power.

Clear Skies!
Backyard Bortle scale 7 32.40874, -93.66932
Mounts : Sky Watcher EQ6-R Pro,
Scopes : Sky Watcher ED80 APO Doublet w/ED80 Reducer Corrector 0.85x
Guide Scope : Orion 60mm Multi-Use Guide Scope w/12.5mm illuminated reticle
Finder Scopes : Baader Planetarium Sky Surfer III Red Dot, Sky Watcher 8x50mm Viewfinder
Eyepieces : Plossl 1.25" 25mm LE, 1.25" 5mm LE, Hyperion Modular 1.25/2.0" EP Set - 5mm, 8mm, 10mm, 13mm, 17mm, 21mm, 24mm
Cameras : Canon T3i, 18-55mm F3.5 to 5.6, 28-135mm F/3.5 to 5.6, Nifty Fifty F/1.8, ZWO ASI120MM Mini, Samsung Note 20 Ultra, 7mm, F/1.8
Filters: ZWO EFW Mini, 5 position filter wheel, Optalong L Pro Canon EOS C
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