AP gear (for the future)?

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SkyHiker United States of America
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#61

Post by SkyHiker »


turboscrew wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:36 am I've been playing with the SW most of the evening, and I came to the same conclusion: "Replace everything, but the main mirror. Well, what the heck, replace that too." :lol:

I wonder... the 75% diameter is supposed to be 44.7 mm.
Would ~20 mm sensor still work?
My 12" F/4 has a 3.25" focuser and an 88 mm secondary (the latter from a GSO mirror page as the suggested diameter). While I said I have strong vignetting in the corners, it is only on a very small part of the edge. And the Paracorr II has a very long tube compared to your CC. Nevertheless it works out fine, while collimation helps keep the vignetting tolerable. You may still be OK with a smaller sensor like the 20 mm you mentioned.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#62

Post by OzEclipse »


turboscrew wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:36 am I've been playing with the SW most of the evening, and I came to the same conclusion: "Replace everything, but the main mirror. Well, what the heck, replace that too." :lol:

I wonder... the 75% diameter is supposed to be 44.7 mm.
Would ~20 mm sensor still work?
Yes small sensor will definitely work well. The illumination drops away gradually from the 100% radius to the 75%. So at 20mm I'd guess the illumination will probably be about or better than 90%.
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Amateur astronomer since 1978...................Web site : http://joe-cali.com/
Scopes: ATM 18" Dob, Vixen VC200L, ATM 6"f7, Stellarvue 102ED, Saxon ED80, WO M70 ED, Orion 102 Maksutov, ST80.
Mounts: Takahashi EM-200, iOptron iEQ45, Push dobsonian with Nexus DSC, three homemade EQ's.
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#63

Post by turboscrew »


Played with @Ozypic's formuli again.
Looks like ASI 2600 and Neximage 10 would complement each other nicely (using some barlows).
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#64

Post by turboscrew »


Would it be a good idea to start with Celestron NexImage 10?
Price 409 €
Size of chip (mm) 6,4 x 4,6
Pixel size 1,67
Min. exposure time 0,0001
Max. exposure time (min) 0,6 ( = 36 s)
Operating temperature (-40°) - (+40°)
Interfaces USB 3.0
Images per second 200
Packet mode and Streaming mode
Connects to tube with 1.25" nose piece
Flange focal distance (mm) 13,1 (with nosepiece)

This could, of course, be used only for quite small targets (max 13 arc minutes).

Then get another, bigger sensor camera later, when I have better idea of what I want.

BTW, ZWOs seem to have temperature ranges -5°C to +45°C.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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sdbodin United States of America
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#65

Post by sdbodin »


Seems pricey, I use a QHY5L-II color $150, the latest craze amongst the planetary gurus is the ASI462, $249.

Just 2 cents, worth every penny,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#66

Post by turboscrew »


sdbodin wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:54 pm Seems pricey, I use a QHY5L-II color $150, the latest craze amongst the planetary gurus is the ASI462, $249.

Just 2 cents, worth every penny,
Steve
QHY5L-II color:
"Pixel size 3,75"
About the same as in ASI 2600. Just smaller chip.

ASI 462:
Pixel size 2,9
Size of chip (mm) 5,6 x 3,2
Operating temperature (-5) - (+45)

For me ASI 462 would mean image scale 0.50"/pix when it's 0.29"/pix with NexImage10.
Jupiter would be about 80 pix when with NexImage it would be about 139 pix.

In NexImage10 the maximum exposure time of 36 seconds just makes me wonder...
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#67

Post by sdbodin »


Shoot at f20, seems to be the sweet spot for planetary work. You'll need a 5x barlow to get there at your f4 native scope. I get by with a 2x barlow at f10 native. Shot with QHY5L-II color below, note, not too good, I'm not a planetary imager, just a occasional snapshot.
jup_22may_16f20.jpg
Just trying to save you some bucks,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#68

Post by turboscrew »


sdbodin wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:36 pm Shoot at f20, seems to be the sweet spot for planetary work. You'll need a 5x barlow to get there at your f4 native scope. I get by with a 2x barlow at f10 native. Shot with QHY5L-II color below, note, not too good, I'm not a planetary imager, just a occasional snapshot.

Image

Just trying to save you some bucks,
Steve
If that picture is not good, I don't know what is!

My idea is to get around restrictions due to my tube by having 2 cameras. One for small objects (first) and one for bigger objects (later). I don't think there is a single camera, that could handle all - or they are filthy expensive, and I'm not selling my car to get a camera. :lol:

Without barlows, ASI2600 has image scale 0.64 "/pix, Jupiter would be 63 pix
ASI462 has scale 0.50"/pix, Jupiter is 80 pix.
NexImage has scale 0.29"/pix, Jupiter is 139 pix.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#69

Post by turboscrew »


What would you think about this as the first (planetary/small object) camera?
https://www.astroshop.eu/astronomical-c ... r_1_select
Costs 329 eur.
The same chip (IMX178) as in ASI 178 MC. (Costs 449 eur)
A small chip (7.4 mm x 4.9 mm) and pixel size 2.4um. Rolling shutter (32 us - 16 min).
Could be used as guide(?) (I'm thinking of off-axis).

A camera with bigger chip and bigger pixel size later - maybe even mono + filter wheel.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#70

Post by JayTee »


At this point, it's not the camera that determines the quality of your lunar / planetary images. It's the quality of the seeing conditions and the size of your telescope. This camera will do just fine for your stated purpose.

Cheers
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#71

Post by turboscrew »


I finally made a decision: I ordered the Omegon veLOX 178 C. I guess it's good for guiding camera too, in case I'll go forward and get a deep sky camera with bigger sensor later.

I think the important specs for me (at the moment) are:
Size of chip (mm) 7.4 x 4.9
Pixel size 2.4
Resolution Photograph (Pixel) 3096 x 2080
Interfaces USB 3.0, ST4
Supported operating systems Windows 7/8/10 (Linux through INDI)
Connection (to the telescope) 1,25"
Filter thread yes (1,25")
Flange focal distance (mm) 12.5
Software included in product contents
Operating temperature -10°C - +50°C
Binning 2x2, 3x3, 4x4 (Digital)
€ 329.00 incl. VAT

I do realize, how limited that is due to that small chip size.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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turboscrew
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Re: AP gear (for the future)?

#72

Post by turboscrew »


The Omegon veLOX 178 C arrived today. Let's see when I get a chance to try it out.
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

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