Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

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Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#1

Post by Frog »


Hi everyone!
I'm a very very new 14yo 'astrophotographer' and I'm having some issues with the Orion Nebula and I hope this forum could help,
I'm working with:
•Celestron 114GT
•Canon 40D
(No tracker)

I cant find the nebula in my camera; When I point my scope at Orion's sword, I see pairs of stars but I don't know which is the nebula. I can find it using eyepieces without the camera but it seems that the camera images are too dark to see anything that I can see with my eye.
What would be helpful is if somebody could post an image of what a short (1 second) exposure of the nebula looks like.

Also, when I take the photos of what I think is the nebula, I can only see faint dots and a tonne of noise. I can't see the glow of the nebula through the camera like I can with my eye.

I don't have any massive expectations, I just want to learn how to get better :)

Thank you!
:Astronomer1:



Below is an image of what I can see through my camera (hopefully pointed at the nebula) on a 1 second exposure with 1600 ISO (The two very faint blue dots is what I believe is the nebula)
_MG_1618.jpg
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#2

Post by realflow100 »


try turning the iso up. the image is very very dark. you should be able to see way more stars before you even begin seeing the nebula. it will be very noisy. but thats normal. dont worry about the noise too much.
You'll need a longer exposure too. 1 second is not really sufficient. try 5 seconds as well. the stars might look blurry or trailing but at least you can tell if you can see anything or not.
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#3

Post by yobbo89 »


1 sec might be fine for a f5 scope or faster, but your scope is f9 it is collecting photons alot slower, this combination of camera settings and a slow scope will make it extreamly hard even for the brightest targets .

even if you max out your camera iso ,i still think it will be hard to produce a result at 1sec
you're going to need time and that means tracking .. , your other option is a focal reducer but usualy you need signifcan't focuser travel.

btw do you have a 200mm or simular camera lense and a tripod ?
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#4

Post by SkyHiker »


Some people tried this with a non-tracking scope and were successful with 1-second images by stacking lots of them. I believe they had the camera at prime focus, for which you need a T adapter. The 1.25" focuser will cause vignetting with a DSLR. But you will capture more photons I think than when you do it afocally (I presume that's what you did, just hold the DSLR in front of the eyepiece). So if you can capture enough images while M42 is still in view in raw mode, stack it in DSS and use its editor, or any other 32 bit editor, you should be able to achieve something. Of course this painful method only works for very bright targets so what you really need is a tracking mount, or a DIY barndoor tracker with a 200 mm lens if magnification is not that important.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#5

Post by Frog »


Thank you!
I have a software to remove vignetting, so thats not really an issue
I also have a T-ring, which is what I used to take that stunning and well detailed shot as mentioned above lol

Thank you for your reply :)
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#6

Post by SkyHiker »


Frog wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:55 pm Thank you!
I have a software to remove vignetting, so thats not really an issue
I also have a T-ring, which is what I used to take that stunning and well detailed shot as mentioned above lol

Thank you for your reply :)
The proper way to deal with vignetting and dust motes on the sensor is to shoot flats. Just 1 second shots of a white wall out of focus will do, take 20 or so, and load them in DSS. BTW the vignetting with a 1.25" also cuts down the total amount of light as opposed to a 2" but let's get you down the rabbit hole later.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#7

Post by helicon »


Welcome to TSS Frog...
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#8

Post by chris_g »


From one newbie to another, listen to SkyHiker and the rest of the folks, they're telling you straight. It's also a lot of trial and error, so don't get frustrated. I had a devil of a time to get my camera to live focus, took me several sessions to figure out what the issues are.
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#9

Post by chris_g »


chris_g wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:42 pm I had a devil of a time to get my camera to live focus, took me several sessions to figure out what the issues are.
I'm assuming you're trying to focus with Live View on your camera and you're not seeing anything in the live view.

First you have to be near focus to see anything in Live View. Set your camera to manual and crank up your ISO to the max your camera will support, set your exposure to 30 seconds then turn on live view. You have to be near focus to see anything to begin with in Live View, so I focused on a distant light source from me, a neighbor's street light a few blocks away worked. Then point your scope at your target. Hopefully if you are getting enough photons through the scope, you should start to see stars on the camera's view screen. Then you fiddle with your focuser to get the stars to pinpoint as best as you can, an inexpensive bahtinov mask for your scope will help. It helps if your camera's live view supports zoom. I also use APT to control the camera from my laptop, don't know if you have that or not but it will be a tremendous help to you if you do.

Best of luck and Clear Skies!
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#10

Post by chris_g »


Below is the first image I took using the method I described to focus my camera, I was using a 50mm prime F/1.8 lense. I don't have my scope yet but the methodology should be the same. It was one 10 second light with five dark, no bias and no flats. I processed with DSS and Adobe PS. I have no idea what part of the sky I was pointing to at the time as I didn't have a target in mind, just wanted to get the camera working. Hope this helps you to achieve your goals.

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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#11

Post by JayTee »


Hello and welcome to TSS.

Your telescope and camera combination will make capturing images extremely difficult! You would be much better served by putting your camera on a simple tripod, use your standard camera lens (18-55) @ 55mm and shoot 30-second images at ISO 3200. Pointing your camera in the general direction of the Orion nebula will be the easy part. The difficult part will be getting proper focus. The infinity setting is usually not quite right and it takes some adjustment to "nail" the focus. This is done by taking several (if needed) test shots to determine if you really are in focus. Be patient and move the focus ring in the tiniest increments your fingers will allow. Eventually, you'll get it focused, then you can start your imaging run.

This is how the vast majority of us started our AP journey! Please share your results with us. We're here if you need more help.

Cheers,
JT
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#12

Post by Greenman »


Hi Frog welcome on board enjoy TSS.
Cheers,

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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#13

Post by Frog »


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[/quote]
Wow! Thank you for your help sir :)
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#14

Post by SkyHiker »


I wonder if you missed the M42 target, I can't match the stars with other M42 images.

It is a nice star field though, nice colors too. But if it was M42 we should definitely see more nebulosity.

How many subs was this? At what ISO? Did you use raw images? Did you use a 32 bit editor for stretching?
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#15

Post by Frog »


SkyHiker wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:49 pm How many subs was this? At what ISO? Did you use raw images? Did you use a 32 bit editor for stretching?
Just one, 1600 ISO, Standard RAW, 16 bit
I think it was M42 due to when I increased the exposure and played with the levels, I saw a glow coming from the spots. However, I could just as well be miles off 🤔
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#16

Post by SkyHiker »


Frog wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:13 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:49 pm How many subs was this? At what ISO? Did you use raw images? Did you use a 32 bit editor for stretching?
Just one, 1600 ISO, Standard RAW, 16 bit
I think it was M42 due to when I increased the exposure and played with the levels, I saw a glow coming from the spots. However, I could just as well be miles off 🤔
I think you were off. To check, run a plate solver with your image, it will tell you what you were pointing at.

If you use a 16 bit editor you have a good chance of losing most nebulosity. And of course, one sub won't show a lot.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#17

Post by chris_g »


SkyHiker wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:49 pm I wonder if you missed the M42 target, I can't match the stars with other M42 images.

It is a nice star field though, nice colors too. But if it was M42 we should definitely see more nebulosity.

How many subs was this? At what ISO? Did you use raw images? Did you use a 32 bit editor for stretching?
I wasn't pointed at anything in particular when I took it. I don't know my way around the sky yet but I ordered a book called Stars, a New Way to Look at Them by H A Ray to help me with that. I don't know what a plate stacker is but I'm going to look it up.

It was 1 10 second exposure at 800 iso, 5 dark. I stacked using DSS and tweaked a couple of settings using PS to remove some noise and darken the background. I posted it so Frog could see what can be accomplished with just a camera.
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#18

Post by SkyHiker »


chris_g wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:54 am
SkyHiker wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:49 pm I wonder if you missed the M42 target, I can't match the stars with other M42 images.

It is a nice star field though, nice colors too. But if it was M42 we should definitely see more nebulosity.

How many subs was this? At what ISO? Did you use raw images? Did you use a 32 bit editor for stretching?
I wasn't pointed at anything in particular when I took it. I don't know my way around the sky yet but I ordered a book called Stars, a New Way to Look at Them by H A Ray to help me with that. I don't know what a plate stacker is but I'm going to look it up.

It was 1 10 second exposure at 800 iso, 5 dark. I stacked using DSS and tweaked a couple of settings using PS to remove some noise and darken the background. I posted it so Frog could see what can be accomplished with just a camera.
Oops I somehow thought that Frog posted that photo, I was not thinking. Sorry about that.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#19

Post by chris_g »


Wow, plate solver, that's cool! Then it passes that to Stellarium, totally cool! I'm pointed at Aldabaran, thanks SkyHiker!

Frog, this is all free except for the laptop. Clear Skies!

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Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
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pakarinen United States of America
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Re: Issues with viewing through DSLR with telescope

#20

Post by pakarinen »


chris_g wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:54 am I wasn't pointed at anything in particular when I took it. I don't know my way around the sky yet but I ordered a book called Stars, a New Way to Look at Them by H A Ray to help me with that.
You might also want to consider a planisphere - it's a rotatable star map that you can set to different times and dates to see what's visible and in what direction. I use one when I want a quick idea of what's where on a certain date / time and I don't feel like firing up an app on my phone or Web. And no battery or WiFi needed! :wink: I'm at 42N, so this one works for me:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/09613 ... UTF8&psc=1

Also handy for figuring out approx. rise and set times of constellations.
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I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
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AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
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