Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

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stewe
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Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#1

Post by stewe »


Hi there,

I have been using a Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm eyepiece with my C9.25 to provide the largest TFOV. I bought this eyepiece after analysing a lot of (way too many) reviews. I concluded that it was supposed to be a good performer in slow scopes. However, visual performance is a rather subjective term, plus I have limited experience with long-FL large-AFOV eyepieces. My SCT is f/10, operating effectively at f/11 due to my Crayford focuser and the 2" star diagonal at its back, thus I had high expectations of this eyepiece. What I liked particularly in its specs in comparison with other, similar eyepieces was its light weight (<400g), meaning no balancing issues with my SCT.

My first impression with the Baader back then was that although the AFOV is indeed large (72 deg), it is pretty much just to provide an illusion of a wide-field, since the outer ~25-30% of the FOV showed significant astigmatism, rendering this area virtually useless. Having said that, it is a good eyepiece and had a lot of use since I bought it, but its outer aberrations have always irritated me a bit. A few weeks ago, my Baader fogged up in the inside, which was also very annoying (eventually managed to dry it out). So putting my hands on a better long-FL eyepiece has been on the agenda.

I have been particularly tempted to acquire an Argon-purged Explore Scientific (ES) 68 40mm eyepiece. It has fantastic reviews but I found the price tag a bit too high for my taste (around 300-350 EUR). A few days ago, I saw an offer on Amazon for 178 EUR (around the same I spent on the Baader), and I pulled the trigger. After my purchase, the price tag on the next one almost doubled instantly :-P

The ES eyepiece arrived today. First impression: it is a Lenszilla, and I will probably have balancing issues, so I will need a small counterweight. It was very nicely packaged. The eyepiece housing is beautifully machined, it has a high-quality feel to it, and the eye lens is HUGE, it is like looking through a window. The rim is quite well-defined, although I have seen sharper ones, and there is a slight greenish hue along it when turned towards bright white objects. I hope it is normal, the Baader had a yellowish hue at its rim. In the inner 2" tube, there are some tiny discontinuities in the cover of the matte black paint, they possibly could have done a better job there. Again, I have high expectations with its on-sky performance.

It looks like I will have clear skies tomorrow, so I will make a comparison test of the two eyepieces in the C9.25 and post my impressions here.
stewe
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Re: Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#2

Post by stewe »


Hello,

Following up on my earlier post, I would like to share with you my experiences with the above comparison, this time with on-sky performance. The comparison of the two eyepieces turned out to be more interesting than anticipated, as it was also a test of my own eye's performance.

Last weekend the persistent clouds over Germany cleared up for a few hours over my town, so I could bring my scope under the sky. I compared the Baader Aspheric 36mm and the ES 68 40mm eyepieces' performance on some large open clusters, including M45 (barely fitting into my FOV), which contains some rather bright stars.

Below is the summary of my impressions of the two eyepieces.

- The ES68 is much better corrected than the Baader, in accordance to what I anticipated. While the Baader has significant astigmatism in the outer ~20-30% in my f/11 system, and stars become concentric arches in the outer 4-5 degrees, the ES68 has virtually no astigmatism as far as I could tell (more on that later). The commercial blurb "pinpoint stars to the edge of the field" that is used to praise both eyepieces really stands true for the ES68.

- The ES68 has some significant field distortion (pincushion) which, according to my rather subjective impression, _might_ somewhat exceed that of the Baader. However, this should be expected for a wide AFOV, and it does not really bother me.

- Interestingly, I found that the Baader offers a more comfortable viewing to me. I observe without my glasses, and the Baader's eyecup is made in such a way that when my head touches it, then my eye is at the perfect distance from the lens (i.e., at the optimal eye relief of 19mm). In contrast, the ES68 has an eye relief of 31mm, way more than the length of its eyecup. As a consequence, I had a few blackouts at first, and for me, having good views really takes some getting used to with the ES68. But I will get used to it. At the same time, the ES68 is way better to be used with glasses.

- The colours in the ES68 appeared to be warmer than in the Baader, but again, this is subjective, and I did not yet have the chance to observe the Moon or the planets.

- As mentioned before, the ES68 is ~2.5 times heavier than the Baader, and the former is waterproof, while the latter appeared to quite susceptible to internal fogging.

Now here comes the unexpected part. When I was looking at M45 with the ES68, I immediately noticed some significant distortions off-axis of the brighter stars, which were not apparent in the Baader. Then I noticed that the distortions changed as I moved my head, i.e., my eye's optical axis with respect to the eyepiece. This means that the error is in "my system", i.e., what I saw was my own eye's astigmatism. The exit pupil produced by the Baader is ~3.3mm, while the ES68 produced one of ~3.7mm. Not much difference, but this small increment brought out the optical imperfections in my own eye. Now I am glad that I have the SCT and not some fast light bucket Dob, because with 4-5mm exit pupils at wide fields I would be displeased with the view. Fortunately, the distortions were small or negligible in all other clusters I looked at, so everything is not lost. Nevertheless, while astigmatism has not been affecting my eyesight in everyday life, maybe it is time to get a prescription for astigmatism-correcting glasses.

My not-so-surprising verdict is that the ES68 is a much better eyepiece than the Baader if the significant extra weight is tolerable, one's eyes can tolerate large exit pupils, and one can pay the extra cost. Is it worth twice as much as the Baader? Possibly, depending on one's taste. Having said that, the Baader is just a fine eyepiece for its price. Since TMB Paragons are not really available anymore these days, the Baader can be a good compromise for some.

Right now I will stay with the ES68 and try to find a new owner for the Baader.

Any comments are welcome.
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Bigzmey United States of America
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Re: Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#3

Post by Bigzmey »


I would take that Baader of your hands, except I already have a set. :D

Baader Aspherics 36mm and 31mm have been my favorite 2" EPs for years. I don't see any astigmatism in them. I see some field curvature in fast refractors, but it comes mostly from scope. I would take them over ES68 any time.

I have just acquired TV Panoptic 27mm. Let's see if it will change my opinion on Baader. :)

This post is not intended to contradict your observations, but more to illustrate that EP selection is highly individual, and when evaluating EPs one need to take into account whole optical train including obesrver's eye.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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Re: Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#4

Post by notFritzArgelander »


Interesting. I used to own the Baader Aspherics and didn't see any astigmatism in f10 scopes. Likely individual differences. There were astigmatism issues with them at f5 though, for sure. Since I wanted ~70 degree AFOV but no astigmatism I sold the Baaders in favor of Panoptics.

Interesting and thanks for the report. It's always good to be reminded how our individual differences can shape results. It's easier to satisfy ones own needs but planning for outreach is tougher.
Scopes: Refs: Orion ST80, SV 80EDA f7, TS 102ED f11 Newts: AWB 130mm, f5, Z12 f5; Cats: VMC110L, Intes MK66,VMC200L f9.75 EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker IV, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5
stewe
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Re: Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#5

Post by stewe »


Thanks to both of you for the feedback. The difference in our experiences are likely due to differences between the individual units, i.e., poor QC.
I mean, the seagull paradise in the outer part of mine was pretty obvious, there was nothing subjective about it.
I'm glad that you had more luck with your units.
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Bigzmey United States of America
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Re: Baader Hyperion Aspheric 36mm vs ES 68 40mm

#6

Post by Bigzmey »


stewe wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:44 pm Thanks to both of you for the feedback. The difference in our experiences are likely due to differences between the individual units, i.e., poor QC.
I mean, the seagull paradise in the outer part of mine was pretty obvious, there was nothing subjective about it.
I'm glad that you had more luck with your units.
So true, it could be just bad QC, or EP damaged during the shipment.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102ED; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD, 8" SCT, 150ST, Onyx 80ED; iOptron: Hankmeister 6" Mak; SW: 7" Mak; Meade: 80ST.
Mounts: SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; iOptron: AZMP; ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: APM: 100-90 APO; Canon: IS 15x50; Orion: Binoviewer, LG II 15x70, WV 10x50, Nikon: AE 16x50, 10x50, 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs & XFs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic & Plossls; ES: 68, 62; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric; AltairAstro: 2" prism.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S, 6-color set; Astronomik: UHC.

Observing: DSOs: 3106 (Completed: Messier, Herschel 1, 2, 3. In progress: H2,500: 2180, S110: 77). Doubles: 2382, Comets: 34, Asteroids: 255
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