Telescope Pilot Wings

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Telescope Pilot Wings

#1

Post by seer » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pm

I mentioned telescope pilot wings in one of my other posts. The more I think about them the better they seem. If an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#2

Post by Gordon » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:39 pm

Moved to a more appropriate area.

We can always create 'flairs' (little icons) if folks want to create the topics.
Gordon
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED80CF, Skywatcher 254N, Orion ST80, Orion Atlas EQ-g mount, Orion SSAG guider. Baader MPCC MkIII coma corrector, Vixen 70mm refractor. Lunt LS35THa solar scope. Skywatcher EQ5pro mount. Imagers: ZWO ASI1600 MM Cool, ZWO ASI174mm-C (for use with my Quark chromosphere), ZWO ASI120MC Filters: LRGB, Ha 7nm, O-III 7nm, S-II 7nm Eyepieces: a few, Primary software: Cartes du Ciel, EQMOD, SGP, Nebulosity, Photoshop, StarTools V1.4
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#3

Post by JayTee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:45 pm

I'm working on an article right now, (spoiler alert) it involves golf clubs.

Cheers,
JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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#4

Post by hal2000 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm

I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's

If anyone would like an article about a bank holiday weekend just past with three days of perfect weather, yet three nights of clouds, I'm your man
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#5

Post by JayTee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:29 pm

hal2000 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm
I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's
Hi,
The vast array of both different size and type optics AND your viewing location make a contest between visual astronomers virtually impossible.

What we do offer are self-directed accomplishment badges, for example, the Messier award badges. We have in the works other badges, possibly Herschel and or Caldwell badges.

Cheers,
JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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#6

Post by Bigzmey » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:44 pm

JayTee wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:29 pm
hal2000 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:10 pm
I always think it is bit unfortunate that most forums have monthly or whatever imaging competitions, but nothing for non-APer's
Hi,
The vast array of both different size and type optics AND your viewing location make a contest between visual astronomers virtually impossible.

What we do offer are self-directed accomplishment badges, for example, the Messier award badges. We have in the works other badges, possibly Herschel and or Caldwell badges.

Cheers,
JT
Having observing challenges is a brilliant idea! It set apart AF from other forums and we should develop it further here on TSS. How about Southern Sky Challenge? Herschels and Caldwell sounds good to.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic, Plossls & barlows; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Meade: UWAs & Plossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1165, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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#7

Post by JayTee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:41 pm

The Southern Sky Challenge is just about finished. Look for it soon.

JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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I never met a scope I didn't want to keep. "My God, it's full of stars."
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#8

Post by seer » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:49 pm

What I have in mind has to do with mastering the equipment. There are a few people here that actually make jewelry. They may know or be able to design them and how to get them made. Having them as an icon would work also.
How do we let the telescope makers know that design updates are long overdue for the less expensive telescope mounts like the ones that I have to use? They are so archaic that they actually have dunsels on them.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#9

Post by JayTee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm

seer wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pm
If an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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I never met a scope I didn't want to keep. "My God, it's full of stars."
Searching the skies since 1966!
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#10

Post by seer » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am

JayTee wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm
seer wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pm
If an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#11

Post by Bigzmey » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:35 am

seer wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am
JayTee wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm
seer wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:27 pm
If an essay would be required in order to get them on say the workings and use of a manual EQ mount we could mine them for good proper instructions for everyone. Ya know even AZ mount instructions suck. There would be other things to like putting together star hops. Maybe there could be different rankings and or classifications.
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
GEM (German equatorial mount) is just another name for EQ you are referring to.
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic, Plossls & barlows; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Meade: UWAs & Plossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1165, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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#12

Post by seer » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Sorry, I did a quick search and just glanced at the photos that popped up and they were go-to mounts.
I am just throwing some ideas out there.
I still think that telescope pilot wings are a good idea.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#13

Post by Voyageur » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:05 pm

Bigzmey wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:35 am
seer wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am
JayTee wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:32 pm
For some reason our gear, our instruments, our equipment really suffers from poor technical writing. Chalk it up to whatever excuse the manufacturer is willing to provide.

BUT, technical writing on the scale that you are suggesting is extremely difficult. Here's why, take the CGEM, for example, the overall mechanical function between manufacturers is nearly identical, but the operation of that particular manufacturer's equipment is very specific as to the procedures and features that it contains. These procedures and features not only differ from manufacturer to manufacturer but also between different models from the same manufacturer. So making an "overall" manual for a CGEM is a huge undertaking. This the reason why we typically see just a generic version of how to "basically" set up the equipment. Some even give you the "why" you are doing what you are doing, but even that sometimes leaves a lot to be desired.

Your goal is admirable but we are stuck in a consumer universe that makes technical writing a very real challenge.

Cheers,
JT
You underestimate how poor I am. I don't know mounts like the CGEM. The mounts that I am becoming familiar with I believe are called the EQ1 and EQ2 and some AZ counterparts. The CGEM is a go-to mount.
GEM (German equatorial mount) is just another name for EQ you are referring to.
It's a difference of degree (quality, price, features) rather than of kind. The mechanical principles are the same for all German equatorial mounts, goto or manual.

I have a Vixen Sphinx, an older model, and found the manual to be quite well done, with photos, diagrams and text. I had no trouble understanding it, even thought it was my first GEM/EQ mount.

Understanding the basic motions of the mount is critical to using the mount; I don't always use goto, but often manually locate objects for fun or even efficiency's sake. I can move it manually faster than its motors do!

There is certainly room for good materials on the basic operation of any EQ mount, irrespective of make, model, and features.
Scopes: Vixen VMC200L, D=200mm, F=1950, f/9.75; Televue 2" Everbright diagonal. Coronado PST; AstroTech EDT 80mm, F=480, f/6.
Mounts: Vixen SXW/Starbook (original); Stellarvue M2C alt-az.
Eyepieces: Televue: 55mm Plossl, 22mm Panoptic, 17.3mm Delos, 13mm Nagler, c. 1980, 11mm Plossl, 7mm Nagler, 5mm Radian; Meade 15mm Super Plossl; VERNONSCOPE 2.4X BARLOW
Binoculars: Leica 8x32 Trinovids, circa 1997; Orion Megaview 20x80, Orion Paragon Plus mount.
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#14

Post by seer » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:17 am

You don't drive a telescope you pilot it. Just sayin.
It would be a symbol to help confirm ones ability to use equipment properly and effectively (get to where you want to go).
Getting a good issuing authority behind it would be great.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#15

Post by Lady Fraktor » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:54 am

Drive, pilot, steer, it all means the same in the end.
I refer to it as steering the telescope and I have a habit of doing it by holding the diagonal. A good strong focuser can take the abuse but a poorly made one will suffer from it.
If you master using a EQ-1 then there is really no difference using a EQ-5 other than the size and that you have better operational accessories to put on it.
Peirs, polar-scopes, single or dual motors, different saddle plates or even goto functions can be added to the mount.
🇸🇰
Proper Telescopes: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNGDX 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen ED115s f/7.7
Mounts: Celestron AS-GT, Celestron CG-5 w/ Argo Navis & tracking motor, SLT w/ pier & tripod mods, Manfrotto 028b w/ SV M2C, Mantrotto 055Pro w/ 128RC, TAL MT1C, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 & half pier
Diagonal: 2" A-P Maxbright, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (P), 2" Zeiss/ Baader Amici Prism (DX2), 2" Orion Amici Prism, 2" Stellarvue DX, 2" TeleVue EverBrite
Eyepieces: Antares to Zeiss
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#16

Post by JayTee » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:25 am

Not to harsh your buzz, and as I said before your overall idea is admirable, but as a retired military and commercial pilot you categorically do not pilot a telescope, you operate it. And as Gabrielle pointed out above, once you understand the basic theory and function of your mount you can apply that knowledge across the board. All you have left to do at that point is just understand the features and procedures for that particular mount.

I think what you are really getting at is designating somebody a subject matter expert also known as a SME. The question is who decides when somebody is a SME or not?

Food for thought,
JT
Main: C-stron CPC1100 #2 Scope: 8" f/7.5 Dob mounted Newt AP Scopes: TPO 6" f/9 RC, ES 80mm f/6 APO G&G Scope: Meade 102mm f/7.8, Bresser 102mm f/4.5 Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs Mounts: C-stron AVX CGEM & GT Alt-Az, Meade DS2000 Cameras: Canon T3i (x2), ASI120MC Binos: 10X50,10.5X70,15X70 (x2), 25X100 EPs: ES: 21 100°, 30 82° X-Cels: 9, 12, 18, 25 Clubs: RCA & HAS
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My Wx https://dashboard.ambientweather.net/de ... 837a4f803c
I never met a scope I didn't want to keep. "My God, it's full of stars."
Searching the skies since 1966!
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#17

Post by seer » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:26 pm

JayTee wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:25 am
Not to harsh your buzz, and as I said before your overall idea is admirable, but as a retired military and commercial pilot you categorically do not pilot a telescope, you operate it. And as Gabrielle pointed out above, once you understand the basic theory and function of your mount you can apply that knowledge across the board. All you have left to do at that point is just understand the features and procedures for that particular mount.

I think what you are really getting at is designating somebody a subject matter expert also known as a SME. The question is who decides when somebody is a SME or not?

Food for thought,
JT
I disagree with you as far as piloting a telescope goes. It's akin to navigating.
I have already said about getting a good issuing authority behind it. That would make it even better.
Donald
Tasco BRK Essentials Model: 169735 7x35, Celestron Cometron 7x50, Bushnell 10x50 Legacy WP, Oberwerk 15x70 LW, Meade Infinity 60mm AZ Refractor, Bushnell Deep Space 3 inch Reflector, Meade Polaris 80mm EQ Refractor, Meade Polaris 114mm Reflector.
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#18

Post by Bigzmey » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:21 pm

I guess if we talk about manual mount there are two aspects of scope operation. One is to learn all bolts and whistles of the scope and mount to drive it and then learn your way around the sky to manually navigate to your target. Combining the two would be akin to piloting a ship or a plane or a car. We don't travel on earth but we do travel across the sky when we observe.

I agree that judging someone ability to master the scope over internet would be difficult, but we could have a star hopping challenge of some sort which would show your ability to drive, operate, navigate, pilot your manual scope. :D
Scopes: Stellarvue: SV102 ED F7; Celestron: 9.25" EdgeHD F10, 8" SCT F10, 6" SCT F10, Omni XLT 150R Achro F5, Onyx 80ED F6.3; Meade: 80ST Achro F5.
Mounts: ES: Twilight I; Bresser: EXOS2; SW: SkyTee2, AzGTi; UA: MicroStar.
Binos: Orion: Little Giant II 15x70, WorldView 10x50, Nikon: Action EX 8x40.
EPs: Pentax: XWs; TeleVue: Delites, Panoptic, Plossls & barlows; ES: 68s; Vixen: SLVs; Baader: BCOs, Aspherics, Mark IV; Meade: UWAs & Plossls.
Diagonals: Baader: BBHS silver mirror, Zeiss Spec T2 prism, Clicklock dielectric; TeleVue: Evebrite dielectric.
Filters: Lumicon: DeepSky, UHC, OIII, H-beta; Baader: Moon & SkyGlow, Contrast Booster, UHC-S; Astronomik: UHC, Orion: UltraBlock, SkyGlow.
Observing: DSOs: 1694 (Completed: M110, H1, H2. In progress: H3: 195, H2,500: 1272, S110: 77). Doubles: 1165, Comets: 14, Asteroids: 73
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