Too many satellites

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Kanadalainen
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Too many satellites

#1

Post by Kanadalainen »

https://phys.org/news/2020-02-astronome ... tions.html

The latest in this story.

One thing caught my attention: "Back in May 2019, Elon Musk tried to dismiss any astronomical concerns about Starlink. Among his brusque dismissals of criticisms was his statement that "We need to move telescopes to orbit anyway. Atmospheric attenuation is terrible.""
Ian

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AbbN
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#2

Post by AbbN »

Yup, way too many satellites but this is the world we now live in because we want all the technological wonders we can get..... :(

Abb
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UlteriorModem
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#3

Post by UlteriorModem »

Kanadalainen wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:19 pm
"We need to move telescopes to orbit anyway. Atmospheric attenuation is terrible.""
I agree it has been horrible. But his solution to to much space junk is to add to the problem?
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helicon
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#4

Post by helicon »

This continues to be a problem (satellites) and will only get worse. I sincerely hope that something is done to stop Starlink and others who are polluting near-earth orbit with all this junk.
-Michael
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#5

Post by Ruud »

It's time for a large observatory on the far side of the Moon.
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#6

Post by Makuser »

Hi Ian and all. As if the bad light pollution isn't enough, now we have Starlink and OneWeb filling our skies with space junk. Not happy. :cry:
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#7

Post by metastable »

I think musk's argument is starlink will help him fund making bigger rockets... those bigger rockets will enable bigger space-based telescopes... qualitatively better observation ensues.
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UlteriorModem
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#8

Post by UlteriorModem »

I think musk's argument is starlink will help him fund making bigger rockets... those bigger rockets will enable bigger space-based telescopes... qualitatively better observation ensues.
Not that Musk is self centered or anything...


One of the problems is there is a limit as to how much 'junk' one can launch a rocket through. At some point we may become ''earth bound" trapped by a cap of orbiting objects.
Last edited by UlteriorModem on Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#9

Post by metastable »

ps airplanes are in the sky and emit light...
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UlteriorModem
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#10

Post by UlteriorModem »

Those are 'trails' not individual aircraft. It is also a time lapse image not a snapshot. Furthermore there is vertical separation not apparent in the image.
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#11

Post by UlteriorModem »

Tom

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metastable
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#12

Post by metastable »

World Airline Traffic (24-Hour Time Lapse)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx7_yzypm5w
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#13

Post by notFritzArgelander »

metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
I think musk's argument is starlink will help him fund making bigger rockets... those bigger rockets will enable bigger space-based telescopes... qualitatively better observation ensues.
It is not true that space based telescopes are qualitatively better. There is enormous increase in cost for the same aperture and instrumentation is much more difficult to upgrade. Dismissing ground based astronomy as Musk has done is cavalier and... well.... stupid.

https://research.arizona.edu/stories/sp ... telescopes
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metastable
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#14

Post by metastable »

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm
There is enormous increase in cost for the same aperture and instrumentation is much more difficult to upgrade. Dismissing ground based astronomy as Musk has done is cavalier and... well.... stupid.
musk thinks the cost per flight of 100 ton payload to orbit will drop to $2 million with his reusable starships... the development of which is expected to be partially recouped via selling broadband internet bandwidth from starlink satellites...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech ... r-mission/
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#15

Post by notFritzArgelander »

metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:53 pm
notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm
There is enormous increase in cost for the same aperture and instrumentation is much more difficult to upgrade. Dismissing ground based astronomy as Musk has done is cavalier and... well.... stupid.
musk thinks the cost per flight of 100 ton payload to orbit will drop to $2 million with his reusable starships... the development of which is expected to be partially recouped via selling broadband internet bandwidth from starlink satellites...
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech ... r-mission/
Musk does not think, obviously, that's the point. There is no way to launch telescopes in the 10-30 meter class at any price. Meanwhile investments in such instruments stand to be ruined by his reckless "enterprise".
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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#16

Post by metastable »

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:01 pm
There is no way to launch telescopes in the 10-30 meter class at any price.
the starship is 10 meters in diameter
Last edited by metastable on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#17

Post by notFritzArgelander »

UlteriorModem wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:30 pm
I think musk's argument is starlink will help him fund making bigger rockets... those bigger rockets will enable bigger space-based telescopes... qualitatively better observation ensues.
Not that Musk is self centered or anything...


One of the problems is there is a limit as to how much 'junk' one can launch a rocket through. At some point we may become ''earth bound" trapped by a cap of orbiting objects.
Musk is a classic case of a charismatic ego run amuck. He has quite a following of Musketeers though. It's an interesting caution against the dangers of hero worship and fandom.
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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#18

Post by notFritzArgelander »

metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 pm
the starship is 10 meters in diameter
Yes, not big enough!
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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#19

Post by metastable »

notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:01 pm
There is no way to launch telescopes in the 10-30 meter class at any price.
metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 pm
the starship is 10 meters in diameter
notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:06 pm
Yes, not big enough!
doesn't the james webb telescope fold down to about 1/3rd its unfolded size? so if the fairing diameter is slightly bigger than 10m, wouldn't that allow for a 30m class telescope (unfolded)?

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notFritzArgelander
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#20

Post by notFritzArgelander »

metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:09 pm
notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:01 pm
There is no way to launch telescopes in the 10-30 meter class at any price.
metastable wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:05 pm
the starship is 10 meters in diameter
notFritzArgelander wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:06 pm
Yes, not big enough!
doesn't the james webb telescope fold down to about 1/3rd its unfolded size? so if the fairing diameter is slightly bigger than 10m, wouldn't that allow for a 30m class telescope (unfolded)?
The JWST design hasn't succeeded yet. There are no designs for space telescopes in the 10-30 meter range. So your speculation is premature and baseless.

We are expected to trash the GMT because of Musk's whims? :lol:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_M ... _Telescope
Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80, SV ED80 A f7; Newtonians: Z12 f5; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, Plossl 32-8mm. Mixed brand Masuyama/Astroplans Binoculars: Nikon Aculon 10x50, Celestron 15x70, Baader Maxbright. Mounts: Star Seeker III, Vixen Porta II, Celestron CG5, Orion Sirius EQG
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