Getting ready for first cooled CMOS sensor

[STEVE333]

At 78 I don't like learning how to use new hardware/software (not that I ever did). Since I started in AP a little over 6 years ago in late 2013 I have been using a used Canon T3 ($250 from ebay). I quickly realized I needed something to control the camera, and, BYEOS (BackyardEOS) was the answer. I've been using BYEOS since 2014 and it has handled all my needs. With BYEOS I have always used a laptop setup next to the mount. When I started guiding a few years later it was a pleasure to find that BYEOS and PHD "talk" to each other. Coordinating BYEOS and PHD was easy, and, controlling the dithering was also easy to do. It has been "comfortable" using BYEOS and PHD and the laptop.

However, I'm now going to purchase a cooled camera and have to start getting ready for what new things might be needed.

A few weeks ago I was setting up to take some pictures with my DSLR, and, while I was in the house someone stole my laptop from my driveway (next to the house). After recovering from the shock I decided to use active USB cables to connect the DSLR and guide camera to the laptop inside the house (cables through a slightly open window with a strip of cardboard to keep the cold air out). Those cables worked fine and I thought my "remote setup" was solved. However, John at HIGH POINT pointed out that in his experience that type of USB connection for the cooled camera oftentimes has problems. He recommended using a device from WEme (link below) that has a powered 4-port USB hub at one end (at the telescope/mount in my case), and, a "receiver" at the other end that plugs into the USB port of the second computer (inside my house). The Hub and Receiver are connected together with RJ45 LAN cable (purchased separately) that can be up to 196 feet long. The combination acts like a "USB extension cord". My run of 40 feet is easily handled. Last night I tested this new "extension cord" and it worked flawlessly. One step towards getting ready for the new coolded ZWO ASI1600GT.

https://www.amazon.com/WEme-Extender-Co ... B01MRL2SK1

The next step was to find a software program that will control the ZWO ASI1600GT cooled mono camera (built-in filter wheel). Sadly, BYEOS won't do the job. DARN!! John at HIGH POINT suggested trying APT which is a free software. I downloaded it along with its manual, and, headed to YouTube for help. There are several tutorials, but, generally each one discusses a specific or at least limited range of topics. Others are recorded at night and I couldn't see the APT screen. There may be one that is designed for a beginner like me, but, so far I haven't found it.

So, last night, using what little I had learned from the YouTube tutorials, it was time to try controlling my DSLR and PHD2 with APT and actually take some AP images!! It wasn't as bad as I had anticipated. There were a few problems along the way, but, in the end (after about 2 hours of problem solving) I got it working!!! I was able to control the DSLR (Exposure Time, ISO, # of Exposures), take individual shorter images for focussing with a Bahtinov Mask, and, got APT to connect to and control Dithering with PHD2. I actually ended up collecting 15 x 540 sec Lights and all were usable!!!

One other new technology (for me) was getting Chrome Remote Desktop working between the two laptops. With the outside laptop I was able to see the screen of the inside laptop and remotely take pictures (using APT) to perform focussing with a Bahtinov Mask. I also used the Remote Desktop feature to finish alignment with a 1-star alignment (Live View in APT displayed on screen of inside laptop, but, viewed on outside laptop).

All in all it was a very successful evening. I feel much more comfortable about getting and using the cooled camera with filter wheel now that this "groundwork" has been successfully completed.

More to come as new hardware is purchased and received.

Steve

[Baskevo]

This is awesome Steve! I am glad you are able to get it all working

There are functions in APT that only work with a CMOS/CCD camera that makes the fact that you have to learn so many new things ABSOLUTELY worth it. For example, the Bahtinov aid to help with focusing and the CCD Flats aid tool, which help a ton. APT is pretty simple, especially if you leave the 'tool tips' on.

It sounds like you got most of the hard stuff worked out! All you have to do now is set up the camera + drivers, read up on Gain/offset, and you are pretty much good to go Once you plug in the CMOS, APT has default settings that work out pretty well, such as the cooling aid function.

Good luck, Steve! I think you are going to love it!

[STEVE333]

Hi James - I'm pretty excited. No more Darks Library and spending a day or two taking Darks with the DSLR in an insulated "lunch bag" with ice.

I guess the Gain/Offset information will be in the manual? I have no idea how to set those. However, like everything else, hopefully it will become clearer once I actually get started.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Steve

[XCalRocketMan]

I have used the USB-LAN method for about 3 years and it has worked very well. You should be good to go with that setup.
I was using the StarTech version. However, I finally decided to mount a NUC right on the mount pier. All my peripherals are directly attached to one of it's 3 USB-3 ports. A single LAN cable runs into my house. I remote login to the NUC. All my astro software is on the NUC. Great solution.

[STEVE333]

I have used the USB-LAN method for about 3 years and it has worked very well. You should be good to go with that setup.
I was using the StarTech version. However, I finally decided to mount a NUC right on the mount pier. All my peripherals are directly attached to one of it's 3 USB-3 ports. A single LAN cable runs into my house. I remote login to the NUC. All my astro software is on the NUC. Great solution.

I had to look up what a "NUC" is. The pictures I saw look like it is a solid piece of equipment. Looks like it has a processor inside too.

My WEme is much smaller, no processor, but, hopefully just as robust. I plan on covering the powered hub portion, which will be outside, with a towel to prevent any moisture problems. I may even get a "Tupperware" type plastic box and cut little slits on opposite sides to allow the cables to go in/out and then put the cover back on. That should protect it. All my software is on my laptop in the house.

Glad yours is working well. Hopefully mine will continue to work well.

Cheers,
Steve

[XCalRocketMan]

Sorry. I need to make sure I define my acronyms . Essentially a NUC is a fanless PC. Mine is about 4" square and is a fully functioning Windows 10 Pro PC. I added a 256GB SSD for storing the images as they are captured. This NUC runs my complete telescope setup.

[sdbodin]

No more Darks Library and spending a day or two taking Darks with the DSLR in an insulated "lunch bag" with ice.

I guess the Gain/Offset information will be in the manual? I have no idea how to set those. However, like everything else, hopefully it will become clearer once I actually get started.

The gain and offsets are not in the manual, if I remember correctly. But, I just run my 1600MC, the OSC version, at 200 gain 50 offset for everything. I found that 5 min exposures at f6 are fine for narrow band filters and 2 min for normal OSC exposures. This keeps clipping to a minimum. BTW, I run the cooler at -20C and it needs 2 amps in the summer, almost nothing in the winter.

You still need a dark library, lots of amp glow on the edges, but my 'library' is more than a year old and still works well, no need to take them nightly.

Good luck,
Steve

[Juno16]

How exciting Steve!

You are an excellent astrophotographer with the Canon and now moving up to a dedicated ap camera. I definitely hear what you are saying about the darks!

I hope that you will like Astrophotography Tool. I use it with my Nikon and really enjoy its features. Great support too.

Looking forward to reading about your new experiences. Going to miss your work in the dslr arena though!

[STEVE333]

The gain and offsets are not in the manual, if I remember correctly. But, I just run my 1600MC, the OSC version, at 200 gain 50 offset for everything. I found that 5 min exposures at f6 are fine for narrow band filters and 2 min for normal OSC exposures. This keeps clipping to a minimum. BTW, I run the cooler at -20C and it needs 2 amps in the summer, almost nothing in the winter.

You still need a dark library, lots of amp glow on the edges, but my 'library' is more than a year old and still works well, no need to take them nightly.

Good luck,
Steve

Thanks a bunch for the info Steve. That gives me some good starting points.

Looks like the Darks Library may be just one Temperature (-20C?) but different exposure times. Not too bad.

Sorry. I need to make sure I define my acronyms . Essentially a NUC is a fanless PC. Mine is about 4" square and is a fully functioning Windows 10 Pro PC. I added a 256GB SSD for storing the images as they are captured. This NUC runs my complete telescope setup.

Pretty cool!

How exciting Steve!

You are an excellent astrophotographer with the Canon and now moving up to a dedicated ap camera. I definitely hear what you are saying about the darks!

I hope that you will like Astrophotography Tool. I use it with my Nikon and really enjoy its features. Great support too.

Looking forward to reading about your new experiences. Going to miss your work in the dslr arena though!

Thanks Jim, you are very kind.
So far APT doesn't look too complicated to use. I'll know more when the ZWO camera gets hooked up and running!

Thanks all.
Steve

[Baskevo]

Gain/Offset are similar to setting the ISO on your canon, except you do it on the computer I don't totally understand it yet, but I just shoot everything at "unity gain," which is different for each camera I believe... I am sure it won't take you long to figure out the best settings for you Other than that, though, you will pretty much be good to go!

Did you decide on a OSC or mono?

[STEVE333]

Gain/Offset are similar to setting the ISO on your canon, except you do it on the computer I don't totally understand it yet, but I just shoot everything at "unity gain," which is different for each camera I believe... I am sure it won't take you long to figure out the best settings for you Other than that, though, you will pretty much be good to go!

Did you decide on a OSC or mono?

Hi James - Unity Gain sounds like a good idea. On this camera that is about 139 which is a bit lower than what sdbodin uses at 200. I'll have to figure out how to determine Offset too.

I'm going for the mono version. The ASI1600GT is a mono camera with a built-in 5-position filter wheel which sounds pretty nice to me. The capture and processing of the data will be a new experience for sure.

Cheers,
Steve

[Baskevo]

Gain/Offset are similar to setting the ISO on your canon, except you do it on the computer I don't totally understand it yet, but I just shoot everything at "unity gain," which is different for each camera I believe... I am sure it won't take you long to figure out the best settings for you Other than that, though, you will pretty much be good to go!

Did you decide on a OSC or mono?

Hi James - Unity Gain sounds like a good idea. On this camera that is about 139 which is a bit lower than what sdbodin uses at 200. I'll have to figure out how to determine Offset too.

I'm going for the mono version. The ASI1600GT is a mono camera with a built-in 5-position filter wheel which sounds pretty nice to me. The capture and processing of the data will be a new experience for sure.

Cheers,
Steve

Awesome! I have the 1600mm Pro I think you are going to love it! You can probably do this in BYEOS as well, but it is very easy to craft sessions with filter changes. Even the CCD flats aid will run through all 7 filters for you to find the right exposure time to reach your desired mean ADU value for each filter You can also clone the plans created by the CCD Flats Aid to make a Dark Flats plan, and easily organize all of your files.

I sort all of my files into folders named after the date, then another folder named after the object name, then my file names have the filter used, temperature, date/time, exposure length, and temperature. You can customize file and folder names to your liking I put all of my lights in the same folder, then I change the object name to something like "Narrowband flats" or "RGB Dark Flats" so APT puts my flats and dark flats into separate folders.

I was surprised when I first set up my camera by how seamlessly it all seemed to work, minus the few settings I had to learn, but those were added benefits for my convenience and were not needed to begin shooting. Once I was all setup, I was imaging the first night!

[STEVE333]

Awesome! I have the 1600mm Pro I think you are going to love it! You can probably do this in BYEOS as well, but it is very easy to craft sessions with filter changes. Even the CCD flats aid will run through all 7 filters for you to find the right exposure time to reach your desired mean ADU value for each filter You can also clone the plans created by the CCD Flats Aid to make a Dark Flats plan, and easily organize all of your files.

I sort all of my files into folders named after the date, then another folder named after the object name, then my file names have the filter used, temperature, date/time, exposure length, and temperature. You can customize file and folder names to your liking I put all of my lights in the same folder, then I change the object name to something like "Narrowband flats" or "RGB Dark Flats" so APT puts my flats and dark flats into separate folders.

I was surprised when I first set up my camera by how seamlessly it all seemed to work, minus the few settings I had to learn, but those were added benefits for my convenience and were not needed to begin shooting. Once I was all setup, I was imaging the first night!

I'll have to look through your response a few times to "digest" your folders approach, but, I like the sound of it already.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Cheers,
Steve

[Baskevo]

Awesome! I have the 1600mm Pro I think you are going to love it! You can probably do this in BYEOS as well, but it is very easy to craft sessions with filter changes. Even the CCD flats aid will run through all 7 filters for you to find the right exposure time to reach your desired mean ADU value for each filter You can also clone the plans created by the CCD Flats Aid to make a Dark Flats plan, and easily organize all of your files.

I sort all of my files into folders named after the date, then another folder named after the object name, then my file names have the filter used, temperature, date/time, exposure length, and temperature. You can customize file and folder names to your liking I put all of my lights in the same folder, then I change the object name to something like "Narrowband flats" or "RGB Dark Flats" so APT puts my flats and dark flats into separate folders.

I was surprised when I first set up my camera by how seamlessly it all seemed to work, minus the few settings I had to learn, but those were added benefits for my convenience and were not needed to begin shooting. Once I was all setup, I was imaging the first night!

I'll have to look through your response a few times to "digest" your folders approach, but, I like the sound of it already.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Cheers,
Steve

It looks more complicated than it is, lol just when you have some free time while in APT, under the tools tab, click on APT settings, and you can play around in there with the folder/file settings The defaults work great, but my point was you can customize it to your liking

[yobbo89]

Nice camera, good price in comparison to other all in one camera/filter wheels. It has its pros and cons, any idea on the back focus for it? , it seems pretty compact and enough room for an oag and corrector.

Shouldn't be hard to just make an extra front part housing for it with an inbuilt oag or possibly a 7 filter version.

[Mac]

We are both on the same track Steve. I am ready to order a ASI533 OSC and use the ethernet extender to control from inside. I am curious how your extender will work with the new camera as it is USB2. I was looking at all of the options on amazon last night. While I am currently using the Stellarmate, I now have a Windows computer of my own for the very first time, so it is now loaded with APT and PHD2 ready for first light.

Now all I need are some clear skies as we've been in the clouds for weeks now.

[STEVE333]

Nice camera, good price in comparison to other all in one camera/filter wheels. It has its pros and cons, any idea on the back focus for it? , it seems pretty compact and enough room for an oag and corrector.

Shouldn't be hard to just make an extra front part housing for it with an inbuilt oag or possibly a 7 filter version.

Not sure about the back focus other than the fact they say that the mounted 1.25" filters will work fine with my F4.9 telescope.
I don't ever plan on using an OAG, so, can't help you there.
There is plenty of room for including a corrector.
I'm actually now thinking the combination with the external 8-position filter wheel (8 x 31 mm) will work better for me. I'll explain that in a following post in this thread.

We are both on the same track Steve. I am ready to order a ASI533 OSC and use the ethernet extender to control from inside. I am curious how your extender will work with the new camera as it is USB2. I was looking at all of the options on amazon last night. While I am currently using the Stellarmate, I now have a Windows computer of my own for the very first time, so it is now loaded with APT and PHD2 ready for first light.

Now all I need are some clear skies as we've been in the clouds for weeks now.

Hi Mac - The folks at HIGH POINT said the ASI1600 series cameras have both USB2 and USB3 outputs. The USB3 is only needed for high frame rate operation which clearly isn't necessary for DSO imaging. So, the ethernet extender operating on USB2 should work fine.

Best of success with your new setup. I've really enjoyed having the laptop setup inside the house with the ethernet extender.

Cheers -
Steve

[STEVE333]

I'm considering a slightly new direction for my new setup. My main interest is in collecting Ha and Oiii data for HOO processing. From my location and limited sky that will entail at least two nights of data collection. If I can get enough clear skies and energy I may try to also collect the Sii data on a third night for SHO processing. However, I have seen many NB images where RGB stars have been put back into the image and they look very nice. Having the option to do this does seem a good idea. With only a 5-position filter wheel this isn't a realistic possibility (don't want to change filters!). Thus, the ASI1600GT wouldn't work for this (only 5-position).

So, I'm now considering the ASI1600MM camera + ZWO EFW 8 x 31 mm filter wheel. It comes as a bundle with 31 mm ZWO R/G/B/L filters and S/H/O filters. I'll still get the Baader 4.5nm Oiii filter to replace the ZWO Oiii filter.

I believe this is the setup that JimMinCT uses (other than the Baader filter) and his images are beautiful. Of course, his excellent image processing may have something to do with that.

For this amount of money I guess we get to change our minds a few times?

Cheers,
Steve

[yobbo89]

yes, i was looking at the pros and cons of the gt model, if only it had an extra 2 filter slots , turns out 5 isn't even enough for planetary imaging ! good idea on going the with the ultra narrow oiii filter later.

[Baskevo]

I'm considering a slightly new direction for my new setup. My main interest is in collecting Ha and Oiii data for HOO processing. From my location and limited sky that will entail at least two nights of data collection. If I can get enough clear skies and energy I may try to also collect the Sii data on a third night for SHO processing. However, I have seen many NB images where RGB stars have been put back into the image and they look very nice. Having the option to do this does seem a good idea. With only a 5-position filter wheel this isn't a realistic possibility (don't want to change filters!). Thus, the ASI1600GT wouldn't work for this (only 5-position).

So, I'm now considering the ASI1600MM camera + ZWO EFW 8 x 31 mm filter wheel. It comes as a bundle with 31 mm ZWO R/G/B/L filters and S/H/O filters. I'll still get the Baader 4.5nm Oiii filter to replace the ZWO Oiii filter.

I believe this is the setup that JimMinCT uses (other than the Baader filter) and his images are beautiful. Of course, his excellent image processing may have something to do with that.

For this amount of money I guess we get to change our minds a few times?

Cheers,
Steve

That is a good point about the filter wheel! I have the exact same bundle with an 8-position wheel, and I have been happy with it, other than the Oiii filter. Since they updated the filters, I haven't seen any bad reviews on them except for the Oiii, and a couple of really great reviews too. I have been really happy with them so far. I get a few star halos, but personally I think they add character to images Even the Oiii has given me some good frames.

I kind of wish I went with the mounted 1.25" filters though. I think they would be a lot easier to install in the filter wheel. 31mm is REALLY tiny and can be difficult to install. Once installed though, they are great I'm not sure if there is any disadvantage to the 1.25" mounted.

Here's another tip for you: remember which filter position you install each filter in. The filter wheel has numbered positions, and ASCOM knows which position is which. I wasn't paying attention, and I had to uninstall everything to find out which were my color filters