How well does the QHY 168C sensor work?

[STEVE333]

Hi all - I'm thinking about purchasing a QHY 168C sensor because of its large size and reasonable price. I'm only interested in a color camera and not a monochrome.

Any comments GOOD or BAD would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

[JayTee]

Hi Steve,

Don't forget about the ZWO version, the ZWO ASI 071MC Pro. It's a bit less expensive.
https://starizona.com/store/imaging/cam ... -pro-color

Cheers,
JT

[pmwolsley]

Steve,
I am also looking to purchase a cooled color astrocam as I am upgrading from my APS-C Nikon D5300 (Ha Modded). I have decided to go with a QHY294C. It has slightly smaller pixels (4.63uM compared to the 4.8uM in the 168C) but the main reason, for me, is the higher QE. I just figure a higher QE will allow me to collect more electrons per hour which should give me better data given the limited time I can allocate to this hobby. The Nikon D5300, QHY168C and QHY294C all feature a 14b A/D.

In my mind I want to purchase a faster camera than my D5300. While shooting at unity gain (ISO200 for the D5300) with my equipment, it takes roughly 400 to 500 seconds before the stars saturate. I calculate that going from 3.91uM pixels in my D5300 to 4.63uM in the 294C and also increasing the QE from 55% in the D5300 to over 75% in the 294C the camera will saturate in almost half the time. This could double the number of photos taken per hour with the same number of electrons collected per photo.

Both the 168C and the 294C have deep fullwells. 46Ke for the 168C and 65Ke for the 294C. My D5300 is estimated to have a fullwell of 36ke so I am hoping the star halos will be reduced as well. The chip in the Nikon D5300 is the same as in the QHY247C.

I don't really want to lose the APS-C chip size which the 168C has. The 294C has a 4/3" sensor so I may need to do some mosaics (which I have never tried). I just concluded that more data/hour is paramount for me.

Hopefully some 168C users will chime in here to give their "hands on" experience.

Happy Holidays

Peter

[Baskevo]

Hi Steve,

Don't forget about the ZWO version, the ZWO ASI 071MC Pro. It's a bit less expensive.
https://starizona.com/store/imaging/cam ... -pro-color

Cheers,
JT

One just went up on CN classified's I believe

[STEVE333]

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm now thinking of going to NB imaging. I believe my Astro Duo-Narrowband filter is causing some halos around bright stars. They really mess up the image, and, I've only found a way to slightly reduce them but it leaves the stars looking odd.

I've seen manny NB images and they don't have the same halo problem. So, going NB should reduce my noise a bit and solve the halo problem at the same time. Also, being able to create Master Darks would be a breeze with a controlled temperature sensor. I've been resisting this, but, at 78 if I'm going to do it I better get started soon!! More time to enjoy it.

I've been looking at the ZWO ASI1600MM Pro that comes with a bundle which includes: a 7 x 36 mm Filter Wheel and a set of 36 mm LRGB and SHO (7 nm) filters along with several extenders, adapters and spacers plus some USB cables. It's sold by OPT for $1999. I'm going to give them a call and discuss how to connect it to my telescopes.

Steve

[XCalRocketMan]

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm now thinking of going to NB imaging. I believe my Astro Duo-Narrowband filter is causing some halos around bright stars. They really mess up the image, and, I've only found a way to slightly reduce them but it leaves the stars looking odd.

I've seen manny NB images and they don't have the same halo problem. So, going NB should reduce my noise a bit and solve the halo problem at the same time. Also, being able to create Master Darks would be a breeze with a controlled temperature sensor. I've been resisting this, but, at 78 if I'm going to do it I better get started soon!! More time to enjoy it.

I've been looking at the ZWO ASI1600MM Pro that comes with a bundle which includes: a 7 x 36 mm Filter Wheel and a set of 36 mm LRGB and SHO (7 nm) filters along with several extenders, adapters and spacers plus some USB cables. It's sold by OPT for $1999. I'm going to give them a call and discuss how to connect it to my telescopes.

Steve

I have both a QHY10 (OSC), which was my first astro-camera, and the ASI1600mm Pro which I bought to do NB and LRGB imaging. The camera is really nice; the filter wheel adequate (I've had no issues with it for about 2 years now). The LRGB filter set is also very good. The NB filters are so-so. They will produce halos around bright stars. I used them for quite awhile but eventually saved up and spent the $$$ for a set of 31mm unmounted Astrodon NB (5nm Ha, 3nm Oiii and 5nm Sii) filters. I think the camera is a great buy and a good start in the NB imaging arena. Just be forewarned that the ZWO NB filters do have the issue of halos. I don't own the Duo band filter so I can't tell you if the halos are as bad, worse, or better. One other issue with the ASI1600 is that the sensor window is not properly anti-reflective, so you sometimes get a mosaic effect around very bright stars, regardless of the filters you use. But all-in-all, for the money, the camera has (and still is) serving me well.

[yobbo89]

good choice, steve, i opt for a better set of filters mainly the oiii , but price can't be beat with that asi1600 ,filter wheel and lrgb,ha,sii,oiii filter deal.

microlensing is a problem mainly only from those monster stars like alnitak ,no problems with bright nebula cores like m42 ectt.i believe that it's not the filter sensor window from the camera housing that causes this,it would be great if it was , i could just swap out the window, but i'm pretty sure it's caused from the coating on the chip itself,it seems cmos chips are coated in some sort of clear protective substrate and for the asi1600 it might be a "microlens" hence the term of the defect in images on bright objects.

i'm just speculating on what the problem might be, doing a little research on it,sorry for any incorrect diagrams.

I guess they do this to get more photons on the sensor pixel,to boost the chips q.e,i guess it could cause more problems on faster scopes.

here is a good read.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/6359 ... explained/

[STEVE333]

I have both a QHY10 (OSC), which was my first astro-camera, and the ASI1600mm Pro which I bought to do NB and LRGB imaging. The camera is really nice; the filter wheel adequate (I've had no issues with it for about 2 years now). The LRGB filter set is also very good. The NB filters are so-so. They will produce halos around bright stars. I used them for quite awhile but eventually saved up and spent the $$$ for a set of 31mm unmounted Astrodon NB (5nm Ha, 3nm Oiii and 5nm Sii) filters. I think the camera is a great buy and a good start in the NB imaging arena. Just be forewarned that the ZWO NB filters do have the issue of halos. I don't own the Duo band filter so I can't tell you if the halos are as bad, worse, or better. One other issue with the ASI1600 is that the sensor window is not properly anti-reflective, so you sometimes get a mosaic effect around very bright stars, regardless of the filters you use. But all-in-all, for the money, the camera has (and still is) serving me well.

good choice, steve, i opt for a better set of filters mainly the oiii , but price can't be beat with that asi1600 ,filter wheel and lrgb,ha,sii,oiii filter deal.

microlensing is a problem mainly only from those monster stars like alnitak ,no problems with bright nebula cores like m42 ectt.i believe that it's not the filter sensor window from the camera housing that causes this,it would be great if it was , i could just swap out the window, but i'm pretty sure it's caused from the coating on the chip itself,it seems cmos chips are coated in some sort of clear protective substrate and for the asi1600 it might be a "microlens" hence the term of the defect in images on bright objects.

i'm just speculating on what the problem might be, doing a little research on it,sorry for any incorrect diagrams.

I guess they do this to get more photons on the sensor pixel,to boost the chips q.e,i guess it could cause more problems on faster scopes.

here is a good read.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/6359 ... explained/

Thanks guys - So many choices and features. I don't plan on doing any LRGB imaging because of the bad LP at my location which is why I'm going to NB in the first place. So, I really only need the SHO set of filters. Maybe it would be better to just buy the camera + Filter Wheel and then get a better set of SHO filters.

Steve

[Baskevo]

Steve,

I can vouch for the new ZWO filters that comes in the bundle you are talking about, except for the Oiii filter. Those do cause quite a bit of halos. But I have been very happy with the Ha and Sii filters There is a review of the new filters on CN which, along with the price of a good set of NB filters, convinced me to stick with them. I am hoping to upgrade the Oiii, though.

NB is a lot of fun and there are tons of targets you can go for... And, if you have enough time on a target, LRGB can be done in heavy LP. I live in a bortle 9 and I am going to try it! I feel like you should be good in a bortle 5, if your signature is accurate. It can't be worse than an DSLR, right?

I'm also discovering "synthetic RGB" color combinations you can do with SHO, which is pretty close! It's still obviously NB, But you can do some really cool stuff with NB. It will open up a whole new world of AP for you! You can go through a lot of the messier list again

[STEVE333]

Steve,

I can vouch for the new ZWO filters that comes in the bundle you are talking about, except for the Oiii filter. Those do cause quite a bit of halos. But I have been very happy with the Ha and Sii filters There is a review of the new filters on CN which, along with the price of a good set of NB filters, convinced me to stick with them. I am hoping to upgrade the Oiii, though.

NB is a lot of fun and there are tons of targets you can go for... And, if you have enough time on a target, LRGB can be done in heavy LP. I live in a bortle 9 and I am going to try it! I feel like you should be good in a bortle 5, if your signature is accurate. It can't be worse than an DSLR, right?

I'm also discovering "synthetic RGB" color combinations you can do with SHO, which is pretty close! It's still obviously NB, But you can do some really cool stuff with NB. It will open up a whole new world of AP for you! You can go through a lot of the messier list again

Thanks for the feedback James.

[XCalRocketMan]

good choice, steve, i opt for a better set of filters mainly the oiii , but price can't be beat with that asi1600 ,filter wheel and lrgb,ha,sii,oiii filter deal.

microlensing is a problem mainly only from those monster stars like alnitak ,no problems with bright nebula cores like m42 ectt.i believe that it's not the filter sensor window from the camera housing that causes this,it would be great if it was , i could just swap out the window, but i'm pretty sure it's caused from the coating on the chip itself,it seems cmos chips are coated in some sort of clear protective substrate and for the asi1600 it might be a "microlens" hence the term of the defect in images on bright objects.

i'm just speculating on what the problem might be, doing a little research on it,sorry for any incorrect diagrams.

I guess they do this to get more photons on the sensor pixel,to boost the chips q.e,i guess it could cause more problems on faster scopes.

here is a good read.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/6359 ... explained/

Yep - I stand corrected. It is the microlens not the sensor cover that is the issue.

[XCalRocketMan]

Don't give up entirely on LRGB. I'm in a Bortle 5-6 area and with some extra attention to the post processing I can still get some pretty good images. I moved to NB partially because of the LP in my area, but you still need LRGB for reflection nebulae and LDNs. And, I sometimes add in RGB stars as replacements for the NB stars.

[STEVE333]

Hi Mikey - Thanks for responding to this post.

I'm really enjoying my WFOV imaging. The Astro Duo-Narrowband filter that I'm using does a very nice job of reducing the LP interference, but, it is producing halos around bright stars. This is what is driving me towards NB.

The problem doing RGB is that I have somewhat limited available "sky time" because I can only see the Eastern half of the sky. Combining that with clouds, moon and old age means I have trouble getting all the required data for a target. I figure if I do HOO imaging at least I only have two NB wavelengths to collect. I'll probably still get the Sii filter for the times I'm able to capture data for all three wavelengths.

Really liked your Elephant's Trunk nebula image. That inspires me to look into NB.

Cheers,
Steve

[XCalRocketMan]

Hi Mikey - Thanks for responding to this post.

I'm really enjoying my WFOV imaging. The Astro Duo-Narrowband filter that I'm using does a very nice job of reducing the LP interference, but, it is producing halos around bright stars. This is what is driving me towards NB.

The problem doing RGB is that I have somewhat limited available "sky time" because I can only see the Eastern half of the sky. Combining that with clouds, moon and old age means I have trouble getting all the required data for a target. I figure if I do HOO imaging at least I only have two NB wavelengths to collect. I'll probably still get the Sii filter for the times I'm able to capture data for all three wavelengths.

Really liked your Elephant's Trunk nebula image. That inspires me to look into NB.

Cheers,
Steve

Although I didn't do this on the Elephant Trunk, I usually add RGB stars. The stars only require a fairly short exposure (I usually go for 30 subs at 30-60sec) so it doesn't take too long. But you are right - with restricted views you need to prioritize. With my restricted view (my house is at the base of a copse of trees, so my available minimum altitude is 25 degrees all around) it sometimes takes a couple of nights to get an image. The Elephant Trunk took about 10 days to complete!! NB mosaics really eat up imaging time

[STEVE333]

Hi Mikey - Thanks for responding to this post.

I'm really enjoying my WFOV imaging. The Astro Duo-Narrowband filter that I'm using does a very nice job of reducing the LP interference, but, it is producing halos around bright stars. This is what is driving me towards NB.

The problem doing RGB is that I have somewhat limited available "sky time" because I can only see the Eastern half of the sky. Combining that with clouds, moon and old age means I have trouble getting all the required data for a target. I figure if I do HOO imaging at least I only have two NB wavelengths to collect. I'll probably still get the Sii filter for the times I'm able to capture data for all three wavelengths.

Really liked your Elephant's Trunk nebula image. That inspires me to look into NB.

Cheers,
Steve

Although I didn't do this on the Elephant Trunk, I usually add RGB stars. The stars only require a fairly short exposure (I usually go for 30 subs at 30-60sec) so it doesn't take too long. But you are right - with restricted views you need to prioritize. With my restricted view (my house is at the base of a copse of trees, so my available minimum altitude is 25 degrees all around) it sometimes takes a couple of nights to get an image. The Elephant Trunk took about 10 days to complete!! NB mosaics really eat up imaging time

I feel your pain about the restricted view. The time you spent on the Elephant's Trunk was certainly worth it. I even forgot it was a 4-panel mosaic. It looks so perfect!!!

Cheers,
Steve