Upgrading to Monochrome

[Baskevo]

Hi y'all,

I've decided I am going to upgrade to a monochrome setup. When I started doing AP in August, I just wanted to take simple images to show off to friends and family, but the closer I get to pretty good images, the better data I want. Here is my logic.

After purchasing 2 DSLR's, one to keep stock and another to modify, I've already spent more than half the amount of a decent monochrome camera. I still have to get my camera modified, which I could do myself, but I'd rather get it done by a professional. This brings me pretty close to the price of a mono CMOS camera. Then, I would definitely want to get some more filters to shoot in narrowband, but when I have brought it up people just tell me to upgrade to monochrome lol because I would want to buy the filters for both DSLR and CMOS.
If I were to modify my DSLR and purchase some narrowband filters, I think I would regret not going straight into mono for the same total price.

I live in a bortle 8, and from the beginning I have been told the best way to get through that is with narrowband imaging.

With the Black Friday sales going on, I believe my best bet is to sell one of my DSLR's (I'll keep one of em, just in case I ever want to use it again or get it modified, even though I probably wouldn't use it) and use that to help pay for a mono CMOS camera. Now where I need help is figuring out what I will need...

I will be shooting mostly in narrowband. I have seen a lot of great images with the Explore Scientific ED80 and the ZWO ASI1600MM Pro, so I'm leaning toward that one... but there are so many options, I want to make sure I get the right one. I might want eventually get a focal reducer for some of the larger objects, but the FOV isn't that much smaller than my t7i.

Here are my questions: Is the ASI1600MM Pro my best option? I was also looking at the ASI183mm Pro, or maybe one of the QHY cameras (I haven't done a whole lot of research on em yet).

I'm looking specifically at the bundles on Highpointscientific.com, and they have a few... some with the EFW mini's, and there are the 1.25", 31mm, and 36mm filters. Would the 36mm be best to help with vignetting? I have heard that some use the 36mm with a camera lens, but I'm only going to be using it with my scope.

Here's a link to the 36mm: https://www.highpointscientific.com/zwo ... 1600mmp-k3

Is there anything else I would need to get started with this setup?

As always, I appreciate any advice you all can give me, or any suggestions on how to save a few bucks with this setup (rather than going with the bundle maybe?). Thank you everyone!

[JimMinCT]

Good Luck!
I have the 31mm unmounted 1600 Mono Pro. I have little to no vignetting.
The biggest advantage with the CMOS, is the cooling.
Being able to not only cool, but regulate the cooling, means you are now shooting on your terms, not Mother Nature's.
You can build your darks library at your discretion, etc...
I like mine. But you can generate some data in a hurry.

[JayTee]

Before you do anything, go look at the cost of quality filters. Small passband filters are quite pricey some of them approaching $700 each and you will need three of them. If you want to shoot color with a mono camera you will need filters and not just any filter will do.

The cost of the filter wheel and a set of quality filters will almost equal the cost of the camera.

JT

[sdbodin]

I have the 1600MC, same size chip. Have no problem with 1.25" filters, but it would depend on the distance in front of the chip and this can vary with different filter wheels and combination of spacers and the f ratio of the converging light cone. Some design work necessary, a full scale drawing works, but you will have to draw it yourself.

I have used the camera with my AT80LE f6 and ZWO wheel successfully and with 135 and 250mm camera lenses.

BTW, narrow band filters work wonderfully with the color cam too, but it is no longer made.

Clear skies,
Steve

[Baskevo]

Before you do anything, go look at the cost of quality filters. Small passband filters are quite pricey some of them approaching $700 each and you will need three of them. If you want to shoot color with a mono camera you will need filters and not just any filter will do.

The cost of the filter wheel and a set of quality filters will almost equal the cost of the camera.

JT

So the link I posted above is a bundle that includes a filter wheel, plus LRGB filters and Ha, Sii, and Oiii filters. Would those not work well? Total price for everything including the camera is 1799. Or if I want to do the 31mm it’s around 1499 I believe (Black Friday sales).
Those would be fine wouldn’t they?

[Baskevo]

So after doing a TON of research on filters, I think I still want to go with the ZWO bundle... As long as they are the newer gen 2 filters, and not gen 1. Which, I will obviously check them when I get them to make sure they are good.

I found this post that does a comparison of the newer ZWO filters:
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/6271 ... n-filters/

Obviously, they won't be as high of quality as Astrodon filters, and as with most everything in AP, I will get what I pay for and will likely have to put in more work than I would with a $700 filter. With that said, I think I can still get some pretty great images with mono and the ZWO filters, especially when comparing to my DSLR images in heavy light pollution. I have also been scouring astrobin for images with the ZWO filters, and I have seen some really impressive images.

I was also thinking about cutting the cost on the set up by getting a manual filter wheel because I am always checking my rig throughout the night and wouldn't be that much of a hassle, and using that extra cash on some better filters, but I have also read that the manual filter wheels can produce some light leakage and can be more hassle. I figured I would probably benefit more from an EFW than I would from either optolong or Baader filters...

What do you all think? Does anyone have experience with the newer ZWO filters and would like to add some feedback? I appreciate all the advice everyone, thank you so much.

[Stuart]

Hi James,

I don't have any comments on the CMOS camera you are looking at because I'm a CCD guy. I have a friend who bought the 1600M at AIC a couple of years ago and loves it. My only comment is your comment on manual filter wheel. My feeling is that unless your budget is really super tight, then I'd go for the automatic filter wheel. You may be surprised at how often you find the need to change filters. Make sure you read reviews on the build quality and look at any negative reviews. If you're just going to do narrowband then keep in mind that a 7 nm filter won't filter out moon glow especially in the O3 filter because the bandpass will overlap. But when you start talking about 3nm filters then you're talking big bucks. You can always sell the filters on Astromart or wherever if you decide you want more contrast. My last image of Melotte 15 (see the Photos section) was taken with 5 nm filters, but I had no moon. You might call Dustin at OPT and get his opinion as well.

The other thing to think about is pixel size and what your image resolution will be. You don't want it to be too oversampled unless you're planning on doing high mag planetary imaging.

Stuart

[Baskevo]

Hi James,

I don't have any comments on the CMOS camera you are looking at because I'm a CCD guy. I have a friend who bought the 1600M at AIC a couple of years ago and loves it. My only comment is your comment on manual filter wheel. My feeling is that unless your budget is really super tight, then I'd go for the automatic filter wheel. You may be surprised at how often you find the need to change filters. Make sure you read reviews on the build quality and look at any negative reviews. If you're just going to do narrowband then keep in mind that a 7 nm filter won't filter out moon glow especially in the O3 filter because the bandpass will overlap. But when you start talking about 3nm filters then you're talking big bucks. You can always sell the filters on Astromart or wherever if you decide you want more contrast. My last image of Melotte 15 (see the Photos section) was taken with 5 nm filters, but I had no moon. You might call Dustin at OPT and get his opinion as well.

The other thing to think about is pixel size and what your image resolution will be. You don't want it to be too oversampled unless you're planning on doing high mag planetary imaging.

Stuart

Thanks for the advice Stuart! I think I'm going to stick with the bundle with the EFW. I'm okay with not filtering out moon glow, at least for now, and I'm sure I will want to upgrade eventually, but like you said I can always sell them

I calculated the pixel size and the resolution, and it's not that much different from my t7i: t7i was 1.59 "/pixel and the 1600 is 1.63 "/pixel And I've seen a lot of great shots with my setup and that camera. I think I'm going to do it! I'm nervous

Edit: I just ordered it... I feel a cold chill come over me... Probably just the horrible 2 weeks of clouds we have coming Sorry California

[Stuart]

Hi James,
1.63"/pixel is great.
Clear skies!
Stuart

[JayTee]

Hi James,

The astronomy tools on this website are invaluable. Especially the FOV and CCD Suitability calculators. Go take a peek.
https://astronomy.tools/

Cheers,
JT

[Baskevo]

Hi James,

The astronomy tools on this website are invaluable. Especially the FOV and CCD Suitability calculators. Go take a peek.
https://astronomy.tools/

Cheers,
JT

That is what I used! I remembered it from when you shared it the first time with me! See, I'm learning JT

[fatboy1271]

So you're why I can't see anything in the night sky! You ordered what I want and now we have a month of no seeing

I almost purchased that bundle a couple months ago so I'm excited for you and to hear how well it works out in our situation. I'm sure I missed it, but did you finally get a working ES ED80 or did you end up moving on from it?

[Baskevo]

So you're why I can't see anything in the night sky! You ordered what I want and now we have a month of no seeing

I almost purchased that bundle a couple months ago so I'm excited for you and to hear how well it works out in our situation. I'm sure I missed it, but did you finally get a working ES ED80 or did you end up moving on from it?

You probably hate me right now! lol I am glad I got the new camera. I can't wait for these clouds to clear! Probably won't until at the earliest Sunday

Well I moved on from the ES ED80 to the ES 80mm with the FCD100 glass and the 2.5" HEX focuser, and I am staying with that OTA, at least for now!