How should I control my DSLR?

[Baskevo]

Hey guys,

So my ZWO ASI120MM-Mini and guidescope came! I'm going to try it out tomorrow night. I downloaded SharpCap for the polar alignment feature, and PHD2 for auto guiding. I have the camera drivers installed and I have confirmed it works

Using all of this software though, I was also wondering if it would be better to control my DSLR using my laptop?

I have a little under 20gb of storage left on my MacBook Air (after partitioning the 128gb hard drive for a Windows 10 bootcamp). Can I control my DSLR with my laptop, take pictures and have them be placed on the external hard drive? Or maybe control the DSLR to get framing, focusing, etc., and have it take pictures on the camera's SD card? What do you think?

Does anyone have a program they would recommend, or can I use one of the programs I already installed (SharpCap, PHD2) to control both the guide camera and my DSLR? or would you recommend not using a computer for controlling the DSLR?

Thanks! Clear skies.

[bobharmony]

FWIW, I have been using Backyard EOS to control my Canon for several years and am quite happy with the results. I am not sure if SharpCap has any capability in this area, but I'm sure someone who knows will be along soon.

Bob

[JayTee]

There are two programs I can recommend, a free one and a commercial one. Both are windows OS software.
The one for free is N.I.N.A. See this post for details. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=628
The commercial title is Astrophotography Tool (APT). I think it is a mere €18.7 ($20.66) and it is worth every penny. APT is what I use because I use a DSLR. https://ideiki.com/astro/Download.aspx
I own and use both APT and Backyard EOS (BYE), APT is by far the more capable title (and it is less than half the cost) but BYE has a nicer and somewhat easier UI.

Can I control my DSLR with my laptop, take pictures and have them be placed on the external hard drive? Or maybe control the DSLR to get framing, focusing, etc., and have it take pictures on the camera's SD card?

You can do all of those tasks (and lots more) with the software titles mentioned above. Also, if you get a 64Gb SD card for your camera, you will never fill it up in a weekend with individual long exposure images. Planetary video acquired with your DSLR, on the other hand, is an altogether different thing.

Sharpcap will not control a DSLR.

Cheers,
JT

[seigell]

Two of the most popular programs for DSLR AP Imaging are BackyardEOS "BYE" (since you list a Canon T7i) and AstroPhotography Tool "APT" (supports Canon and Nikon DSLRs).

BYE is more popular with beginners and those looking for a Clean and Focused UI. The developer works to keep everything happening on the main window in front of the user. But still supports all the major functions of an AP Image Capture program.

APT covers both DSLRs and CMOS/CCD Cameras and has more "peripheral features", but does the same basic AP Image Capture functionality. The UI is much busier (confusing to a beginner), but more options are there.

Both of these programs support connection to PHD2 AutoGuiding, which will also need to be running in your Bootcamp.

There are other AP Imaging related programs that you'll hear about which will easily overfill your small 20GB storage capacity (and probably aren't needed unless you have specific need), but you may well need to add ASCOM for connectivity between your Bootcamp and the Mount (adds functionality to BYE/APT and PHD2).

For Image Storage, BYE needs a "Temporary" Image Directory on the local machine but can then automatically move the captured Images to External HDD or USB Stick. It can even leave them on the Camera SD Card - but at the loss of Image Review functionality. APT has essentially the same functionality.

There's a lot to consider when starting the "deep dive" into AP Imaging. But selecting either BYE or APT (and adding PHD2) will probably be your best start...

[Baskevo]

Awesome. So will BYE or APT assist with polar alignment like Sharpcap? I know PHD2 has a drift alignment function, but I heard that Sharpcap is better for polar alignment.
Will BYE and APT control only one of my cameras at a time, and that's why I also need PHD2 installed? One for imaging, one for auto guiding? Or do BYE and APT use PHD2 to be able to auto guide?

Just to clarify:
I can use SharpCap (or one of the other programs?) for polar alignment.
PHD2 for autoguiding
BYE or APT for controlling my DSLR.

This is probably a more advanced question since I haven't touched the programs yet lol, but can I take one or two pictures for image review, to make sure I like the framing, etc. and then switch back to using the storage on my camera's 128gb SD card?

the only thing I need now (I think) is a field flattener! Thanks for all of the help, everyone! This forum has been a godsend.

[fatboy1271]

I'll throw out my input and we have very similar setups; however, there are way more experienced users that have already replied.

I've used BYEOS for years and I LOVE IT! With that said, I am using it very little these days because I switched to NINA. BYEOS just works and works incredibly well. It is finely tuned for my older 450D and, while no longer new, newer 70D.

NINA is my recommendation. Eventually you will want to do Sequencing and if you get a Focuser or Filter Wheel you'll need software to control those too. NINA does that plus works with PHD2, Plate Solving, it has a Flat Wizard... It's fairly new to the game but the Support on their Discord channel is amazing and the thing is Free. My only wish is that I could pay to have them port BYEOS into their program. The Camera functions work well; however, it occasionally shuts down my 70D. Luckily it hasn't done that during a Sequence though.

I tried APT two or three times, so anything I say I admit is unfair to the program. My issue is that I cannot get past the Camera portion of the program. JT, Jim, or someone else can tell me I'm being "silly" about this but with BYEOS and NINA I can middle mouse zoom in and out all day/night long. From the APT User Guide:

Using "Zoom +" and "Zoom -" you can increase/decrease the LiveView zoom level to 5x (or 10x if it is clicked two times). For most EOS cameras Zoom x5 is very close to the representation "1:1" - "one pixel from the image, represents one sensor pixel". It is valuable feature for planetary astro-photography.

To me that's stuck in the stone age... One, it's not intuitive. Two, I need more control over my zoom capabilities. Edit: I should mention APT does Sequencing, PHD2, and so on.

Well, that's what I've got for ya Hopefully nothing I've said will steer you in the wrong direction. Regardless, BYEOS costs money. NINA is 100% free. APT can be free if you don't need a few of the offerings that they have. Try NINA and APT and see how they work for you.

[fatboy1271]

I missed your second post. I highly recommend the PoleMaster for super easy Polar Alignment! It's around $270 so if you don't have that lying around I can understand that...

BYEOS can control two Canons at the same time but that's not what you want for autoguiding. PHD2 will be your autoguiding software no matter what. Now, as stated above, other programs can link into PHD2 but it is the one using the guide cam and talking to your mount.

All the programs let you take single images until you dial in what you want to shoot. Then you run x number of captures from there. The great thing about Plate Solving is that something like NINA and APT take an image of the sky, analyze its location, and then will center on your target! The Sequence tab in NINA has a marker for Plate Solve and Center at start, so if you're "close enough" it will center your target and then rattle off how many frames you want.

[Baskevo]

Okay cool... I was recommended to use SharpCap for polar alignment instead of porking out another $270 for the PoleMaster. And I want the computer to control the number of images I can take, framing, etc. all of that, but I want to frame the picture through the program, and then have it take pictures to store it onto the camera-installed SD card (as I don't have enough space on my computer). Is that possible? Or will I not be able to do framing at all if I want the storage on the SD card?

So I hope you guys don't mind if I clarify a bit more...

I will connect the guidescope to my computer with the USB-C cable, and my mount with the ST-4 cable. Then I will connect my mount to my computer with a mini-USB cable through the hand controller? Will I still be able to use the GoTo system after that, or will I have to do plate solving to be able to slew to my target..?

[JayTee]

Just to muddy the waters further, BYE does not do as much or as thoroughly as APT. Yes, APT is a bit more difficult to use than BYE but it also has many more functions than BYE and is the much more capable piece of software.

Also, N.I.N.A. was written for and is mostly dedicated to CCD / CMOS Astro cams. It has a tendency to glitch when using a DSLR. This is a known issue.

JT

[OhNo]

APT Period. Now if your not planning to be around your set-up, a program like SGP or NINA is almost a must. NINA would be my second choice. It is free, but lacks an easy way to have your sequence start at a specific time. SGP is expensive, and you have to have your game face on while learning how to make all the pieces play nicely together.

Beware, my opinion comes from a background of manually having to make things work. Computers and all that comes with them came well after my prime learning time!

[Baskevo]

I think tonight, I'm going to try out SharpCap for polar alignment, PHD2 for auto guiding, and the demo version of APT for my DSLR... I will see how it goes! I will post back here with my results for those google searchers!

Thanks for the help, everyone! I am sure my questions are just beginning

[OhNo]

A trip to the barber for the shortest haircut of your life should be booked. Call it "preventative measures"! Won't stop ya from trying to pull your hair out, it just makes it harder to get a hold of. Even after you get it all working, something new always comes around to keep you puzzled!

Some thrive on these issues. Some call it fun!

Good luck.

[bobharmony]

You have gotten a lot of good advice from the fine folks here - hopefully it isn't too much

I am in the process of moving on from BYE at the moment. It has served me well as a tool for starting out over the past 4 years, and played very well with PHD2 for guiding, and AstroTortilla for platesolving. The new features I want to incorporate at this point are automatic meridian flips and the ability to automatically sequence more that one target in a session. Emphasis on automate - so I can sleep more on imaging nights.

I took a pass at N.I.N.A. first, and found that it could do those two new things for me. What I didn't like was that it won't report out the camera temperature from a DSLR. The main developer of the program rightly pointed out to me that temperature reported by Canon DSLRs is not the sensor temperature, and that trying to use that information to match lights and draks might not work well, but it is the only data point that is available to use as a starting point for matching, so that was a show stopper for me, at least until I get a dedicated astro camera.

Right now I am testing out APT functionality and hope to be able to run a session soon with it and validate it does what I want, and it does report out DSLR camera temperature. Both APT and NINA are capable programs and should serve you well if you decide to go down that road right now. BYE was a good starting point for me, but that doesn't mean it is where you should begin.

Bob

[Juno16]

Hi Baskevo,

Good luck tonight!

You sure have a lot of new and challenging things going on!

I had to take baby steps with each piece of software.

Sharpcap for PA is pretty cool.

Really looking forward to your report!

Thanks,
Jim

[Baskevo]

oooooh man tonight was horrible! Lol super frustrating.

First, I connected the guide scope to the autoguide port on the AVX mount with an ST-4 cable, then to my laptop with the USB-C to USB 2 cable. Perfect. I run Sharpcap, select my camera, But all I saw was black... I figured I wasn't focused. after playing with the focuser on the guide scope for a while, I thought maybe PHD2 would be a bit easier. It was a lot easier to get an image, but it took me about an hour to get it focused with the guide camera. Thank god I only have to do that once (hopefully... now I am second guessing the cheap guide scope). At this point, I'm seeing the same image in both Sharpcap and PHD2.

I installed APT and I connect my DSLR with the USB mini to USB cable, directly into the laptop. I was trying to read the user manual but I didn't understand it (like why would I need a RS232 cable to connect my DSLR?) I ignored the manual and went straight to run Astrophotography tool (which was probably my first mistake). connects with my camera no problem. The user interface is pretty confusing, but I was getting around just fine. I tried to use the focusing tool, but I couldn't figure it out... It kept changing my exposure to 30 seconds, so every time I'd try to take a test shot, I'd forget to check and then have to wait for the image to be done. I looked at APT and PHD2 to make sure that I was aligned with my guide scope, but Allas I was not.

So I spent another hour trying to get the guide scope aligned with my DSLR (I should have done this during the day). By this time, I'm pretty exhausted... PHD2 kept disconnecting my camera for some reason. But now I am aligned and focused. I decide to try the polar alignment function in SharpCap. I go to tools -> polar align, and it takes me through the setup... I guess it was supposed to be finding stars to be able to use with its database but it wasn't finding any stars. It said it was running but it wasn't doing anything.

I then realized that I didn't remember selecting any mount for any of the software, and I wondered how it could auto guide if my mount isn't connected to the computer, unless it is automatic through the ST-4 connected from the Autoguide camera to the AVX mount? I tried to look it up, and everyone says I need a serial cable that plugs into the bottom of the hand controller, but I don't have a serial port, just a USB-mini port...

I have a lot of reading to do, and a lot to learn for this one... I am also worried my lack of storage is going to cause me some troubles on my computer.

I'm going to try to do a deep dive into the user manuals, maybe just start with the auto guiding next time, see if I can get it working... If you guys have any suggestions, good resources, or anything to help me get this thing working, I would really appreciate it.

And if anyone could clarify whether I have to attach my mount separately to my computer with the USB-mini port on the bottom of the nexstar controller, or if the ST-4 connection from the guidescope to the mount will communicate through the guide scope to computer connection (if that makes sense), I would be forever grateful...

[Juno16]

Hi Baskevo,

All of the issues that you had last night have happened to most of us. In my case, usually one or two at a time.

You tried to bite off a big chunk last night! I have some familiarity with all of the applications you were using and I still have issues most nights.

Setting up the guide scope and camera during the day got me close enough to just fine tune at night.
After the guide scope setup, I went out one night just to play with guiding. There is so much more for me to learn about guiding!

As far as APT, there are many things going on there too. Maybe set up an imaging session inside during the day and fine tune it at night. The focus aid will get you pretty close just trying to get the lowest values. The batinov aid is much better, but took me a bit to get it down.

As far as the mount. I also have an AVX and I use the mini usb on the bottom of the HC to connect to the PC. I never used the ST4 port because I read about how much better it is to use ascom. It tells PHD2 where your mount is pointing. I installed the ascom platform before I used PHD2 and use the Celestron driver for the PHD2 mount selection. I might be off by a few words since I’m not using my imaging laptop right now. If you are interested, I will look at it and respond later.

Maybe another member here can explain about ascom vs. st-4 better than I can.

Thanks for letting us know how your night went! Totally normal!

Thanks,
Jim

[Baskevo]

Thank you, Jim! Unfortunately, I won't be able to try again for a few days, at least I will definitely try tuning during the day.

As far as the mount. I also have an AVX and I use the mini usb on the bottom of the HC to connect to the PC. I never used the ST4 port because I read about how much better it is to use ascom. It tells PHD2 where your mount is pointing. I installed the ascom platform before I used PHD2 and use the Celestron driver for the PHD2 mount selection. I might be off by a few words since I’m not using my imaging laptop right now. If you are interested, I will look at it and respond later.

Maybe another member here can explain about ascom vs. st-4 better than I can.

Thanks for letting us know how your night went! Totally normal!

Thanks,
Jim

So, you're not connecting the camera to the mount at all? BTW, I'm using a ZWO camera. I can just connect that to my laptop with a USB-C cable, and then connect my mount separately with the USB mini cable? Interesting... I installed ASCOM because it was recommended by one of the programs (I think APT), but I had no clue how to set it up, and I didn't totally understand what it was for... I did not install the Celestron driver, but It sounds like it wouldn't have made a difference because I was using ST-4. Thanks for the tip, Jim!

[Baskevo]

Also, one other thing... has anyone used the sky portal wifi module? It looks kind of cool, and not very expensive...

[Juno16]

So, you're not connecting the camera to the mount at all? BTW, I'm using a ZWO camera. I can just connect that to my laptop with a USB-C cable, and then connect my mount separately with the USB mini cable? Interesting... I installed ASCOM because it was recommended by one of the programs (I think APT), but I had no clue how to set it up, and I didn't totally understand what it was for... I did not install the Celestron driver, but It sounds like it wouldn't have made a difference because I was using ST-4. Thanks for the tip, Jim!
[/quote]

Hi Baskevo,

When using ascom, the guide camera connects directly to the pc (or hub) and the mount from the mini usb on the bottom of the HC directly to the pc (or hub).

I don't know anything about ST-4, but it I think that it was widely used before ascom, so it does work. From what I read, ascom is a sort of unified collection of drivers (platform) whereas all or most of your AP devices can connect through. The advantage is that all speak the same language and the right hand knows what the left hand is doing.
As far as I know, ascom has drivers for most AP devices, ccd/cmos cameras, mounts, guide cameras, auto focusers, observatories, but not currently dslr's.

I am also new at AP and only basically understand. If another member can add, please do!

Yes, and if you try ascom, you will need to download the Celestron driver (I believe its called the unified driver).

This is what my PHD2 Connect Equipment window looks like.

I believe with ST-4, the Mount field should have "On Camera" selected.

This is so much to tackle all at once! At least it was for me. Maybe try to take on separate tasks each outing.

I remember that the first time I tried the Sharpcap PA routine, it was about 11 p.m. and I took the dogs out before bed. The sky had cleared up, so I drug out the mount and scope and roughly leveled it. I fired up the laptop and Sharpcap and gave it a try. Worked great! I did watch some Youtube videos first to get an idea how it was supposed to go.
I ran through the PA routine twice, then broke down the rig and went to bed happy!

I did have to mess with some of the settings like the digital gain, but you will get some idea which settings to mess with from the videos. My Orion SSAG is not connected right now, so I can't show you my settings, but you have a different camera anyway.

Good luck with all of this! Take it slow!

There is a lot to this! Like Brent (OhNo) said, trim your hair short!

Thanks,
Jim

[Juno16]

Oh, I forgot about the Sky Portal WiFi module.

Yes, I have one and used the heck out of it with my Nexstar 130 SLT. Works great for a quick setup and tapping your phone or WiFi and going to targets. I used it a couple of nights ago on the 130 SLT.

It does work with the AVX, however, the alignment is a fixed three star. I really prefer using the Celestron HC with the AVX. It picks my alignment stars and moves the mount pretty close. If it’s in the trees, just back up and go to another alignment Star.

Soon, after you get more familiar with APT or most other imaging applications, you will start plate solving on targets. Huge improvement jump from manually aligning the mount.

Thanks,
Jim