N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

Discuss what equipment, AP Software, AP Apps you are using.
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#1

Post by Juno16 »


I know that I am late to the party, but better late than never!

I just want to share my experience last night with the N.I.N.A. plugin Three Point Polar Alignment. Well, it was a very limited experience since clouds moved in about an hour after dark.

My last imaging session, I had issues with Sharpcap PA (solving). I have been using Sharpcap (just for PA) for a few years now and never had any issues. Thinking that it might just have been atmospheric conditions that night, I set up last night (knowing that the clouds were on the way) just to see if I could get Sharpcap back on track.

Polar alignment is pretty darn critical to a successful imaging session, so after doing some reading about N.I.N.A.'s new Three Point Polar Alignment plugin, I upgraded my existing Nightly 1.11 #053 to the latest Nightly 1.11 #123 where plugins are supported.

Last night, I set up and ran Sharpcap PA. Same issues with failed plate solving as the week before. Only rarely would the image solve and allow completion of the PA process. I tried resetting all of the settings to default and gradually working back to the previous settings that I had used with no luck.

Time to try N.I.N.A.

For those of you familiar with N.I.N.A., it is nice that the PA plugin is now included within the Imaging tab.

With the mount at the Home position, I clicked the play button. The mount slewed to the first point, took an image and solved (N.I.N.A. uses existing plate solving software and settings). After the solve (1-2 seconds with ASTAP), the mount slewed to the second point, took an image, and solved. The mount then slewed to the third point, took an image and solved. The PA error was then displayed with instructions as to which direction to move the ALTITUDE and AZIMUTH. A few quick adjustments, and I was under 1' (at the third point, images and solves are looping).

I ran the TPPA a few more times to check the PA and it repeated well.

Before the clouds overtook the sky, I slewed to NGC7000 just to take some test shots while guiding just so that I could check the PA error reported by PHD2. Repeating this twice, I found that PHD2 reported Polar Alignment error of 1.5' and 0.8'. Personally, I shoot for under 3', so I was thrilled to see these results.

Just wanted to share and see if anyone has any experience with the plugin.

Jim
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
Gordon United States of America
Site Admin
Site Admin
Articles: 1037
Offline
Posts: 8266
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:52 pm
4
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

I Broke The Forum.

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#2

Post by Gordon »


I will have to give that a try Jim.

Thanks for the info.
Gordon
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED80CF, Skywatcher 200 Quattro Imaging Newt, SeeStar S50 for EAA.
Mounts: Orion Atlas EQ-g mount & Skywatcher EQ5 Pro.
ZWO mini guider.
Image cameras: ZWO ASI1600 MM Cool, ZWO ASI533mc-Pro, ZWO ASI174mm-C (for use with my Quark chromosphere), ZWO ASI120MC
Filters: LRGB, Ha 7nm, O-III 7nm, S-II 7nm
Eyepieces: a few.
Primary software: Cartes du Ciel, N.I.N.A, StarTools V1.4.

Image
User avatar
JayTee United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 2
Offline
Posts: 5619
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:23 am
4
Location: Idaho, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#3

Post by JayTee »


Totally cool. When my new mount arrives I think I will start using N.I.N.A..

Thanks Jim,
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

Image
User avatar
XCalRocketMan United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 8:09 pm
4
Location: Reisterstown, MD USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#4

Post by XCalRocketMan »


I have had similar success with the TPA in N.I.N.A. By the way - N.I.N.A. has (for the foreseeable future) become my app of choice for running my rig.
Scopes Celestron EdgeHD-11; William Optics GT102; William Optics ZS61; Criterion Dynamax-8 SCT
Mounts AP1100GTO mount w/APCCpro; iOptron iEQ30 Pro; Criterion Dynamax-8 SCT
Lenses Hyperstar-III; Celestron 0.7x FR; WO Flat/Reducer 0.8x
Guiding Celestron OAG w/ASI174mm mini; WO 50mm; Orion ST80
Cameras and Filters ZWO2600mm Pro w/Optolong 3nm NB and RGB; ZWOASI1600mm Pro (ZWO LRGB and Astrodon Ha-5nm, Oiii-3nm, Sii-5nm), QHY10, Canon 50D; ASI174mm mini; ASI462MC; ASI120MC
Misc Moonlite focuser on Edge - Feather-Touch focuser on GT102; ZWO EAF on ZS61; ZWO 2" and 31mm FWs; Kendrick Dew System, Temp-est Fans
Software NINA; PHD; APT; BYE; PI; APP; PSP; Registax; FireCapture; SharpCap
Blog at: SkyAndRockets
User avatar
Graeme1858 Great Britain
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 1
Online
Posts: 7216
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm
4
Location: North Kent, UK
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

I Broke The Forum.

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#5

Post by Graeme1858 »


Sounds like a successful experimental night Jim.

I've been a fan of the old NINA PA routine for a while, it's not too quick but it is easy and accurate. I've not seen the new N.I.N.A. plugin Three Point Polar Alignment because I've not setup for a couple of months! But I'm definitely going to give it a go.

Looking forward to seeing your work Jim.

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#6

Post by Juno16 »


Graeme1858 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:09 am Sounds like a successful experimental night Jim.

I've been a fan of the old NINA PA routine for a while, it's not too quick but it is easy and accurate. I've not seen the new N.I.N.A. plugin Three Point Polar Alignment because I've not setup for a couple of months! But I'm definitely going to give it a go.

Looking forward to seeing your work Jim.

Regards

Graeme
I surely feel your pain!

Not setting up for months is no fun!

Well, I had a very successful first go, but we will have to see how everything runs when I finish setting up the Sharpstar. I robbed the guide camera and EAF from the ES 102ED.
I might swap guide cameras again, but I’m buying another EAF!

I will let you know how the N.I.N.A. TPPA runs at 270mm! It ran awesome on the ES 102ED.
I’ll be looking for a clearish night to start working things out.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#7

Post by chris_g »


I just discovered N.I.N.A. yesterday, new to the hobby, after Graeme1858 told me about it when I was looking for some way of doing a PA without being able able to see Polaris. I installed it last night after watching this video

It's extremely simple to use and it looks totally :cool: I'll will be checking it out my next session. Unfortunately clouds just rolled in for the next few days.
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
User avatar
SkyHiker United States of America
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2293
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:40 pm
4
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#8

Post by SkyHiker »


There is also a computer-less method if you have a DSLR with an LCD screen, if you can see Polaris (sorry). Just take a 30 sec exposure at high ISO and rotate RA to see where the center is. Mark this on the LCD somehow. Then, while leaving DEC and RA untouched, move the NCP to that point using the Alt/Az controls, from taking 2 to 3 sec pictures. There is an asterism that will help you locate the NCP (use Stellarium).
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#9

Post by Juno16 »


chris_g wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:09 pm I just discovered N.I.N.A. yesterday, new to the hobby, after @Graeme1858 told me about it when I was looking for some way of doing a PA without being able able to see Polaris. I installed it last night after watching this video

It's extremely simple to use and it looks totally :cool: I'll will be checking it out my next session. Unfortunately clouds just rolled in for the next few days.

Well Chris, you picked one of the best (and entertaining) folks to explain just about anything N.I.N.A. (and about everything astrophotography) in Cuiv. He is very knowledgeable and my favorite Youtube channel. He is also responsible for me parting over 2k$ of cash for my camera (ASI 533 MC Pro), telescope (Sharpstar 61), and processing application (Pixinsight) purchases. I regret none of these purchases at all! In fact, Cuiv definitely steered me in the right direction!

N.I.N.A. is awesome and I am looking forward to hearing about your upcoming TPPA. I use it every imaging session, but I do have a view of Polaris, so I use it straight out of the box (defaults).
Not sure what you are using for a plate solving application or camera, but I use my ASI533 at a gain of 100 (unity) with a 3 second exposure with ASTAP. I've tried several plate solving apps and ASTAP is the fastest by a long shot (a few seconds). If you don't use ASTAP, please consider it especially for using the Three Point Polar Alignment N.I.N.A plugin as the speed of the TPPA will be directly related to the speed of the plate solves.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#10

Post by chris_g »


Juno16 wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:41 pm
Well Chris, you picked one of the best (and entertaining) folks to explain just about anything N.I.N.A. (and about everything astrophotography) in Cuiv. He is very knowledgeable and my favorite Youtube channel. He is also responsible for me parting over 2k$ of cash for my camera (ASI 533 MC Pro), telescope (Sharpstar 61), and processing application (Pixinsight) purchases. I regret none of these purchases at all! In fact, Cuiv definitely steered me in the right direction!

N.I.N.A. is awesome and I am looking forward to hearing about your upcoming TPPA. I use it every imaging session, but I do have a view of Polaris, so I use it straight out of the box (defaults).
Not sure what you are using for a plate solving application or camera, but I use my ASI533 at a gain of 100 (unity) with a 3 second exposure with ASTAP. I've tried several plate solving apps and ASTAP is the fastest by a long shot (a few seconds). If you don't use ASTAP, please consider it especially for using the Three Point Polar Alignment N.I.N.A plugin as the speed of the TPPA will be directly related to the speed of the plate solves.
Thanks for the info on ASTAP, I'm currently using ASPS, it takes about 30 seconds to plate solve. It was the one app I could get to work, I need to figure out what I've got wrong with ASTAP, it won't solve anything for me, :lol:, I've got a couple of days before the skies are supposed to clear up again. I'm using a Canon 600D for imaging and a ZWO ASI120mm for guide. I suspect I should use the Canon for plate solve so there won't be any deviation due to the guide scope not being perfectly aligned with the scope.
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#11

Post by Juno16 »


chris_g wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:19 am

Thanks for the info on ASTAP, I'm currently using ASPS, it takes about 30 seconds to plate solve. It was the one app I could get to work, I need to figure out what I've got wrong with ASTAP, it won't solve anything for me, :lol:, I've got a couple of days before the skies are supposed to clear up again. I'm using a Canon 600D for imaging and a ZWO ASI120mm for guide. I suspect I should use the Canon for plate solve so there won't be any deviation due to the guide scope not being perfectly aligned with the scope.
Your main imaging camera should be used (the Canon).

ASPS works great for blind plate solves, but is way too slow for TPPA. It will work, but it will take forever.
I assume you downloaded ASTAP to the Program Files folder. You should also install the star database there also. I am using H18.
Make sure that N.I.N.A. points to that folder in Options-Plate Solving-Plate solver settings-ASTAP.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#12

Post by chris_g »


Juno16 wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:26 am
chris_g wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:19 am

Thanks for the info on ASTAP, I'm currently using ASPS, it takes about 30 seconds to plate solve. It was the one app I could get to work, I need to figure out what I've got wrong with ASTAP, it won't solve anything for me, :lol:, I've got a couple of days before the skies are supposed to clear up again. I'm using a Canon 600D for imaging and a ZWO ASI120mm for guide. I suspect I should use the Canon for plate solve so there won't be any deviation due to the guide scope not being perfectly aligned with the scope.
Your main imaging camera should be used (the Canon).

ASPS works great for blind plate solves, but is way too slow for TPPA. It will work, but it will take forever.
I assume you downloaded ASTAP to the Program Files folder. You should also install the star database there also. I am using H18.
Make sure that N.I.N.A. points to that folder in Options-Plate Solving-Plate solver settings-ASTAP.
I've got all that set up, it won't plate solve from the ASTAP interface with some images already taken that ASPS does. A couple of questions if you don't mind, is there some way to load an image into NINA that has already been taken so I can test the plate solving from it's interface? How do you get ASTAP to blind plate solve from the ASTAP interface?
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#13

Post by Juno16 »


chris_g wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:00 pm

I've got all that set up, it won't plate solve from the ASTAP interface with some images already taken that ASPS does. A couple of questions if you don't mind, is there some way to load an image into NINA that has already been taken so I can test the plate solving from it's interface? How do you get ASTAP to blind plate solve from the ASTAP interface?
All that I can find is to follow the instructions from the Cloudy Nights forum below.


"OldManSky, on 16 Sept 2019 - 1:59 PM, said:

tkottary is right. But...since you're using a DSLR, and (I assume) saving as a RAW file, it can be a bit more involved.

FITS files saved from dedicated astronomy cameras have the RA/DEC coordinates of the center of the image embedded in the header.

RAW files don't.

So if you load up one of your CR2 RAW files, you'll have to use the blind solver (assuming you've set one up in NINA) and that can take a while or sometimes fail.

Here's what I think is a better way: Go to the Sky Atlas in NINA. Search for the main target object in your images that you've already taken. Once you find it, select it and click (on the right of the target info) "Set for Framing Assistant." That will send the coordinates of the target to the Framing Assistant, and now it has coordinates that are at least in the ballpark of your image.

Once you're in Framing Assistant, NINA will already be trying to load the NASA Sky Survey image of your object -- click on the big "X" button near the top left to make it stop trying to do that.

Change the "Image Source" dropdown selector to "File." Then click on the "Load Image" button just below it (which used to be the big "X" that you already clicked). It will open a file selector dialog box. Find and select your RAW file, then click OK. NINA will load for a bit, then tell you that the image needs to be platesolved, and will use the Framing Assistant coordinates you already set (from the Sky Atlast) as the suggested coordinates, and ask if you want to use those. Click "Yes" (asking if reference coordinates should be taken).

It will then platesolve your image to find the exact center, size, and rotation, fill those into the Framing Assistant fields, then display your image."


I did try this with an old dslr image and it failed. Probably because I have my existing scope/camera set up in N.I.N.A. and not the scope/camera that I used when I shot the dslr image.

Give it a try and see how it goes. If it does fail ASTAP, then save the image files and we can try something with them.

Maybe someone else has more ideas???
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#14

Post by chris_g »


Now that I understand that FITS stores the RA/DEC coordinates, I can put the ZWO in the OTA and TPPA using it since it saves files in a FITS format. Then once I've got the PA completed put the ZWO back in the guide scope. Once the mount is polar aligned, I could also feasibly use the TPPA process to align my guide scope by making adjustments to the tube ring screws to align it so TPPA matches with the settings I got from the first time. That would align the guide scope with the OTA. I think the whole process would not take more than 10 to 15 minutes. If I needed to plate solve during the imaging session, I could use the ZWO since it's now aligned with the OTA.

What do you think?
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
User avatar
JayTee United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 2
Offline
Posts: 5619
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:23 am
4
Location: Idaho, USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#15

Post by JayTee »


Too much work. Your guide scope only needs to be in the ballpark.
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
∞ AP Scopes: #1: TPO 6" f/9 RC #2: ES 102 f/7 APO #3: ES 80mm f/6 APO
∞ G&G Scopes: #1: Meade 102mm f/7.8 #2: Bresser 102mm f/4.5
∞ Guide Scopes: 70 & 80mm fracs -- The El Cheapo Bros.
∞ Mounts: iOptron CEM70AG, SW EQ6, Celestron AVX, SLT & GT (Alt-Az), Meade DS2000
∞ Cameras: #1: ZWO ASI294MC Pro #2: 662MC #3: 120MC, Canon T3i, Orion SSAG, WYZE Cam3
∞ Binos: 10X50,11X70,15X70, 25X100
∞ EPs: ES 2": 21mm 100° & 30mm 82° Pentax XW: 7, 10, 14, & 20mm 70°

Searching the skies since 1966. "I never met a scope I didn't want to keep."

Image
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#16

Post by Juno16 »


JayTee wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:58 am Too much work. Your guide scope only needs to be in the ballpark.
Sure is. Way too much. Have you tried to solve a CR2 file from your dslr as described above?
Check to make sure that your correct parameters are entered in N.I.N.A. Options, camera and Telescope.
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#17

Post by chris_g »


Juno16 wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:18 am
JayTee wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:58 am Too much work. Your guide scope only needs to be in the ballpark.
Sure is. Way too much. Have you tried to solve a CR2 file from your dslr as described above?
Check to make sure that your correct parameters are entered in N.I.N.A. Options, camera and Telescope.
That was a thought process while I was at work. I was taking images in the general vicinity of Deneb with Deneb showing up in the frame on the right side of the image. When I put Deneb in the Sky Atlas nothing comes back when I clicked search. Made me do some research on Deneb, it's in the Cygnus constellation. So I selected the Egg Nebula and the image plate solved in about a second using ASTAP!!! Thank you, thank you!!! :text-thankyouyellow: :text-thankyoublue:

Unfortunately, the weather forecast is for clouds and rain for the next few days with some clear skies, maybe next week. :roll: Oh well, gives me some more time to learn more about NINA.
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
User avatar
Juno16 United States of America
Universal Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 8195
Joined: Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm
4
Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#18

Post by Juno16 »


Great news Chris!!!

Yeah, the N.I.N.A. star database is lacking in the Sky Atlas. Probably because stars are not used that often for targets.

I use Cartes du Ceil with N.I.N.A. to slew to a star for rough focusing or actually to the target for an initial autofocus. If you slew to a target in an application other than N.I.N.A. (Cartes du Ceil or Stellarium), you can click the Plate Solve play button (under Imaging) and N.I.N.A. will solve, center and sync the mount (make the selections on the Plate Solve window).

Very glad that you had success with ASTAP. I also used ASPA with APT before I went to N.I.N.A. It worked well enough, but when I set up N.I.N.A. I tried ASTAP and WOW!

Now, when the weather clears, you can try out TPPA. Good luck!
Jim

Scopes: Explore Scientific ED102 APO, Sharpstar 61 EDPH II APO, Samyang 135 F2 (still on the Nikon).
Mount: Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro with Rowan Belt Mod
Stuff: ASI EAF Focus Motor (x2), Orion 50mm Guide Scope, ZWO 30 mm Guide Scope, ASI 220mm min, ASI 120mm mini, Stellarview 0.8 FR/FF, Sharpstar 0.8 FR/FF, Mele Overloock 3C.
Camera/Filters/Software: ASI 533 mc pro, ASI 120mm mini, Orion SSAG, IDAS LPS D-1, Optolong L-Enhance, ZWO UV/IR Cut, N.I.N.A., Green Swamp Server, PHD2, Adobe Photoshop CC, Pixinsight.
Dog and best bud: Jack
Sky: Bortle 6-7
My Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/users/Juno16/
User avatar
SkyHiker United States of America
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2293
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:40 pm
4
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#19

Post by SkyHiker »


Aligning the guide scope with the OTA for plate solving is a one time task, once it's done and you don't touch it you should be good for future sessions. I've done it when using a DSLR and it worked OK. Just find a bright star, Polaris for instance when you start out, to align on. One advantage is the wide FOV that can make plate solving easier. I had a period when the 2600MC had a much harder time plate solving than my SSAG, those problems are now gone for who knows why. Ekos makes it easy to switch cameras for plate solving. Congrats with your progress.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
User avatar
chris_g United States of America
Orion Spur Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:30 am
3
Location: Louisiana, U.S.
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: N.I.N.A. Three Point Polar Alignment

#20

Post by chris_g »


SkyHiker wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:05 am Aligning the guide scope with the OTA for plate solving is a one time task, once it's done and you don't touch it you should be good for future sessions. I've done it when using a DSLR and it worked OK. Just find a bright star, Polaris for instance when you start out, to align on. One advantage is the wide FOV that can make plate solving easier. I had a period when the 2600MC had a much harder time plate solving than my SSAG, those problems are now gone for who knows why. Ekos makes it easy to switch cameras for plate solving. Congrats with your progress.
Thanks, I thought about polar alignment with the guide scope because I have to remove it from the OTA for storage and transport, I've only used it as a finder so far and it's worked great for that
Image Cam: Canon 6D (Ha mod), 600D (Stock), SVBony SV405CC
Image OTA: EvoStar ED80, WO Z73, C8-A XLT
Mount: EQ6-R Pro Pier, AZ-EQ5 Pro Pier
Guide OTA: Orion 60mm, WO 32mm, ZWO OAG, SV501P
Guide Cam: ZWO 120mm, 290mm mini
EAA OTA: Orion ST80
EAA Cam: SVBony SV705C
EP: Baader Hyperion Modular Set
Filters: L-Pro Canon EOS C, L-eNhance, L-Pro, Optolong Ha 7mm, Optolong Oiii 6.5mm, Optolong Sii 6.5mm, ES H-Beta
Session Control: Mini PC/Win11 Pro, APT 4.1, PHD2 2.6.10
Processing: PixInsight, DSS 4.2.6, Adobe PS CC, Astronomy Tools Action Set, Star Spikes Pro
Image
Image
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “AP equipment / AP Software & Apps”