ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

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ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#1

Post by TheButcher »


Hey all,

I looked around and have not found much info about the ZWO 294mm Pro. Anyway, I figure I would start one since I have questions and will probably have many more. I was gonna aim for the 2600mm, but it cost 1k more and I would of had to do a whole filter switch for even more $$$ and deal with backorder time.

So I saw that Agena had 3 left and ordered the 294mm- Pro last week and it should be arriving tomorrow, but won't be able to use it until I get back from Easter vacation. So I figure now is a good time to ask if anyone out there has it already or has knowledge of it.

I know it has two modes now for the pixels and MP size the standard 4.63um at 11mp (which is normal Bined at 2x2) and then can be used as 2.3 pixels at 47mp with a 1x1 Bined.

With that said, if I were to open up both modes in photoshop, would the 2.3 pixels be larger for overall image size? (as in for printing a poster) or the same size as the normal mode of 4.63um? (Basically, I am trying to figure out how much I can blow it up to make a poster.) I know the 2 modes can be very handy for different types of scopes. The normal mode 4.63 should be better for my RC8 and possibly the 2.3 better for my Refractor or if I get a wider field setup.

Now does anyone know what ADU I should aim for with LRGB in Bortle 7/8. With my 1600 I was aiming for around 1000-1400 depending upon the gain I used with LRGB and the Full well capacity is around 20k. The 294 has 66k, and with that said, should I be aiming for a higher ADU? I read somewhere people are seeing their ADUS in the 2000+ area?

Does anyone know anything about the offset? Is there a default for it that should be used, for example, the 1600 has a recommended and partially locked offset of 50 but that could be changed depending upon the program etc... But I stuck with offset 50 for all my images with the 1600 and happy with it. But how about the 294mm?

Thanks In Advanced :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#2

Post by JayTee »


Hi Brian,

I have the same camera but have not used it enough to definitively answer your questions. But my understanding (and it could be flawed) is that the pixel size determines your resolution and sensor size determines how large/small your image is.

I am watching this thread with interest as I'm poised to make a reentry to AP over the next month!

Cheers,
JT
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#3

Post by starfield »


Hi Brian, I got the same camera just before Xmas and have been shooting primarily in 2X2 mode. So far, for my narrowband images I've been shooting at gain 300 for NB and 121 gain for LRGB. For both settings I've been using an offset of 10 rather than the 30 that's set in the default driver. Both of the settings came from @jthommes (Jim) who has the same camera and is much more experienced that I am.

In terms of sub length from Bortle 7-8, I've been using the Sharpcap Brain (Beta Version) to get some rough idea for exposure lengths.

For NB, I've shot at 300s with good results. Probably could go higher but don't want to challenge the guiding gods or get interrupted by an Osprey (fixed rotor kind).

For LRGB, I'm finding that I'm shooting shorter subs than my 294mc and that the camera is more sensitive. So for LRGB I have been using anywhere between 60s to 180s. 120s for Lum seems to be a sweet-spot. I have yet to have a night where the LP is reduced enough to go above 180s.

Hope this adds a little insight.
Scopes: Esprit 100, 12.5" Telekit Dob
Camera: 294 MC Pro, 224 mc, 2600mm
Guiding: ZWO 290 mini on 120mm guide scope
Mounts: EQ6R-Pro, EQ Platform.
Filters: Optolong L-Pro & L-Enhance, Chroma 36mm LRGB, 5nm HA, 3nm OIII, 3nm SII.
Software: SharpCap, SGP, StarTools 1.7, Photoshop, Pixinsight
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#4

Post by TheButcher »


starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:11 am Hi Brian, I got the same camera just before Xmas and have been shooting primarily in 2X2 mode. So far, for my narrowband images I've been shooting at gain 300 for NB and 121 gain for LRGB. For both settings I've been using an offset of 10 rather than the 30 that's set in the default driver. Both of the settings came from @jthommes (Jim) who has the same camera and is much more experienced that I am.

In terms of sub length from Bortle 7-8, I've been using the Sharpcap Brain (Beta Version) to get some rough idea for exposure lengths.

For NB, I've shot at 300s with good results. Probably could go higher but don't want to challenge the guiding gods or get interrupted by an Osprey (fixed rotor kind).

For LRGB, I'm finding that I'm shooting shorter subs than my 294mc and that the camera is more sensitive. So for LRGB I have been using anywhere between 60s to 180s. 120s for Lum seems to be a sweet-spot. I have yet to have a night where the LP is reduced enough to go above 180s.

Hope this adds a little insight.
Thanks Starfield and JT, That helps a lot. At least I know the a ball park range. :)

Also when you do LRG, let's just say 60 seconds, how high does your ADU get? Does it go above 2000 or so?
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#5

Post by starfield »


TheButcher wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:37 am
starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:11 am Hi Brian, I got the same camera just before Xmas and have been shooting primarily in 2X2 mode. So far, for my narrowband images I've been shooting at gain 300 for NB and 121 gain for LRGB. For both settings I've been using an offset of 10 rather than the 30 that's set in the default driver. Both of the settings came from @jthommes (Jim) who has the same camera and is much more experienced that I am.

In terms of sub length from Bortle 7-8, I've been using the Sharpcap Brain (Beta Version) to get some rough idea for exposure lengths.

For NB, I've shot at 300s with good results. Probably could go higher but don't want to challenge the guiding gods or get interrupted by an Osprey (fixed rotor kind).

For LRGB, I'm finding that I'm shooting shorter subs than my 294mc and that the camera is more sensitive. So for LRGB I have been using anywhere between 60s to 180s. 120s for Lum seems to be a sweet-spot. I have yet to have a night where the LP is reduced enough to go above 180s.

Hope this adds a little insight.
Thanks Starfield and JT, That helps a lot. At least I know the a ball park range. :)

Also when you do LRG, let's just say 60 seconds, how high does your ADU get? Does it go above 2000 or so?
Brian, I just shot a set of 60 second subs (albeit in the full moon) to run some tests...... Can I pull the ADU levels from Fits liberator? Or PI? I've never looked for this info before. Tell me where to start the hunt and I can get it for you.
Scopes: Esprit 100, 12.5" Telekit Dob
Camera: 294 MC Pro, 224 mc, 2600mm
Guiding: ZWO 290 mini on 120mm guide scope
Mounts: EQ6R-Pro, EQ Platform.
Filters: Optolong L-Pro & L-Enhance, Chroma 36mm LRGB, 5nm HA, 3nm OIII, 3nm SII.
Software: SharpCap, SGP, StarTools 1.7, Photoshop, Pixinsight
The Death Star Observatory
Astro Photos:https://www.astrobin.com/users/starfield/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#6

Post by TheButcher »


starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:49 am
TheButcher wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:37 am
starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:11 am Hi Brian, I got the same camera just before Xmas and have been shooting primarily in 2X2 mode. So far, for my narrowband images I've been shooting at gain 300 for NB and 121 gain for LRGB. For both settings I've been using an offset of 10 rather than the 30 that's set in the default driver. Both of the settings came from @jthommes (Jim) who has the same camera and is much more experienced that I am.

In terms of sub length from Bortle 7-8, I've been using the Sharpcap Brain (Beta Version) to get some rough idea for exposure lengths.

For NB, I've shot at 300s with good results. Probably could go higher but don't want to challenge the guiding gods or get interrupted by an Osprey (fixed rotor kind).

For LRGB, I'm finding that I'm shooting shorter subs than my 294mc and that the camera is more sensitive. So for LRGB I have been using anywhere between 60s to 180s. 120s for Lum seems to be a sweet-spot. I have yet to have a night where the LP is reduced enough to go above 180s.

Hope this adds a little insight.
Thanks Starfield and JT, That helps a lot. At least I know the a ball park range. :)

Also when you do LRG, let's just say 60 seconds, how high does your ADU get? Does it go above 2000 or so?
Brian, I just shot a set of 60 second subs (albeit in the full moon) to run some tests...... Can I pull the ADU levels from Fits liberator? Or PI? I've never looked for this info before. Tell me where to start the hunt and I can get it for you.
Thanks Starfield, as far as the ADU, I usually get it from Sequence Generator Pro Fits Header. But it should show up somewhere in the FITs file either by liberator or PI (I never used PI, but guessing it could be shown there since it is advanced). If not, no worries :)

And Thanks Again :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#7

Post by starfield »


Ok, so if I read this right, I 'm seeing 9800ADU for 60sec Lum. 2576 for Red at 60 secs, 3876 for blue as examples.
Scopes: Esprit 100, 12.5" Telekit Dob
Camera: 294 MC Pro, 224 mc, 2600mm
Guiding: ZWO 290 mini on 120mm guide scope
Mounts: EQ6R-Pro, EQ Platform.
Filters: Optolong L-Pro & L-Enhance, Chroma 36mm LRGB, 5nm HA, 3nm OIII, 3nm SII.
Software: SharpCap, SGP, StarTools 1.7, Photoshop, Pixinsight
The Death Star Observatory
Astro Photos:https://www.astrobin.com/users/starfield/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#8

Post by TheButcher »


starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:17 am Ok, so if I read this right, I 'm seeing 9800ADU for 60sec Lum. 2576 for Red at 60 secs, 3876 for blue as examples.
Thanks, Starfield :)
Thats the ADU reading I was looking for. So it does give quite a bit higher ADU for those exposure times than the 1600.
I can't wait to try it out.

Thanks Again,
:)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#9

Post by STEVE333 »


starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:17 am Ok, so if I read this right, I 'm seeing 9800ADU for 60sec Lum. 2576 for Red at 60 secs, 3876 for blue as examples.

Those are much higher than the ASI1600MM. What Gain were you using?

Steve
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Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#10

Post by Star Dad »


I've not been happy with recent results with my ASI294MC-Pro. Because of this thread I did some research this morning and discovered that I had the gain turned waaaaaaay down at 35. It seems the camera's sweet spot of noise vs signal is at a gain of 125. Unity is 120. Some folks report excellent results as high as 200. I'm not seeing the dynamic colors at 35... and I am wondering just when I shifted to that figure. Can't wait now to get out and test the new reading. BTW - just about everything I read says to leave the offset set at default. A lot of people discussed the exposure length - and their thoughts on this camera were to go for shorter aka 2-3 min exposures rather than longer ones. The camera line is still relatively new so using others' experiences shyould be helpful until there's enough data for definitive answers.
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#11

Post by yobbo89 »


why is the 294 designed to operate at stock in 2x2 bin mode ?? i wounder what the qe is at 1x1bin since that stats says it is 90% qe at 2x2 ..

also , steve knows the numbers about adu and all the fancy stuff, i have no idea, i point and shoot and still make stunning images ..
that saying , with slightly incorrect settings you still should make good data and images, but every tweaked setting along the way will improve your images .
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#12

Post by TheButcher »


I just got the camera last night and tried a few indoor tests. I did a flat test and as others mentioned I have the HA and Sii pattern which can be calibrated out I heard. And a little bit on the Red filter and my Lum Flat was a little strange around the edges but not to bad. But Propper Flats should calibrate it out as well?

Also, I did a Binning test to see how much larger 1x1 was compared to 2x2 would be within photoshop and the 1x1 Binned scaled around 110"x78" DPI and the 2x2 Bined was about 58"x 39" at 72 DPI. So that is great that the 1x1 can be so large for prints so I can set the resolution over 150-200 DPI for a decent large poster. And the 2x2 could make around a 34"x24" poster.

Anyway, that is all I can do for testing until I get back after Easter :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

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Post by yobbo89 »


TheButcher wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:50 pm And a little bit on the Red filter and my Lum Flat was a little strange around the edges but not to bad. But Propper Flats should calibrate it out as well?

you can totaly remove vignetting in software , the least you have the easier it is . sometimes i don't even use flats unless i have dust motes ..
if it's small in the corners then you most likley have better success .
scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"truss tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob,meade 12'' f10 lx200 sct
cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7,asi 290 mm
mounts : eq6 pro/eq8/mesu 200 v2
filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, chroma 3nm ha,sii,oiii,nii,rgb,lowglow,uv/ir,Thousand Oaks Solar Filter,1.25'' #47 violet,pro planet 742 ir,pro planet 807 ir,pro planet 642 bp ir.
extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel,tele vue 2x barlow .

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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#14

Post by STEVE333 »


TheButcher wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:29 pm
starfield wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:17 am Ok, so if I read this right, I 'm seeing 9800ADU for 60sec Lum. 2576 for Red at 60 secs, 3876 for blue as examples.
Thanks, Starfield :)
Thats the ADU reading I was looking for. So it does give quite a bit higher ADU for those exposure times than the 1600.
I can't wait to try it out.

Thanks Again,
:)

If I understand correctly:
  • Starfield is using about unity gain for his RGB images (1 e-/ADU)
  • He is using 2x2 binning, so, to compare to 1x1 binning of the ASI1600MM measured ADU values must be divided by 4
  • The 294 has a 14-bit A/D but outputs 16-bit data, so, measured ADU values must be divided by 4
  • For Starfield's Red channel: [2576 x (1/4) - 50] x (1/4) / 60 = 2.5 e-/sec (an offset of 50 has been assumed)
This value is pretty similar to the value I get for my 1x1 binned ASI1600MM with a Red filter.

It will be interesting to see the images it produces.

Good luck!!

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#15

Post by starfield »


Hi, curious if anyone has been having challenges with their Lum and Red channels with this camera? I'm still in the process of troubleshooting and can't quite seem to get the artifacts to calibrate out. The Red channel seems to be under correcting while the Lum channel has a strange wave that's similar to what I see with my HA filter. My narrowband files have cleaned up nice with this camera but the LRGB seem to be a bit touchy. I can manage cleaning things up with DBE but would love to see if I can get things cleaned up in preprocessing.
Scopes: Esprit 100, 12.5" Telekit Dob
Camera: 294 MC Pro, 224 mc, 2600mm
Guiding: ZWO 290 mini on 120mm guide scope
Mounts: EQ6R-Pro, EQ Platform.
Filters: Optolong L-Pro & L-Enhance, Chroma 36mm LRGB, 5nm HA, 3nm OIII, 3nm SII.
Software: SharpCap, SGP, StarTools 1.7, Photoshop, Pixinsight
The Death Star Observatory
Astro Photos:https://www.astrobin.com/users/starfield/
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Re: ZWO 294mm Pro Questions

#16

Post by TheButcher »


starfield wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:30 am Hi, curious if anyone has been having challenges with their Lum and Red channels with this camera? I'm still in the process of troubleshooting and can't quite seem to get the artifacts to calibrate out. The Red channel seems to be under correcting while the Lum channel has a strange wave that's similar to what I see with my HA filter. My narrowband files have cleaned up nice with this camera but the LRGB seem to be a bit touchy. I can manage cleaning things up with DBE but would love to see if I can get things cleaned up in preprocessing.
I haven't had a chance really to image with the 294mm yet other then a widefield M100 & M5. One issue I was having the first night was platesolving in Sequence Generator Pro. It was not solving and I had the lum on 2-5 seconds and nothing worked. But it was in the same area. I tried the normal 2x2 and 3x3 with no luck. And for the main imaging I set the Filters to all 2x2 binned

I also notice my Red Flat has kind of the same as the HA and Sii, but have not tried it yet on Narrowband And the lum flat looks kind of normal but it looks like the edges are white instead of darkish. The frames though seemed to calibrate out. I only used lights and darks. But then again it was a lot of black space so it was hard to look to see if it fully calibrated out.

I probably won't get a chance to image until next week for more tests.
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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