Most affordable camera for guiding

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StarLord101
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Most affordable camera for guiding

#1

Post by StarLord101 »


I am interested in getting guiding going with a celestron guide scope on my AVX mount. Usually, when I see people talking about "cheap" guide cameras, they are still talking in the $150-300 range. While I do understand that there could be less accurate tracking, I'm looking to do the initial guiding as cheaply as possible, as my budget needs to go towards other things for now (covid life!). So one of the things that potentially interested me was the concept of using a fairly cheap or standard web cam. The internet is full of people talking about doing this or modifying them for this use. Most just talk about using a generic web cam they had kicking around. I found out the hard way that this isn't necessarily as cut and dried as they made it sound. When I've tested 3 different webcams, 2 older logitechs and a microsoft one (eyeball shaped design), I basically get a black screen even with adjusting the gain and settings. It's not able to make out the stars. I even tried an orion solar system planetary imager, which despite not being made for photographing deep sky objects, I figured had a better chance of picking up stars. Not so much. Black screen unless it was a bright object like a planet. So clearly, you can't just stick in anything. So I went looking what kind of webcam is needed for guide camera. Almost everything I found referenced very old, out of production or price inflated models (inflated probably from people seeking it for this purpose), or ones using the ccd chip instead of the cmos. So I went looking what are the necessary specs to be used a guide camera. I could not find anything I would even call a guideline or suggestion other than "needs to be sensitive". My question is this: What is the cheapest webcam I can use as a guidecam, even if it's less than ideal. AND/OR what specs do I need to target? I assume a smaller pixel size is better, but most webcams do not list the pixel size, just things like megapixels and resolution.
LXD75 GEM mount used with 90mm Meade Refractor, 102mm Celestron reflector, and a deforked Original Meade ETX Mak
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Ed217 United States of America
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#2

Post by Ed217 »


I have an AVX mount and a couple of Celestron scopes (8SE and C6N). I got a ZWO guide scope (30mm) and a ZWO ASI120mm-S camera. That combo works well for both guiding and polar alignment.
Scopes: Celestron Nexstar 8SE, Celestron C6N, WO Z61, WO GT71, iOptron RC6 .
Mounts: Celestron Nexstar, iOptron Sky Guider Pro, iOptron HEM27 w/iPolar
Cameras: Nikon D780, Nikon Zfc ,ZWO ASI224MC, ZWO ASI120MM-S, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, ZWO ASI485MC, ZWO ASI174MM, ASI662MC, ASI294MM, ASI2600MC Pro iPhone 14.
Tools: Raspberry PI4 with Stellarmate OS, Intel NUC Mini PC, Beelink MiniPCs.
Accessories: Celestron focus motor, ZWO EAF focusers, F6.3 field reducer, assorted eyepieces, 11" video monitor, polar scopes, iOptron iPolar
Computers: Dell desktops, MacOS MacMini, ASUS laptop, Intel NUC, Beelink MiniPD, PI, assorted software packages, iPhones, iPads
My AstroBin Images: https://www.astrobin.com/users/EdDixonImages/
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Graeme1858 Great Britain
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#3

Post by Graeme1858 »


Your problem will be that if your guide camera quality is poor then so will be your guiding! Someone will jump in here if there is a web cam that does the job but I think a mono astrocam will work better. I've got a QHY5ll mono for guiding. It was the cheapest I could find! It does the job.

https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=cont ... d=133&id=8

Regards

Graeme
______________________________________________
Celestron 9.25 f10 SCT, f6.3FR, CGX mount.
ASI1600MM Pro, ASI294MC Pro, ASI224MC
ZWO EFW, ZWO OAG, ASI220MM Mini.
APM 11x70 ED APO Binoculars.

https://www.averywayobservatory.co.uk/
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sdbodin United States of America
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#4

Post by sdbodin »


Ditto on QHY5L-II mono, should be about $150 new, I sold one for $100, so maybe on the used market about that. I use it both OAG and thru 80 and 100 guide scopes with good success.

Clear skies,
Steve
Scopes; Meade 16 LX200, AT80LE, plus bunch just sitting around gathering dust
Cameras; Atik 460ex mono, Zwo ASI1600MC-cool, QHY5L-II color and mono
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Gordon United States of America
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#5

Post by Gordon »


Part of the problem with webcams is that they are a 'color' camera. Your best bet is a Mono (monaural) camera. In addition to the QHY, ZWO makes one also: https://optcorp.com/products/zwo-asi120 ... kEQAvD_BwE
Gordon
Scopes: Explore Scientific ED80CF, Skywatcher 200 Quattro Imaging Newt, SeeStar S50 for EAA.
Mounts: Orion Atlas EQ-g mount & Skywatcher EQ5 Pro.
ZWO mini guider.
Image cameras: ZWO ASI1600 MM Cool, ZWO ASI533mc-Pro, ZWO ASI174mm-C (for use with my Quark chromosphere), ZWO ASI120MC
Filters: LRGB, Ha 7nm, O-III 7nm, S-II 7nm
Eyepieces: a few.
Primary software: Cartes du Ciel, N.I.N.A, StarTools V1.4.

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StarLord101
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#6

Post by StarLord101 »


I do understand that it may not be ideal and i do plan to do a proper upgrade down the line. But at this time, I'm just hoping to get basic guiding working, as there is other more pressing areas that need the budget. Both in life and this hobby. That's why I was asking what's the cheapest feasible camera/webcam/device even if it involves DIY , to be able to see something enough to guide. Or even, what are the specifications that are a factor that make or break a device for this use? Sure, I've heard "sensitive", but in what way? In what measurable spec that one could pay attention to? For example, I saw some dedicated guiding/imaging cameras only showing 1.2megapixel with a pixel size of 3.5 x 3.5. I've had other webcam that had smaller pixels and higher resolution that didn't quite work.
LXD75 GEM mount used with 90mm Meade Refractor, 102mm Celestron reflector, and a deforked Original Meade ETX Mak
Canon T1i stock
Various modified or 3d printed DIY enhancements or tweaks
Does a kids sunglass lens count as a fancy filter? Cause I have lots of those :)
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StarLord101
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#7

Post by StarLord101 »


Kind of interesting...I found an svbony guide scope and guide cam package for about $130 shipped (in canadian $). This is from the manufacturer page too, not some knockoff. Oddly though, they show an "actual image" showing what the view through the guidescope and camera is, and it shows stars pretty decently. However, I noted the camera is an SV105. To my knowledge, this is the entry model and although you wouldn't use it for deep space imaging, I assumed it wouldn't be good as a guide camera based on the specs. But again, the camera and the guidescope are sold together as a Guide package...which implies it can function as such. The sv205 is another step up with 8mp and a much higher resolution and pixel size of 1.75 x 1.75. But again, no mention of suitability for guiding just that it's "not for deep space imaging" , which I take to mean in terms of actually capturing the image because of the limited shutter time. Again, I'm looking for the cheapest setup possible to hold me over until I can get a proper setup. But that doesn't mean I want to forego any guiding at all.
LXD75 GEM mount used with 90mm Meade Refractor, 102mm Celestron reflector, and a deforked Original Meade ETX Mak
Canon T1i stock
Various modified or 3d printed DIY enhancements or tweaks
Does a kids sunglass lens count as a fancy filter? Cause I have lots of those :)
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ARock
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Re: Most affordable camera for guiding

#8

Post by ARock »


I use an AR0130 based mono security webcam. Sort of like this but mine had a box around of the board.
https://www.amazon.com/ELP-camera-modul ... B01N8YDF43

Took the lens out and attached a 1.25" to M12 adapter
https://www.amazon.com/Gosky-Adapter-Te ... B00ZKARBUC

Being a webcam, it is limited to 0.5 s max exposure, so I sometimes have to move the guidescope around a bit to get a bright enough star. Becuase, my mount is DIY I use a self-modified lin_guider software to guide, where I have hardwired the webcam exposure. It could be a pain to get the settings right with other guiding software, but I have seen others use it with PHD2.

If you are going to use a raspberry pi as a mount side computer, check if any guidecam you buy has drivers for ARM Linux based machines.
AR
Scopes: Zhumell Z8, Meade Adventure 80mm, Bushnell 1300x100 Goto Mak.
Mount: ES EXOS Nano EQ Mount, DIY Arduino+Stepper drives.
AP: 50mm guidescope, AR0130 based guidecam, Canon T3i, UHC filter.
EPs: ES82 18,11,6.7mm, Zhumell 30,9mm FJ Ortho 9mm, assorted plossls, Meade 2x S-F Barlow, DGM NPB filter.
Binos: Celestron Skymaster 15x70 (Albott tripod/monopod), Nikon Naturalist 7x35.
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