Thoughts on remote telescopes.

Discuss what equipment, AP Software, AP Apps you are using.
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Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#1

Post by AstroBee »


First, right off the bat, I hope I'm not opening a can of worms. That's not my intention at all. I'm just very curious.
And I'm not talking about personal remote observatories which I really, really want to do at some point. I'm talking about the "rental" or "subscription" services like SLOOH, iTelescope, etc...
I'd like to hear from two different perspectives since I have yet to partake.
1. The folks that don't even own a telescope and this is your only way to acquire data. (If there's anyone out there in this boat.)
2. The folks that also image at home with their own rigs and also use one of these services.

Here are a few questions I'd like feedback on.

How does the feeling compare to capturing these images yourself if you are in category 2?

Do you feel the cost is worth it for what you are able to obtain?

Do you feel that the quality of the images you are able to obtain are commensurate with the gear that is being used to capture that data?

Do you do it mainly because the weather and/or light pollution just plain stinks where you live?

Just trying to get a conversation going as there may be newbie members around here that are not even aware of these services.
Greg M.~ "Ad Astra per Aspera"
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#2

Post by Refractordude »


I may just try this after purchasing some wanted/needed accessories. Did not know such a service existed. Thanks much

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slooh

https://remoteastrophotography.com/2020 ... hip-review
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#3

Post by Astrovetteman »


Okay, here's my thoughts on your topic, since I now subscribe to two services, Deep Sky West and Telescope Live. Let me start by saying, there's NOTHING better than doing it ALL yourself. I know, that in the last 8 years that I've been seriously imaging, I've learned SO MUCH about how to solve problems...let's face it, astrophotography is a tedious process and then the "astrophotography gremlins" pop up and something goes wrong and you've got to think it out and then fix it and if and when you DO.....you get that warm and fuzzy feeling of accomplishment! The same goes for image processing, I can't believe how much I've learned and am still learning (in fact I just subscribed to Adam Block's Fundamentals of Pixinsight...and I've been using PI for 7 years!!), I guess it's kind of like an athlete who's never satisfied and always strives to get better.
So, like I said, I subscribe to two services, and I LOVE both of them! I will say, that when I posted my first image of an object that I didn't physically take the data, I felt like I was "cheating".....but I got over it, and here's why. First, the weather here in Indiana from the middle of December till the middle of March, in a word, SUCKS!!!! Since Thanksgiving, I've had my scopes out 7 times. I'm retired and I love to process images.....a person can only reprocess the same old data so many times. Second, I would never be able to get my equipment to the Southern Hemisphere and have a chance to image any of the beautiful celestial objects "down under" (there's some REALLY COOL stuff down there), so I investigated one service, liked it really well, and then subscribed to my other service. Granted, one is considerably more expensive than the other.....but you get what you pay for and I've spent more on one vacation than I'll spend for 2-3 years worth of these two services combined. So I guess the answer to the question "is it worth it?" is a resounding YES! Third, the quality of the equipment and the quality of the data is superb. Take a look at the full resolution image of NGC 104 that I posted yesterday. I did NO background extraction or noise reduction on that image AT ALL, of course it was taken in the Atacama Desert (Bortle 1) with a TOA-150/FLI ML16200 sitting on an A-P 1600GTO-AE mount (the mount costs more than my NP127is, ASI6200MM, and CGX-L combined), you have to be the judge of the quality, but I think it's pretty darn good....a lot better than I can get from my driveway and if the weather clears up I can process a Southern Hemisphere object while I'm imaging a Northern Hemisphere object at the same time...what could be better than that?? Rest assured, if it's clear and not 10 below zero, I've got my scopes out.
Hey, it's not for everyone, and some astrophotographers might look down on folks like me who "buy data". I look at it as an opportunity to get better at processing, process objects that I would NEVER be able to, and finally to just have FUN with this wonderful hobby!!
Sorry to go on and on, I hope I shed some light on my thoughts to your wonderful questions. If anyone wants more specific information, feel free to PM me!
Clear Skies (I hope)!!!
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#4

Post by pakarinen »


I’m researching these services, so I’ll follow this with interest. Since I have no AP gear (yet), I have three paths to choose from:

Skip AP - simplest, least costly, do I want to store tons of data and process it when others are posting amazing pics of tons of targets?

Do home AP - buy gear, crappy weather, bad LP, potentially nebby-nose neighbors, haul gear out to dark sites.

Try remote AP - limited investment if I decide to punt, not affected by Midwest weather, minimal LP, but possible hassles scheduling time.

It’s somewhat like when I had salt water aquariums. I could go to huge, public aquariums for much less effort and cost. But I acknowledge it isn’t the same experience as having my own.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#5

Post by yobbo89 »


i've never used a remote scope, but i think i would find home astrophotography in normal lp skys more rewarding after the hard work and fighting lp ,hardware problems ectt and finaly producing a very good image, i kind of see remote telescopes a bit of a detachment and more less personal but more so data only/processing experience , for those niche objects that you can't get data of ,comets, targets you can't image in your hemisphere or just are too washed out from lp (glaxies,reflection nebula ect) .

how would i say, i've spent thousands on my gear and live near the city,i rather just throw many more hours at a target which will cost me nothing extra but time.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#6

Post by BABOafrica »


Since I live on the equator, capturing both north and south is relatively easy (except at the polar extremes).

So I doubt I will ever try any of those services.

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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#7

Post by Gordon »


It's always another option for the hobby. Personally I've never used one, but my scope is pretty much automated and I remote control it so basically I would assume it's pretty much the same concept.

I'm sure I don't have near the same high quality equipment as the remote pay sites do, nor do I have the pristine sky. But I'm kind of a geek about having my own equipment to play with. I'm sure on the nights when it's cloudy here it would be a benefit to have those sources available.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#8

Post by pakarinen »


Another possible advantage is the difference in time zones, maybe more so if these services are "set it and forget it".
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#9

Post by pakarinen »


Addendum (couldn't edit my previous post):

I just requested a "one-click" shot of the Tarantula in RBG using telescope.live / Australia. I'll be emailed a pic in a day or so. Curious what it will look like, but I could have just done a Google image search. I guess the meat of the deal is that you can set up a custom observation and get the raw data if you buy a monthly plan.

TBD.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#10

Post by AstroBee »


Thanks, Tom for the detailed description.

Well, if nothing else, we've introduced RefractorDude to subscription/rental scopes. For folks reading along, just be very aware, there are big differences between services like SLOOH and iTelescope vs services like DeepSkyWest.

I'm still on the fence about the service personally. Of course, unlike Tom, I'm lucky enough to live in the desert SouthWest, only an hour from Bortle 1 skies and many clear nights. So it's harder for me to justify the other options. I can definitely see the benefits for someone living far from good viewing sites.

I think another reason I hesitate is that I'm not that great at all in image processing. I don't use PixInsight because I can't seem to wrap my brain around it. I'm currently using AstroPixelProcessor and get "ok" results. For me, it's more about the chase as Tom mentioned above. Getting that perfect alignment, guiding, etc, and then sorting through the inevitable gremlins is part of the fun for me. Of course, before Covid19, it was also about getting out in the dark with friends. Once you are up and running a sequence there's lots of time to sit around and shoot the breeze and compare rigs and techniques.
Greg M.~ "Ad Astra per Aspera"
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#11

Post by Jockinireland »


I had not seen this thread before I posted my telescope live heart and Soul - wish I had.

@AstroBee has asked some really great questions and @Astrovetteman has given a really good explanation of his thoughts.

Personally i'm really ambivalent about it. All the points Tom made resonate with me - I'll see Toms "7 since thanksgiving" and raise with "4 since December 1" We dont have thanksgiving in Ireland but our sky's suck equally! And the image I posted was with gear I dont have a chance of ever affording.

BUT, when I saw the final image I had made, and for me its pretty good and I was really happy with it, it just felt......incomplete. Like tom says, "cheating" but more than that. I just did not get the feeling of achievement I get when it is an image I have wrestled out of a poor sky, misbehaving kit and gear that I have scraped together to afford and spent hours trying to make play nicely together. @bobharmony put a nice analogy in my post about hunting or going to the butcher and I agree with him entirely. I'm a hunter too and I can get a pheasant from a game dealer, roast and serve it and it can be wonderful. But if the pheasant on the table was flushed by my spaniel after a 2 hour hike in sub zero temperatures and taken by a shot that i cant believe i made - then there is something more to the meal.

Is that image worth what it cost me - really difficult to say because its really difficult to put a monetary value on something like that. If it was then i'm not sure any of us would put the money we have into the hobby.

I think that the quality of the images in relation to the equipment used is a good question. my image had to be cropped to remove some lines which was anoying. The images are delivered already calibrated and I think that if i calibrated them myself i could have removed theose lines (Now I could have gone back and got uncalibrated frames and darks but could not really be bothered)

The ONLY reason i did it was because of my awful sky.

So, to echo Toms words, its not for everyone, and i do believe there will be a bit of snobbery from some, but i do think remote services have a place and provide a good service for me at least, it does not have the same "buzz" as doing it myself.



this is agreat thread and i l0ook forward to hearing others views.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#12

Post by AstroBee »


Thanks, @Jockinireland for your viewpoint. Many things to consider. Again, for me the only thing keeping me from doing this, besides cost, is that I am lucky to live under decent skies so I do get more opportunities to get out and image than many folks.
Greg M.~ "Ad Astra per Aspera"
Scopes: Celestron EdgeHD14", Explore Scientific ED152CF & ED127 APO's, StellarVue SV70T, Classic Orange-Tube C-8, Lunt 80mm Ha double-stack solar scope.
Mounts: Astro-Physics Mach One, iOptron CEM70EC Mount, iOptron ZEQ25 Mount.
Cameras: ZWO ASI2600mm Pro, ZWO 2600MC Pro, ZWO ASI1600mm
Filters: 36mm Chroma LRGB & 3nm Ha, OIII, SII, L-Pro, L-eXtreme
Eyepieces: 27mm TeleVue Panoptic, 4mm TeleVue Radian, Explore Scientific 82° 30mm, 6.7mm , Baader 13mm Hyperion, Explore Scientific 70° 10mm, 15mm, 20mm, Meade 8.8mm UWA
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#13

Post by ram »


I started my re-entry back into astronomy with SLOOH! (I watched Halley's comet when I was a kid in 1986 with a 3" refractor and did a lot of star gazing but gave up the hobby when I went off to college). I have the t-shirt and I enjoyed it and "collected" a lot of "snaps". I was happy. Then I went into EAA and star gazing, and I was happy. Then I started getting into AP with more gear and I enjoy it a LOT but the main benefit for me is sitting under the night sky for the hour or so it takes me to set up and collect my initial shots and make sure they're okay. Words aren't enough to experience how much of a benefit I get from sitting under the night sky on a warm night alone and quiet.

We're planning to buy property down south (found a great place in Jasper FL but unfortunately it is next to a graveyard which my wife is scared about) and I'll build a remote observatory there and have one here as well in Youngstown NY which will presumably automate things more BUT I still hope I never give up on just sitting under the night sky, watching the odd lights/meteors, etc. I sometimes get into this Zen state with the universe without the use of any mind altering substances. The smell, the sounds, etc. it's all an experience for me.

OTOH if you're not a visual person and you get to a state where you're doing AP from home without leaving your home, then I think the remote scopes are a better option since they have better scopes and they take a lot of the work out. There's no doubt also having great data makes for better images. But it's all about what you personally want: after all, most of aren't professional astronomers or astrophotographers. For me, it's like playing a game like Pokemon Go or music, or even doing the science I do (which is like a hobby even though it pays my salary), collecting the photons from start to finish something that makes me enjoy being alive.

--Ram
Tubes: Celestron 9.25" 235mm f/10 XLT EdgeHD SCT; Meade ETX 80mm f/5 achromat; Coronado SolarMax II 60mm f/6.6 Hα <0.7Å BF10 solar; Stellarvue 70mm f/6 triplet apochromat; Obsession UC18 457mm f/4.2 with Argo Navis & ServoCAT; Takahashi FS128 5" f/8.1 and FC100DF 4" f/7.4 fluorite doublet apochromats. Mounts: AVX; LXD75; Paramount MyT. Eyepieces: 2" Tele Vue Ethos 4.7/13/21mm, Paracorr, 2,4x Powermate; Stellarvue 0.8x, Takahashi 0.7x, 0.66x reducer/corrector. Cameras: ZWO ASI120MC-S; Lodestar X2c; X2m; Canon T7i; QHY163M; QHY247C; QHY294M-Pro. Filters: 1.25" Astrodon 5nm Ha, 3nm O3 and S2; Chroma LRGB.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#14

Post by Ed217 »


I’ve been an iTelescope user for some time now, I find it a very useful service. They have very high end gear and tend to be in very dark sites with very good seeing. The interface is quite good and they do give you some choices in how your images are captured. The cost seems reasonable to me.

I also do home imaging as well with my own gear. I have a few mounts and scopes and much enjoy that as well. While my interest in astronomy goes back many decades, my recent experience has been over the last year or two. The last year has been much different due to COVID as group sessions with the astro club at local sites have been mostly nonexistent.

Currently I am more constrained due to medical issues with the wife, who normally went with me for imaging sessions at a local area. That situation will improve over the coming months, but for now my choices are either the light polluted front porch or iTelescope.

Being an older guy now is also a factor here. Going out in very cold weather is not as easy as it was 30+ years ago. Remote sites are also an option for anyone whose travel/movement/physical aspects might be limited.
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#15

Post by Ed217 »


As reference, this is one I did last night from iTelescope.

viewtopic.php?p=137068#p137068
Scopes: Celestron Nexstar 8SE, Celestron C6N, WO Z61, WO GT71, iOptron RC6 .
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#16

Post by pakarinen »


I got this B&W One-click shot in my email today, along with this explanation:

Why is my image in black and white?

Color images are obtained taking several images using different color filters. We have an algorithm that combines these images automatically to create a color image. Sometimes, we might not be able to acquire all the images required to create a good color picture. In some other cases, our algorithm simply fails to create such color image. In these cases, we are only able provide to you a greyscale image, but, if at all possible, we might attempt to upload a color image later in the day.


I'm not impressed, but I haven't gone to the app yet to see what data is there.
tarantula.jpg
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I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
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Astrovetteman
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#17

Post by Astrovetteman »


pakarinen wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:16 pm I got this B&W One-click shot in my email today, along with this explanation:

Why is my image in black and white?

Color images are obtained taking several images using different color filters. We have an algorithm that combines these images automatically to create a color image. Sometimes, we might not be able to acquire all the images required to create a good color picture. In some other cases, our algorithm simply fails to create such color image. In these cases, we are only able provide to you a greyscale image, but, if at all possible, we might attempt to upload a color image later in the day.


I'm not impressed, but I haven't gone to the app yet to see what data is there.

Image
Okay, I got the same set of data today, that you got (I assume from Telescope Live). Now, my first question is, "do you subscribe to the Gold plan"? I think it's very reasonable at $50/month ( I spend more than that on lottery tickets). My second question is, "do you download all the raw data from the One-Click Observations and save each group to a particular folder for that object"? Here's what I've found. You really need to save multiple One-Click Observations of the object AND THEN PROCESS it. For example, I processed just one session of The Large Magellanic Cloud a little over a month ago...it was okay but could have been a lot better....reason being it was only 1/2 hour total exposure time. The last image of the Large Magellanic Cloud I posted was only 1 1/2 hours of data but the quality of the image was 100x better. What I do, is wait until I get at least 6 images of each filter, put them into WBPP and let it weight and integrate a Master of each particular filter and then process as usual. A lot of times there's clouds in particular subs, so if you use Pixinsight, just Blink all the various images and scrap the one's that aren't good. Also, the camera on the AUS-2 scope has a defect line in it, but you can use CosmeticCorrection (use defect list) to take that out of all your subs at the same time. Their data varies from scope to scope but it's generally pretty good, it just takes awhile to get enough data to produce a really good image. However, if you subscribe to the "Gold" plan you get unlimited One-Click Observations and all the Pro Data Sets. Personally, I like the stuff I get from the One-Click Observations, you just have to sign up for EVERY one and collect the data so that you've got a reasonable amount of TOT. Granted, I don't get as much data from Telescope Live as I do from DSW-Chile (average TOT 21-26 hours/target) but you can get some REALLY Fantastic images from Telescope Live at a VERY reasonable price! I'll post the two images of the Large Magellanic Cloud so you can compare:
Large Magellanic Cloud 1/2 hours data:
LMC_LRGB.xisf 1-7-21.jpg Downsized.jpg
Large Magellanic Cloud 1 1/2 hours data:
LMC_LRGB.jpg Sky Searchers.jpg
Hope that sheds some light on Remote processing! Any questions, just PM me!
CS!!
Tom
Here's a full resolution of the 1 1/2 hour image....zoom in and pan around: https://astrob.in/full/y0cgny/0/
Scopes:TeleVue NP127is, TeleVue TV-85, Celestron C8 EdgeHD
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Filters: Astrodon LRGB Gen2, Astrodon UV/IR Cut, Astrodon 3nmOIII, Astrodon 3nmSII, Baader 3.5nmHA, Baader 7nmHA
Software:MaximDL6, APT, Pixinsight, Photoshop CS5
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#18

Post by pakarinen »


Good info, thanks. I'm just doing the free trial right now, so I wasn't expecting much really. The pic I posted was straight from the email they sent me - no processing (by me). I'm trying to figure out if AP - remote or with my own gear - is a good path to take.
=============================================================================
I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
=============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#19

Post by Ed217 »


iTelescope.net is the service I use for remote imaging. Most of their scopes are filter based where you need multiple shots to get color. They have a few ( two I think) OSC cameras set up where you get color with just a single exposure.

Having used both there, I prefer the filter approach as it gives you LRGB images to work with. They have other filter options as well. The down side is it takes more imaging time, as you might need 5 minutes from each of R, R, G, and B.

This is a recent Image I got using LRGB.
NewCompositeFIT (2)-2.png
Scopes: Celestron Nexstar 8SE, Celestron C6N, WO Z61, WO GT71, iOptron RC6 .
Mounts: Celestron Nexstar, iOptron Sky Guider Pro, iOptron HEM27 w/iPolar
Cameras: Nikon D780, Nikon Zfc ,ZWO ASI224MC, ZWO ASI120MM-S, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, ZWO ASI485MC, ZWO ASI174MM, ASI662MC, ASI294MM, ASI2600MC Pro iPhone 14.
Tools: Raspberry PI4 with Stellarmate OS, Intel NUC Mini PC, Beelink MiniPCs.
Accessories: Celestron focus motor, ZWO EAF focusers, F6.3 field reducer, assorted eyepieces, 11" video monitor, polar scopes, iOptron iPolar
Computers: Dell desktops, MacOS MacMini, ASUS laptop, Intel NUC, Beelink MiniPD, PI, assorted software packages, iPhones, iPads
My AstroBin Images: https://www.astrobin.com/users/EdDixonImages/
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Re: Thoughts on remote telescopes.

#20

Post by pakarinen »


Okey dokey, I downloaded the RGB FITS files from T-Live of the Tarantula and requested an NGC open cluster from their list. My trial expires in a few days, so I gave it one more shot. Now I have to decide if I want to try processing them. Maybe I'll have a go at it tomorrow.

I also ran across Insight Obs which I might try. No freebies though- they charge for a test shot. Meh.

I'm thinking I might prefer straight $$ pricing per minute over credits or whatever. TBD.
=============================================================================
I drink tea, I read books, I look at stars when I'm not cursing clouds. It's what I do.
=============================================================================
AT50, AT72EDII, ST80, ST102; Scopetech Zero, AZ-GTi, AZ Pronto; Innorel RT90C, Oberwerk 5000; Orion Giantview 15x70s, Vortex 8x42s, Navy surplus 7x50s, Nikon 10x50s
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