Moving From a DSLR to a Dedicated Astrocamera

[Juno16]

I also wanted to add to the title “ in Light Pollution”.

I an strongly considering moving from my Nikon D5300 (ha mod) to a dedicated astro camera (OSC) sometime within the next six months.

I am sure that there are several folks here that have gone this route. Hopefully some of you can offer some advice.

I have really enjoy the Nikon. I had it ha modded by Lifepixel last November.

My conditions are:

Lots of lp. Not the worst, but challenging at mid Bortle 7. To the East is the worst lp since it is above the city lp dome.

Limited sky view. Best view to the East, but worst lp. Can see to about 50-55 degrees altitude in the West mostly.

Limited good skies for imaging. Sometimes a month or two between sessions. Usually, I can get out for a night once a week or two. Some of these nights are marginal. Almost never two nights in a row.
Bottom line here is that imaging time is precious.

Long summer with temperatures at night commonly in the 80F range. In the summer (and sometimes in the winter), lots of moisture in the air creating quite a glow from the neighborhood street lights. One is in my front yard. Luckily, they are still Na vapor.

So, the bottom line is I don’t get much sky time and the sky quality is not that great. Lots of heat.

So, my thoughts about moving to a dedicated astro camera:

With a dedicated Astro camera, I hope to get more target signal due to the much higher qe, so capture more data in a given amount of time. Maybe even 2x?

Less noise. The Nikon doesn’t seem very noisy, but I am hoping for a significant rise in s/n ratio per unit of time spent imaging.

Much easier to shoot and bank dark files.

Another consideration.I really like my fov with my ES ED102, aps-c DSLR, and 0.8 FF/FR. The ASI 533mc-pro seems like a fantastic camera, but would really cut the fov significantly. The ASI 294mc-pro looks good too with not as wide a fov as the aps-c, but close.

My current view with the ES ED102, D5300, and 0.8 FR.

My budget is around 1k$.

Are my expectations realistic? Any thought or recommendations?

Thank you!

[bobharmony]

Jim, I have gone through the thought process on this over the past year. My sky conditions and availability are similar to yours, but the temps are not as high year round here, and downright cold in the winter months. Like you I am using an aps-c DSLR, although mine is not modded.

For me, the biggest advantage of a dedicated camera would be the cooling capability to reduce the noise and simplify the collection of darks. I also would like to preserve the aps-c sensor size and would prefer OSC. My dream is the 071mc-pro. The last time I checked it was about 1.4k. It is beyond my reach at the moment, but could become a possibility after we get our retirement finances in order and move to a lower tax bracket.

Good luck on whichever way you decide to go, I will enjoy watching your journey.

Bob

[Juno16]

Thanks for responding Bob.

The low noise and darks collection are indeed worth the upgrade. I am hoping that the extra sensitivity of the osc astronomy camera might also help better utilize imaging efficiency.
I thought that Alex [mention]ic_1101[/mention] made a post on my last Iris image, that after moving from a modded D5300 to a 294, the sensitivity was so much higher. He said that really enabled him to capture quite a bit of dust surrounding the nebula.

I will have to look at the 071mc pro too. 1.4k is a lot of money!

Thanks again Bob!

[yobbo89]

Mono camera? You can do alot with just two filters, ha and oiii, Bi colour imaging and you can build a reasonable image in just a night depending on the target.

Or you can go with the osc route and a dou/tri band filter. Bottom line, I think you'll want something to deal with that bortle 7 lp, something much more drastic then a lp filter.

Cooling, you'll never look back.

[JayTee]

Jim,

Get the ZWO ASI294 MC Pro (I just bought one). It is has a TEC cooler for hot summer nights and the sensor is nearly the size of an APS-C sensor. And oh, BTW, it is $1,000. For your LP start thinking about the Duoband or Triband band filters. In two years when you are now a more advanced imager, you can step up to a Mono camera. Just my opinion, but it is a learned one.

Cheers,
JT

[Juno16]

Mono camera? You can do alot with just two filters, ha and oiii, Bi colour imaging and you can build a reasonable image in just a night depending on the target.

Or you can go with the osc route and a dou/tri band filter. Bottom line, I think you'll want something to deal with that bortle 7 lp, something much more drastic then a lp filter.

Cooling, you'll never look back.

I think that the cooling alone will be worth the upgrade. Still thinking osc, and the dou/tri band filter is an excellent idea that I really haven’t seriously entertained.

Thanks for responding yobbo! Your comments help me a lot.

[Juno16]

Jim,

Get the ZWO ASI294 MC Pro (I just bought one). It is has a TEC cooler for hot summer nights and the sensor is nearly the size of an APS-C sensor. And oh, BTW, it is $1,000. For your LP start thinking about the Duoband or Triband band filters. In two years when you are now a more advanced imager, you can step up to a Mono camera. Just my opinion, but it is a learned one.

Cheers,
JT

I appreciate your thoughts JT.

I remember that you recently bought the ASI 294 mc-pro. It is in the front of my choices right now.

You echoed yobbo’ s comments about the filter and I really like that approach dealing with the lp.

I know that dou/tri band filters do reduce incoming signal and really don’t want to go much longer than 300 second subs with the AVX. That’s why I haven’t considered a dou/tri band filter with the dslr. Hopefully the increased sensitivity with the Astro camera will allow me to capture good signal at 300 seconds or less with this type of filter.

As lousy as my weather is, I probably will never reach “advanced imager”. Just looking for a nice bump up in the right direction.

Thank you JT for sharing your thoughts and experience! I really value comments from you and other experienced imagers.

[Graeme1858]

My thoughts were similar to some of the above, along the lines of a few years of OSC then mono and filters when I retire.

As well as the advantages mentioned of the dedicated camera over the DSLR with the major step up in quality that I'm looking forward to is that I will be able to have a go at planetary imaging with ROI instead of swapping to my hopelessly over sampled GPCAM2 290C. Mars is coming up over the horizon!

Regards

Graeme

[Mac]

I know that dou/tri band filters do reduce incoming signal and really don’t want to go much longer than 300 second subs with the AVX. That’s why I haven’t considered a dou/tri band filter with the dslr. Hopefully the increased sensitivity with the Astro camera will allow me to capture good signal at 300 seconds or less with this type of filter.

You may have to image longer without the filter, such as the L-enhance, to get the nebulosity that you're looking for. It will also reduce the bright stars making the Ha stand out considerably more.

Last night I captured NGC6990 without any filters at 300 seconds and could barely see it in the sub. I then took the same shot with the L-enhance and it popped out. The same with the L-Pro but about 1/2 what the L-enhance did.

Most all of my captures are 300 seconds with the AVX but last night I went to 600 and had .7-.9 RMS, probably because the target was so high in the sky.

The L-enhance is a game changer, IMO, for nebula imaging in LP areas. Heck, even in a Bortle 3-4 in SC it was far better than no filter for capturing the HA/Oiii in the Veil.

I wish I kept the 300sec no filter sub for comparison.

[Juno16]

You may have to image longer without the filter, such as the L-enhance, to get the nebulosity that you're looking for. It will also reduce the bright stars making the Ha stand out considerably more.

Last night I captured NGC6990 without any filters at 300 seconds and could barely see it in the sub. I then took the same shot with the L-enhance and it popped out. The same with the L-Pro but about 1/2 what the L-enhance did.

Most all of my captures are 300 seconds with the AVX but last night I went to 600 and had .7-.9 RMS, probably because the target was so high in the sky.

The L-enhance is a game changer, IMO, for nebula imaging in LP areas. Heck, even in a Bortle 3-4 in SC it was far better than no filter for capturing the HA/Oiii in the Veil.

I wish I kept the 300sec no filter sub for comparison.

Great information Steve.

600 seconds, interesting. I tried a 600 second exposure once with my AVX and it seemed to handle it okay. I just would hate for a satellite to mess up a 10 minute exposure!

Did you have to increase exposure to 600 seconds because the filter dropped the histogram? Can the exposure be compensated with raising the camera gain without loosing much dynamic range?

Since I have a little time, I will plan on the camera first and continue to use the IDAS LPS D-1 filter (it seems to do well for me presently considering all of the sodium vapor lighting in my neighborhood) until I decide on a L-Enhance, Duo, or Triband filter.

I am so impressed by the ASI EAF, I will like to go with an ASI camera. Still pointing toward the 294 mainly because of the fov. I also like the huge well depth. The 533 is surely impressive, but I would like a bigger sensor.

Great information from everyone! This is just the feedback I was hoping for.

Again, thanks a bunch for the very valuable information!

[Mac]

600 seconds, interesting. I tried a 600 second exposure once with my AVX and it seemed to handle it okay. I just would hate for a satellite to mess up a 10 minute exposure!

Did you have to increase exposure to 600 seconds because the filter dropped the histogram? Can the exposure be compensated with raising the camera gain without loosing much dynamic range?

I increased exposure to 600 seconds just to get more nebulosity that I don't see in 300 sec. I leave the gain at 120 most of the time. I understand about messing up a 10minute sub, it's happened a few times but not because of a satellite, usually a guiding error or clouds. PixInsight can remove all of the satellites easily during ImageIntegration. I never see any in the final images.

The 533 sensor size is smaller at 3008x3008 but it also has ZERO amp glow but I am not sure if the 294MC has the same.

[Juno16]

The 533 sensor size is smaller at 3008x3008 but it also has ZERO amp glow but I am not sure if the 294MC has the same.

Probably not zero, but I know that ZWO addressed the 294 amp glow issue with more memory buffer.

From the ASI web site.

"DDR Memory Buffer
The ASI294MC Pro camera includes a 256MB DDR3 memory buffer to help improve data transfer reliability. Additionally, the use of a memory buffer minimizes amp-glow, which is caused by the slow transfer speeds when the camera is used with a USB 2.0 port".


Thanks for all of the information Steve!

[JayTee]

I can attest that on my new ASI294MC Pro there is zero (NO) amp glow. So it would make sense that ZWO has solved the 294MC Pro amp glow issue.

Cheers,
JT

[Juno16]

I can attest that on my new ASI294MC Pro there is zero (NO) amp glow. So it would make sense that ZWO has solved the 294MC Pro amp glow issue.

Cheers,
JT

Thanks for that JT!!!

Excellent!

[Mac]

I can attest that on my new ASI294MC Pro there is zero (NO) amp glow. So it would make sense that ZWO has solved the 294MC Pro amp glow issue.

Cheers,
JT

Thanks for that JT!!!

Excellent!

The 294MC looks like the better camera. I am not sure if it was available when I purchased the 533.

[JayTee]

The 294MC looks like the better camera. I am not sure if it was available when I purchased the 533.

It was when I purchased my 294 earlier this year (Feb). The 294MC Pro was released in Oct 2017 and the 533MC Pro was released just about 2 years later in Oct 2019! I compared them side by side and the 294 won out because of the bigger sensor, even though it was $200 more expensive at the time.

Cheers,
JT

[Greenman]

Jim,

Get the ZWO ASI294 MC Pro (I just bought one). It is has a TEC cooler for hot summer nights and the sensor is nearly the size of an APS-C sensor. And oh, BTW, it is $1,000. For your LP start thinking about the Duoband or Triband band filters. In two years when you are now a more advanced imager, you can step up to a Mono camera. Just mo opinion, but it is a learned one.

Cheers,
JT

I appreciate your thoughts JT.

I remember that you recently bought the ASI 294 mc-pro. It is in the front of my choices right now.

You echoed yobbo’ s comments about the filter and I really like that approach dealing with the lp.

I know that dou/tri band filters do reduce incoming signal and really don’t want to go much longer than 300 second subs with the AVX. That’s why I haven’t considered a dou/tri band filter with the dslr. Hopefully the increased sensitivity with the Astro camera will allow me to capture good signal at 300 seconds or less with this type of filter.

As lousy as my weather is, I probably will never reach “advanced imager”. Just looking for a nice bump up in the right direction.

Thank you JT for sharing your thoughts and experience! I really value comments from you and other experienced imagers.

Thanks for asking the question Jim this is a very useful thread, I’m just experiencing a long period of lousy skies and the UK weather will probably limit my enthusiasm for becoming an experienced imager. That is simply based on the ROI I currently see due to the limitations weather puts on my viewing. A step up to a 6” refractor is probably my final purchase. Solar could be interesting too, as the day’s currently are clearer than the nights.

Time, retirement and the missus, will tell.

[Juno16]

Thanks for asking the question Jim this is a very useful thread, I’m just experiencing a long period of lousy skies and the UK weather will probably limit my enthusiasm for becoming an experienced imager. That is simply based on the ROI I currently see due to the limitations weather puts on my viewing. A step up to a 6” refractor is probably my final purchase. Solar could be interesting too, as the day’s currently are clearer than the nights.

Time, retirement and the missus, will tell.

I surely know what you mean about the weather Tony.
Even when my weather is good, the skies are usually just fair. But, I really don’t plan to go anywhere but my backyard to image so that’s what it is.

I retired two years ago and started this AP hobby. I really just wanted to shoot some okay shots and play around with the hobby. I knew it would be challenging, both mentally and monetarily and I needed the mental challenge, but not so much the monetary part. I never planned to even mod the camera or use guiding.
Well, I guess that I am inching along down the “hole”, but really don’t plan to go much farther.

You can do some pretty cool imaging with your 8se, avx, and Canon!

Hopefully the weather will get better and you can get out and play. Seems like the more I get out, the more that I want to get out.

Well, maybe I really just want to get out!

Thanks for the post!

[Kerry C.]

I an strongly considering moving... to a dedicated astro camera (OSC) sometime within the next six months.

I am sure that there are several folks here that have gone this route. Hopefully some of you can offer some advice.




My budget is around 1k$.

Are my expectations realistic? Any thought or recommendations?

Thank you!

Jim,
I have been planning on doing this same move to a dedicated astro camera. Same budget, same timeline as you mentioned. I am retiring the end of January and want to have a camera before that happens. Many of the questions you have asked were the same ones I needed answers to also, so thanks for posting this.
I am leaning towards the ZOW ASI290 MC Pro.
Good luck on your search and future purchase. If I come across any promotions I will let you know.
Kerry

[Juno16]

Well, this was a very, very difficult decision!

Done now. I decided on the ASI 533 mc pro. Going to have to get over the smaller fov, but on the other hand, it opens up a new range of targets. I will also have to learn how to stitch images together because there are some large targets that I want to image.

The newer electronics was the major deciding factor.

I also added an Optolong l enhance. It is back ordered though and probably won't be available until month end.

Hopefully, I will have some type of first light soon. Since I am moving from my very comfortable zone with the dslr, I hope to have a chance to get out one night just to set things up and take some test images. I have also gotten very comfortable with the ASI focus motor, so I will have to do some testing with it to set up the parameters in APT.

I have really enjoyed the Nikon D5300 modded dlsr and will really miss the fov. I will hang on to it until I get things rolling comfortably with the new camera, then more than likely sell it. I hate to though, but I already have another dslr.

Thanks for all of the help that I have gotten on this thread.