Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

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Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#1

Post by TheButcher »


Hey all,

I have been dabbling with getting into Solar imaging with the H alpha and such especially since I've been trying to chase down ISS Solar transits and Doc says I need more Vitamin D. And, I'm sick of using the solar film and getting no detail really. So right now I am curious about what I would need and a good setup for my budget (Trying to keep it under $1200). I got most of the basic equipment I think, so I guess it comes down to which direction to get the H -Alpha images

Equipment I have so far
-Camera ZWO 174mm (On its way)
-Stellarvue SVX 80T-R @F6 and Orion ST80 (Would I need something different like an Achro with higher FL?) Also if I used my main imaging scope, the
Stellarvue SVX, Could Solar imaging damage my scopes optics?
-ZWO IR/UV cut 1.25"
-CEM70 mount

Also, I have been reading about the Daystar Quark and that seems most ideal unless an all-in-one solution?

Thanks in Advanced,
:)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#2

Post by lostone »


Watching this subject, I'm interested in this myself.
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most! :tease:

Scope: Explorer Scientific 127CF, Askar FR600, Planewave CDK 14""
Guide Scope & Camera: ASI 174, ZWO OAG-L
Camera: QHY 268 Mono, QHY 600 Mono
Mount: Planewave L-350, Skywatcher EQ8-Rh Pro, Losmandy G11
Accessories: Moonlite Nitecrawler WR30, WR35, Eagle 3&4 Pro, QHY CFW3/7 Filterwheel, QHY Polemaster,
Software: N.I.N.A., CdC, Planewave 3, Pixinsight
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#3

Post by Solsearcher »


Your question will not be easy answer , I have been into Ha solar imaging for about 10 years now and my advice would be to research and learn about how they work first . Ha solar scopes are made up of 3 filters 1 Energy rejection filter (ERF) 2 the Etalon and 3 the blocking filter .
60 mm is a good starting aperture for solar so to help explain the filters look at the Lunt 60mm or Coronado 60mm . You will see that there is a price range depending on the size of blocking filter you purchase . A larger blocking filter will increase the field of view for your image , so this is something to consider when getting into this . 60mm Ha scopes are a bit beyond your budget but can help explain how the modular design of solar scopes work .
So for either of these scopes if you want to increase the field you will be able to with a larger blocking filter . The other option you have with these scopes is double stacking , this brings out more surface detail . Of course these options come with a price but are all things to consider for imaging .
The Quark fits your budget but is a different in the way everything is built in , including a 4x barlow . What makes this different from modular scopes is the barlow , this is one reason they are recommended for use in shorter F/L scopes so something to consider is will sky support shooting at longer focal lengths . I have seen many jaw dropping images shot with a Quark but will say they were done by well seasoned solar imagers .
I had a Quark and it was a great option when my sky was clear and steady enough to use , unfortunately that was not very often so my modular scopes work better for my local conditions .
As you can see it is difficult for me to say you need this or that , a couple things I can suggest is to look at the options available out there and try to become familiar with what they mean , the second thing I could suggest would be if you could raise your budget a bit it could put you into some options you could expand on at a later time .
Good news is you do have the camera covered ! I will watch the thread and answer any questions you might have , hopefully others might chime in .
Solar scopes (Coronado Ha) 60mm double stack , 90mm double stack , 150mm single stack .
W/L scope Williams Optic Megrez 110mm / Lunt herschel wedge .
Night scope Celestron 9.25 XLT
Mounts HEQ6 , HEQ5 , Losmandy G8
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#4

Post by Lady Fraktor »


I agree with Solsearcher, for Ha I prefer dedicated solar telescopes as they provide a bit more versatility over using a Quark.
The Quark works well but can be a bit limiting with the 4.2x barlow.

I have always enjoyed using Coronado telescopes and the new version III uses external filters so you can use the telescope as a regular visual/ imaging setup as well.
I have not tried the Lunt but they are quite popular.

If you wish to continue to do white light viewing/ imaging I would recommend the Baader Herschel wedge, a very large step up in resolution and detail over films.
A regular achromat would work fine as you are only imaging at one wavelength.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#5

Post by lostone »


So what it is sounding like for myself would be to look into one of the 60 or 90mm double stack scopes. As always more research. I have several cameras in both mono and osc's When imaging would you recommend using a Mono camera? or would a OSC such as my ASI462MC?
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most! :tease:

Scope: Explorer Scientific 127CF, Askar FR600, Planewave CDK 14""
Guide Scope & Camera: ASI 174, ZWO OAG-L
Camera: QHY 268 Mono, QHY 600 Mono
Mount: Planewave L-350, Skywatcher EQ8-Rh Pro, Losmandy G11
Accessories: Moonlite Nitecrawler WR30, WR35, Eagle 3&4 Pro, QHY CFW3/7 Filterwheel, QHY Polemaster,
Software: N.I.N.A., CdC, Planewave 3, Pixinsight
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#6

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A single filter will get you to about 0.7um, the double will get you to 0.5um or slightly less.
Detail can be quite good with a single filter.

I would ask Solsearcher, Lowjibber, Gordon or Geoff about camera selection.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#7

Post by Solsearcher »


Its mono all the way with solar and the faster the better, you are only capturing 1 wavelength . You want the frames to be crisp and you should only need about 1000 frames of good video to produce an image . My cameras (DMK's) are quite dated now but are still working well someone else should be able to give you a better answer on current camera options .
Solar scopes (Coronado Ha) 60mm double stack , 90mm double stack , 150mm single stack .
W/L scope Williams Optic Megrez 110mm / Lunt herschel wedge .
Night scope Celestron 9.25 XLT
Mounts HEQ6 , HEQ5 , Losmandy G8
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#8

Post by TheButcher »


Solsearcher wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:50 pm Your question will not be easy answer , I have been into Ha solar imaging for about 10 years now and my advice would be to research and learn about how they work first . Ha solar scopes are made up of 3 filters 1 Energy rejection filter (ERF) 2 the Etalon and 3 the blocking filter .
60 mm is a good starting aperture for solar so to help explain the filters look at the Lunt 60mm or Coronado 60mm . You will see that there is a price range depending on the size of blocking filter you purchase . A larger blocking filter will increase the field of view for your image , so this is something to consider when getting into this . 60mm Ha scopes are a bit beyond your budget but can help explain how the modular design of solar scopes work .
So for either of these scopes if you want to increase the field you will be able to with a larger blocking filter . The other option you have with these scopes is double stacking , this brings out more surface detail . Of course these options come with a price but are all things to consider for imaging .
The Quark fits your budget but is a different in the way everything is built in , including a 4x barlow . What makes this different from modular scopes is the barlow , this is one reason they are recommended for use in shorter F/L scopes so something to consider is will sky support shooting at longer focal lengths . I have seen many jaw dropping images shot with a Quark but will say they were done by well seasoned solar imagers .
I had a Quark and it was a great option when my sky was clear and steady enough to use , unfortunately that was not very often so my modular scopes work better for my local conditions .
As you can see it is difficult for me to say you need this or that , a couple things I can suggest is to look at the options available out there and try to become familiar with what they mean , the second thing I could suggest would be if you could raise your budget a bit it could put you into some options you could expand on at a later time .
Good news is you do have the camera covered ! I will watch the thread and answer any questions you might have , hopefully others might chime in .

Lady Fraktor wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:09 pm I agree with Solsearcher, for Ha I prefer dedicated solar telescopes as they provide a bit more versatility over using a Quark.
The Quark works well but can be a bit limiting with the 4.2x barlow.

I have always enjoyed using Coronado telescopes and the new version III uses external filters so you can use the telescope as a regular visual/ imaging setup as well.
I have not tried the Lunt but they are quite popular.

If you wish to continue to do white light viewing/ imaging I would recommend the Baader Herschel wedge, a very large step up in resolution and detail over films.
A regular achromat would work fine as you are only imaging at one wavelength.
Thanks for the very informative response Solsearcher. As far as my budget, I can increase it to around 2K + a few hundred more or so and I see what you mean about that 4x barlow and seeing with the Quark, My skies have rarely good seeing like most. I looked at the Lunt and Coronado 60mm. As far as choosing one, I guess it will come down to what is available in today's market. I will also look for Double stack. I will be researching solar imaging like you said and different scopes and post them here and see if they fit the bill. Also what about barlows, do you need a special one, or would a regular one work or do you even need one or are they built in?

Thanks, Lady Fraktor, and about that Cornado version III, how much would that be? I see one for around $2500 USD called Coronado solarmax III 70mm, would that be the one you are talking about?
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#9

Post by Solsearcher »


As far as barlow's go nothing special is required . Lunt and Coronado both offer very good products and the discussion is not about comparing the two so if selecting either of these scopes for imaging I would put any extra money into the largest blocking filter I could afford to have the largest field of view . Double stacking can be expensive but can easily be added later . Both the Lunt and Coronado are good options for imaging and both can be double stacked later on if you decide you want it . Ha solar is very addictive and can get expensive , the good thing is that it can offer an affordable path . You should be able to set yourself up for imaging with a single stack 0.7A 60mm scope within your budget . 60mm in either brand can be a an excellent and versatile imaging tool and both are user friendly . Double stacking knocks down the light and slows down the frame rate and can be more challenging so for starting out I would recommend single stack first because they are cheaper and second it will be easier to learn with .
Hope this is helpful
Solar scopes (Coronado Ha) 60mm double stack , 90mm double stack , 150mm single stack .
W/L scope Williams Optic Megrez 110mm / Lunt herschel wedge .
Night scope Celestron 9.25 XLT
Mounts HEQ6 , HEQ5 , Losmandy G8
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#10

Post by TheButcher »


Solsearcher wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:11 am As far as barlow's go nothing special is required . Lunt and Coronado both offer very good products and the discussion is not about comparing the two so if selecting either of these scopes for imaging I would put any extra money into the largest blocking filter I could afford to have the largest field of view . Double stacking can be expensive but can easily be added later . Both the Lunt and Coronado are good options for imaging and both can be double stacked later on if you decide you want it . Ha solar is very addictive and can get expensive , the good thing is that it can offer an affordable path . You should be able to set yourself up for imaging with a single stack 0.7A 60mm scope within your budget . 60mm in either brand can be a an excellent and versatile imaging tool and both are user friendly . Double stacking knocks down the light and slows down the frame rate and can be more challenging so for starting out I would recommend single stack first because they are cheaper and second it will be easier to learn with .
Hope this is helpful
I see now, also I have been reading about the elements and such and it's pretty interesting, I never knew there would be so many variables.
As far as Largest blocking filter and the 60mm. I looked at this example, would this suit my needs as a beginner and leave room for advancement?
https://luntsolarsystems.com/shop/solar ... rp-focuser Also is 12mm the largest blocking filter that I could get with those 60mm?

Also another question. How do you get the color to look like that with Mono, do you do it in Post-processing in Photoshop, or use any RGB filters? I know with the baader white film, I had to add the color after in PS.

Sorry for so many questions

And, Thanks again Solsearcher and Lady Fraktror,
:)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#11

Post by Solsearcher »


Yes the Lunt 60 with 12mm blocking filter would would easily suit any solar imager and it can be double stacked so when you crave more surface detail you will have a way to deliver it . The only advantage I see here in the Coronado 60 would be the 15mm blocking filter option , it shouldn't be a deciding factor , the Lunt B-12 will fit the full disk and you will be able to use barlows to get closer from there .
The short answer to your color question is we capture in mono and add the color usually in Photoshop or something similar , the goal is to make the color appear as it looks visually in Ha
Don't be sorry for questions I had lots myself back when I jumped into this !
Solar scopes (Coronado Ha) 60mm double stack , 90mm double stack , 150mm single stack .
W/L scope Williams Optic Megrez 110mm / Lunt herschel wedge .
Night scope Celestron 9.25 XLT
Mounts HEQ6 , HEQ5 , Losmandy G8
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#12

Post by TheButcher »


Solsearcher wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:54 am Yes the Lunt 60 with 12mm blocking filter would would easily suit any solar imager and it can be double stacked so when you crave more surface detail you will have a way to deliver it . The only advantage I see here in the Coronado 60 would be the 15mm blocking filter option , it shouldn't be a deciding factor , the Lunt B-12 will fit the full disk and you will be able to use barlows to get closer from there .
The short answer to your color question is we capture in mono and add the color usually in Photoshop or something similar , the goal is to make the color appear as it looks visually in Ha
Don't be sorry for questions I had lots myself back when I jumped into this !
Gotcha, I think I understand now. So either of them would be a good start, then I can add the double-stack after.

Thanks Again for everything :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#13

Post by Solsearcher »


lostone wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:16 pm I have several cameras in both mono and osc's When imaging would you recommend using a Mono camera? or would a OSC such as my ASI462MC?
The reason mono cameras are best for Ha solar is that the scope is only delivering 1 wave length to the camera . In a color camera only the red dedicated pixels in the array will contribute to the image , the green and blue will not react or contribute to the capture so you will loose 2/3 of the pixels in the array . When you use a mono camera all of the pixels contribute and will add more detail to the capture .
Solar scopes (Coronado Ha) 60mm double stack , 90mm double stack , 150mm single stack .
W/L scope Williams Optic Megrez 110mm / Lunt herschel wedge .
Night scope Celestron 9.25 XLT
Mounts HEQ6 , HEQ5 , Losmandy G8
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#14

Post by Lady Fraktor »


A 80mm f/8 will be versatile but a ED is not needed unless you are wanting to use the telescope for regular imaging as well.
Also the 12mm blocking filter would be prefered but if the 6mm meets budget it will still work fine.
The 12mm filter is the largest that Lunt offers with the 60mm.
Better to start with a single filter to get used to how the telescope works, afterwards a second filter can be added. Even if the money tree was in full bloom I would still say start with the single.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#15

Post by Chich »


I have a Lunt 50 and a 100. The 50 was very popular when it first appeared and does give very pleasing visuals but can be a problem to get working with some cameras as it does not have enough travel with the stock focuser. I don't know if they ever addressed this. Having said that, there are some who have managed to get some nice shots with the right set up. I thought I should mention the issue in case you happened across one, you will have to do some searching to find which cameras work.
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#16

Post by Chich »


The The Astrophotography Podcast just put out Episode 39 "Solar Imaging with special guest Gary Palmer". Might be of interest.
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

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Post by TheButcher »


Chich wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:25 am The The Astrophotography Podcast just put out Episode 39 "Solar Imaging with special guest Gary Palmer". Might be of interest.
Thanks Chich,

I just listened to it. Pretty interesting and a good intro to solar imaging. I was hoping he would of talked about the dedicated Solar scopes, but oh well :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#18

Post by TheButcher »


I was gonna go with the dedicated 60mm Lunt, I even signed up for the backorder. But I came across a Nice Quark Chromo for around $900 shipped and it is pretty new. I figure I can't go wrong since there is a wait for the dedicated and I can always sell it and put it towards a dedicated solar when I get more funds.

Also, does anyone know what kind of Diagonal you need? or if you even need one and use a 2" extension tube instead? I plan on using it on my 80mm SVX or even the Orion 80ST and with that said Do I need to use a UV/IR filter?

And Thanks Again for the help everyone :)
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#19

Post by Lady Fraktor »


You can use any diagonal but will need to place a IR/ UV filter onto the nosepiece of the diagonal.
Extensions may or may not be required.

If you go above 80mm objective size you will need a ERF filter as well but at 80mm and smaller it is not really a issue.
See Far Sticks: Antares Elita 103/1575, AOM FLT 105/1000, Bresser BV 127/1200, Nočný stopár 152/1200, Vyrobené doma 70/700, Stellarvue NHNG DX 80/552, TAL RS100/1000, Vixen SD115s/885
EQ: TAL MT-1, Vixen SXP, AXJ, AXD
Az/Alt: AYO Digi II/ Argo Navis, Stellarvue M2C/ Argo Navis
Tripods: Berlebach Planet (2), Uni 28 Astro, Report 372, TAL factory maple, Vixen ASG-CB90, Vixen AXD-TR102
Diagonals: Astro-Physics, Baader Amici, Baader Herschel, iStar Blue, Stellarvue DX, Takahashi prism, TAL, Vixen flip mirror
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Re: Beginer Questions about Solar Imaging in H Alpha

#20

Post by TheButcher »


Lady Fraktor wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:29 pm You can use any diagonal but will need to place a IR/ UV filter onto the nosepiece of the diagonal.
Extensions may or may not be required.

If you go above 80mm objective size you will need a ERF filter as well but at 80mm and smaller it is not really a issue.
Thanks Lady Fraktor, :)

I do have a ZWO 1.25" IR/UV cut filter so now I just need to pick up a 1.25" diagonal that has threads for the filter. Any preference for better performance? For example 99% Dielectric, or Prism etc...
Telescopes:Apertura AD12 Dob + Rings for EQ mode Mounts: iOptron CEM70 w/ Tri-Pier Barlows:GSO 2x Shorty Focuser: Rigel nStep Cameras: ZWO174mm

See All of my Images at: https://astronebula.com/slide-show/
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