MLT Noise Reduction Question

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Baskevo
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MLT Noise Reduction Question

#1

Post by Baskevo »


Hi y'all,

During these last few days it has been ridiculously cloudy, and I have been going through some old data with pixinsight. I had a question about noise reduction.

I have seen MultiscaleLinearTransform used a couple different ways, but I wanted to ask about applying it to luminance then chrominance vs. applying it to RGB/k. Which one do you all use for your DSLR images (I'm going through old DSLR data) or which way have you seen works best, if you've experimented? Is there a time when I would want to do it one way vs. another?

I would experiment myself but I don't think I am experienced enough to be able to tell if one is better than the other. I appreciate any insight you all have! Light pollution sucks :/
-James W.

Telescope: Explore Scientific 80mm FCD100 Triplet APO Refractor
Mount: EQ6-R Pro
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600mm Pro (Cooled) | Canon DSLR EOS T7i
Auto-guiding: ZWO ASI120mm-Mini + Astromania 50mm Guidescope

Filters: ZWO 31mm Ha/Oiii/Sii 7nm + LRGB | Orion 2" Skyglow Filter
Accessories: Explore Scientific 2" Field Flattener, ZWO EFW 8 Position
Software: APT, SharpCap Pro, PHD2, CPWI | PixInsight, DeepSkyStacker, Photoshop

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/186194203@N06/18B629
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Stuart United States of America
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#2

Post by Stuart »


Hi James,
This isn't going to be very helpful to you. It's all a matter of "what works for you". Best thing to do is to do a preview on one part of your image and then apply different settings to it to see what works. That's how I do it. Every image is different.
Personal equipment: TEC 140 F7 on Astro-Physics Mach 1 mount. Camera QSI 683ws7. Guide with Vario guiding scope
Shared equipment through Star Shadows Remote Observatory through PROMPT/ CTIO/Chile 16" RCOS 16803 chip
Shared equipment through San Diego Astronomy Society 14" RC with 16803 chip on a paramount
Software (for my stuff) PemPRO, SGP, PHD, Focus Boss, ASCOM, and Pixinsight on the other end.
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#3

Post by Baskevo »


That makes sense! Thanks Stuart :)
-James W.

Telescope: Explore Scientific 80mm FCD100 Triplet APO Refractor
Mount: EQ6-R Pro
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600mm Pro (Cooled) | Canon DSLR EOS T7i
Auto-guiding: ZWO ASI120mm-Mini + Astromania 50mm Guidescope

Filters: ZWO 31mm Ha/Oiii/Sii 7nm + LRGB | Orion 2" Skyglow Filter
Accessories: Explore Scientific 2" Field Flattener, ZWO EFW 8 Position
Software: APT, SharpCap Pro, PHD2, CPWI | PixInsight, DeepSkyStacker, Photoshop

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/186194203@N06/18B629
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#4

Post by STEVE333 »


Hi James - I too have a DSLR. I do my noise reduction both in the Linear phase (before stretching) and then after stretching.

First, after removing any LP and doing color correction I use MLT to do noise reduction of the RGB image. The picture below shows my typical MLT settings.

Image.

I use the Linear Mask to protect the "high-signal" areas. If this noise reduction leaves the noise too "blotchy" I reduce the Amount of the individual Layers to achieve acceptable results. The odd thing I've found is that the higher the noise the less noise reduction i can use before "blothchy" or "plastic" noise will be present in the final image.

Second, after stretching the image I do an additional noise reduction with TGVDenoise with the high-signal areas protected with a Luminance mask. My typical settings for the Lightness and Chrominance tabs are shown in the pictures below.

Image

Image

I normally only have to adjust the Strength in the Lightness tab to get acceptable results.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#5

Post by Baskevo »


STEVE333 wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:03 am Hi James - I too have a DSLR. I do my noise reduction both in the Linear phase (before stretching) and then after stretching.

First, after removing any LP and doing color correction I use MLT to do noise reduction of the RGB image. The picture below shows my typical MLT settings.

Image.

I use the Linear Mask to protect the "high-signal" areas. If this noise reduction leaves the noise too "blotchy" I reduce the Amount of the individual Layers to achieve acceptable results. The odd thing I've found is that the higher the noise the less noise reduction i can use before "blothchy" or "plastic" noise will be present in the final image.

Second, after stretching the image I do an additional noise reduction with TGVDenoise with the high-signal areas protected with a Luminance mask. My typical settings for the Lightness and Chrominance tabs are shown in the pictures below.

Image

Image

I normally only have to adjust the Strength in the Lightness tab to get acceptable results.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Steve
Oh wow that's much more noise reduction than I do with both MLT and TGVDenoise! I will try those settings. Thank you for sharing Steve!
-James W.

Telescope: Explore Scientific 80mm FCD100 Triplet APO Refractor
Mount: EQ6-R Pro
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600mm Pro (Cooled) | Canon DSLR EOS T7i
Auto-guiding: ZWO ASI120mm-Mini + Astromania 50mm Guidescope

Filters: ZWO 31mm Ha/Oiii/Sii 7nm + LRGB | Orion 2" Skyglow Filter
Accessories: Explore Scientific 2" Field Flattener, ZWO EFW 8 Position
Software: APT, SharpCap Pro, PHD2, CPWI | PixInsight, DeepSkyStacker, Photoshop

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/186194203@N06/18B629
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#6

Post by STEVE333 »


You're welcome James.

In case you aren't familiar with the Linear Mask, when using the MLT process remember to open the Linear Mask section, check the Preview mask box and the round Real-Time Preview button, then adjust the Amplification slider to protect the brighter nebulosity.

Best of success.

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#7

Post by Stuart »


It's important when you do the linear mask to turn off the STF for the image.
Personal equipment: TEC 140 F7 on Astro-Physics Mach 1 mount. Camera QSI 683ws7. Guide with Vario guiding scope
Shared equipment through Star Shadows Remote Observatory through PROMPT/ CTIO/Chile 16" RCOS 16803 chip
Shared equipment through San Diego Astronomy Society 14" RC with 16803 chip on a paramount
Software (for my stuff) PemPRO, SGP, PHD, Focus Boss, ASCOM, and Pixinsight on the other end.
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#8

Post by STEVE333 »


Stuart wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:43 pm It's important when you do the linear mask to turn off the STF for the image.
Thanks for the tip Stuart. Al the times I've used this process and never knew that the STF had to be removed.

Thank you, thank you thank you!!!!

Steve
Steve King: Light Pollution (Bortle 5)
Telescope + Mount + Guiding: W.O. Star71-ii + iOptron CEM40 EC + Orion Magnificent Mini AutoGuider
Camera: ASI 1600MM Pro + EFW Filter Wheel + Chroma 3nm Siii, Ha, Oiii + ZWO LRGB Filters
Software: PHD2; APT; PixInsight ***** My AP website: www.steveking.pictures
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#9

Post by Baskevo »


I remember learning about the linear mask from IP4AP.com, but I have been going through lightvortexastronomy.com's tutorial because it is more straight through than IP4AP, and easier to follow the steps... IP4AP is a little outdated too, so I haven't really done a deep dive yet. I've just been using Lum. masks with MLT. I will try it with the linear mask next time and get a little more aggressive! Thanks for the tips guys :)
-James W.

Telescope: Explore Scientific 80mm FCD100 Triplet APO Refractor
Mount: EQ6-R Pro
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600mm Pro (Cooled) | Canon DSLR EOS T7i
Auto-guiding: ZWO ASI120mm-Mini + Astromania 50mm Guidescope

Filters: ZWO 31mm Ha/Oiii/Sii 7nm + LRGB | Orion 2" Skyglow Filter
Accessories: Explore Scientific 2" Field Flattener, ZWO EFW 8 Position
Software: APT, SharpCap Pro, PHD2, CPWI | PixInsight, DeepSkyStacker, Photoshop

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/186194203@N06/18B629
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#10

Post by Stuart »


Hi James,
ip4ap is actually not outdated. They are doing new videos as Pixinsight is updated. In fact he just produced one today. Warren may have changed his techniques a little bit since they first came out, but the basics are still sound. I recommend it highly

I also recommend Adam Block's Fundamentals tutorials. He takes a very different approach than Warren and elects to do a deep dive and teach you about each process in depth.

Kayron's tutorials, of course, have the advantage in that their free! :-)

Stu
Personal equipment: TEC 140 F7 on Astro-Physics Mach 1 mount. Camera QSI 683ws7. Guide with Vario guiding scope
Shared equipment through Star Shadows Remote Observatory through PROMPT/ CTIO/Chile 16" RCOS 16803 chip
Shared equipment through San Diego Astronomy Society 14" RC with 16803 chip on a paramount
Software (for my stuff) PemPRO, SGP, PHD, Focus Boss, ASCOM, and Pixinsight on the other end.
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#11

Post by Baskevo »


Stuart wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:56 am Hi James,
ip4ap is actually not outdated. They are doing new videos as Pixinsight is updated. In fact he just produced one today. Warren may have changed his techniques a little bit since they first came out, but the basics are still sound. I recommend it highly

I also recommend Adam Block's Fundamentals tutorials. He takes a very different approach than Warren and elects to do a deep dive and teach you about each process in depth.

Kayron's tutorials, of course, have the advantage in that their free! :-)

Stu
Oh I didn't know that, maybe it is the layout of his website then? I have been going through the primer videos, and those don't include a lot of newer functions like MLT for example. I did not know he posts new videos.
I will look into Adam Block's tutorials because the IP4AP fundamental tutorials does not have a step-by-step guide, and I find myself shifting through the videos, which is the opposite of Kayron's and how I learn the best :)

I'm going to keep using IP4AP because it is cheap and I am sure it will come in handy with processing mono images (if the clouds ever freakin clear...) I will see if I can find the new videos!
-James W.

Telescope: Explore Scientific 80mm FCD100 Triplet APO Refractor
Mount: EQ6-R Pro
Cameras: ZWO ASI1600mm Pro (Cooled) | Canon DSLR EOS T7i
Auto-guiding: ZWO ASI120mm-Mini + Astromania 50mm Guidescope

Filters: ZWO 31mm Ha/Oiii/Sii 7nm + LRGB | Orion 2" Skyglow Filter
Accessories: Explore Scientific 2" Field Flattener, ZWO EFW 8 Position
Software: APT, SharpCap Pro, PHD2, CPWI | PixInsight, DeepSkyStacker, Photoshop

Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/gp/186194203@N06/18B629
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Re: MLT Noise Reduction Question

#12

Post by Stuart »


Hi James,
Here is a free video series by Warren
https://www.easypixinsight.com/

Here are the new videos by Warren, including MLT and work flows
https://www.ip4ap.com/Subscriber/PixIns ... loaded.htm

Here are Adam Block's tutorials who also goes through individual processes and work flows
https://www.adamblockstudios.com/catego ... ndamentals

Stu
Personal equipment: TEC 140 F7 on Astro-Physics Mach 1 mount. Camera QSI 683ws7. Guide with Vario guiding scope
Shared equipment through Star Shadows Remote Observatory through PROMPT/ CTIO/Chile 16" RCOS 16803 chip
Shared equipment through San Diego Astronomy Society 14" RC with 16803 chip on a paramount
Software (for my stuff) PemPRO, SGP, PHD, Focus Boss, ASCOM, and Pixinsight on the other end.
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