DSS and StarTools???

[Larry 1969]

Hello again all!

The learning curve continues but I'm not giving up!
First of all I must say, with my less than ideal equipment and complete cluelessness, This is like working with BOTH of my hands tied behind my back! :veryconfused:
So I managed to shoot approx 150 X 15 sec exposures of M81 and M82 last night. I stacked them in DSS and the output was set to tif. I tried to open that in StarTools and no go.
I decided to read a bit and I found StarTools likes fits files so I made some changes. When I originally stacked them DSS stacked 131 out of 173....... OK......
I changed the output format to fits and I changed from "mosiac" to "intersection" mode. I thought it would help since my mount doesn't behave well and has a bunch of drift?
I re-stacked the images and only 51 stacked??? I dunno???????
Anyway, the resulting image is far less than ideal, but when I saw it, OH MAN!!!!!!
BTW, since I really don't know how to use APT to it's fullest, I'm sitting out there until 1:30 AM getting eaten alive hitting the "shoot" button over and over and over........

Back at it tonight!

Larry

[Juno16]

Hi Larry,

Hang in there! Things will get better. I’m not much further along, but believe me, it gets better. AP is a very challenging, but very rewarding hobby.
Check out this link for dss settings with Startools.

http://forum.startools.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=720

Also, check out the Startools workflow below from af.net member Hondo. His workflow really got me off the ground. Thanks Hondo!

Part 1

Open your picture in ST

Select Linear, was Bayered, is not Whitebalanced (DSLR)
Linear, was not Bayered or is Whitebalanced (CCD)

Use AutoDev to see the stacking artifacts

Cancel AutoDev

Crop, ensure you remove all the stacking artifacts!

Wipe – temp autodev, leave the aggressiveness at 75%, dark anomaly filter, I use 5 pixels
You may have to play with the aggressiveness setting if it does not look good. If you cannot get anything acceptable try using the vignetting tool as it is the more aggressive tool
Once you are happy-keep

Develop–Set the dark anomaly filter to what you set in the wipe module. Adjust the Digital Development slider to around 75% and then use the Home In button until you are happy-keep

Decon- Can be tricky, use the automask feature and adjust Radius, I find 2.3 works for me.

Part 2


Sharp-Use the mask that you created in Decon. Structure Size-Large, Small Detail Bias-I use 90%
Amount-depends on your image default is good but you may increase to 300% if your image can handle it. If you have a lot of noise, reducing Scale 1 can help.

HDR-A lot going on with this one so you will have to experiment to find what works best for you. The Reveal DSO Core works nicely on galaxies and globs.

Contrast-I find this one hit or miss depending on what you have imaged.

Colour-If everything has worked right so far, you will have very little to do in the Colour Module, just accept the defaults. If the defaults do not work then you will have to experiment.

Life- Great for bringing objects out of the noise. When I use it I go with the isolate function and a full mask. Increase the Saturation to 125% and drop the strength to 50% so you do not lose the faint stuff in your image.

Tracking-Turn off and do final Noise Reduction. I go with the default settings.

If you follow this basic order you should be able to produce a reasonably nice image. Of course all this depends on the quality of your data. Most of the time, the default settings in ST will get you decent results but do not be afraid to play with the settings.

Good luck and hang in there!

Thanks,
Jim

[Gordon]

Larry,

You can put the stacked unprocessed image in Dropbox and post the link. Many of us use StarTools and can give your data a shot. We can then share the steps we used so you can duplicate and see how it works.

[Larry 1969]

Thanks!
You guys rock!
I just got in from imaging M51.
I have enough new data over the past two nights to keep me busy for a while.
I managed M81-82, M106 and M51.
I will fool around with it and report back.
Thanks again!

Larry

[Larry 1969]

OK Juno16. Thanks for the link to DSS settings!
I think it best to get that squared away before delving into StarTools.
A few more questions though, If I may.

1. Under the "Result" tab I have 3 modes to choose from. I selected "Intersection Mode" because I'm using a Dobsonian and I get a lot of drift. Good idea or no?
2. Also under "Result" I have checked "Enable 2X Drizzle"..... Not sure what that means but it sounds cool.....
3. Again under "Result" I have checked "Align RGB Channels in final image", Reduce worker threads priority and Use all available processors.
4. Under "Light" I just changed it from "Median" to "Kappa-Sigma clipping" as suggested in the link above.
5. Under "Dark" I have "Median" checked and "Hot Pixels detection and removal" checked.
I don't use flats or biases.
6. Under "Alignment" I have "Automatic" checked.
7. Under "Intermediate Files" I have "FITS files" checked.
8. Under "Cosmetic" I have everything deselected.
9. Under "Output" I have "Create output file", "Autosave .tif/fits", "Append a number to avoid overwrite" and "Create output file in (My selected destination)" all checked.

The fits file I generated previously was ENORMOUS! 825 Mb! It would lock up my modest laptop. The 1st thing I had to do in StarTools was Bin it 35%. Then it became manageable.

I am completely prepared to re-stack my images and give them another go but I'd like to get the best workable result I can.

Thanks again!

Larry

[Larry 1969]

Larry,

You can put the stacked unprocessed image in Dropbox and post the link. Many of us use StarTools and can give your data a shot. We can then share the steps we used so you can duplicate and see how it works.

Thanks Gordon!
I created a drop box account (free version) and it looks like I can only upload 1 image.
I uploaded my very limited data on M51. Not sure what to do with it from here......
Thanks

Larry

[Gordon]

Thanks Gordon!
I created a drop box account (free version) and it looks like I can only upload 1 image.
I uploaded my very limited data on M51. Not sure what to do with it from here......
Thanks

Larry

You will need to furnish a link to the drop box file.

[Juno16]

Hi Larry,

I wish that I could answer your questions about dss. I really only know the recommended Startools settings.

I hope to learn more about dss in time, but at my very early stage of AP, I am happy with my results so far using the recommended settings. I understand that your setup might benefit from different settings in dss. Hopefully, someone here might have some suggestions.

I can tell you that I have never had such a large file produced by dss. My fits files are almost always around 150 mb.

Good luck and I am looking forward to Gordon’ s Startools reprocess.

Thanks,
Jim

[Larry 1969]

I can tell you that I have never had such a large file produced by dss. My fits files are almost always around 150 mb.

That's what I don't get. These files are gigantic! Dropbox would only let me upload 1 file!

Larry

[Larry 1969]

You will need to furnish a link to the drop box file.

Let me know if this link works.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8htn2r2bzmydox4/M51.fts?dl=0

Also please let me know if there is a way to reduce this file size.

Thanks Gordon!

Larry

[Juno16]

Hi Larry,

Yes, your file is enormous!

Let’s see what Gordon comes back with.

I’ll bet Startools chokes on a file that big. At least it would on my 10 year old desktop!

You could always save your settings in DSS and try stacking with the Startools recommendations for DSS just to see what you get.

Looking forward to how things go and what Gordon comes up with.

Thanks,
Jim

[bobharmony]

Larry

The DSS setting I use for StarTools basically turn off all the color processing options. Look on the left-hand side of DSS. Near the bottom you will see "RAW/FITS DDP settings...". Click that - on the RAW tab uncheck "Set the Black Point to 0" and both "White Balance" options. Click 'Apply' to make it official. In the Stacking settings, Light panel, click on the text that describes background calibration, and select the "No background calibration" option. Make sure the two buttons for "Drizzle" option (2x and 3x) are unchecked as well.

That should set you up well for StarTools, and may reduce the size of the autosave.fit file DSS produces. BTW, StarTools will not accept a compressed .tif file. That may be why you can't load a .tif file from DSS into StarTools. I haven't checked if DSS compresses the .tif file output, I just changed to fits format when I started using StarTools.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Juno16]

Larry

The DSS setting I use for StarTools basically turn off all the color processing options. Look on the left-hand side of DSS. Near the bottom you will see "RAW/FITS DDP settings...". Click that - on the RAW tab uncheck "Set the Black Point to 0" and both "White Balance" options. Click 'Apply' to make it official.

Bob

Interesting Bob!

I just looked at my dss settings and I did have “Set Black Point To 0” checked. Looking forward to giving that s try if I ever see stars!

Thanks,
Jim

[bobharmony]

Interesting Bob!

I just looked at my dss settings and I did have “Set Black Point To 0” checked. Looking forward to giving that s try if I ever see stars!

Thanks,
Jim

LOL - I hear you about getting new data to work with, Jim. No sessions here since April. Of course, these down times do give us the chance to go back and revisit old data to see what else can be squeezed out of it

Bob

[Gordon]

That's what I don't get. These files are gigantic! Dropbox would only let me upload 1 file!

Larry

I would suggest NOT using drizzle at this point. It is doubling the size of your images. Once you get things dialed in you can play with it.

[Gordon]

There is M51 in the image!!!

I won't go into the details because it was a lot of back and forth to draw it out of the noise in the image. However it can be done!

First step is to get the file size down to something manageable. I resized it using photoshop to 2000 px on the long side. This made it much easier to process and in reality it can be resized up if need be. Again at this point I would suggest NOT using drizzle in DSS.

I'm not sure what settings you are using the DSLR but the noise is considerable.

Here's a good article from Jerry Lodriguss about how to set up your camera.

http://www.astropix.com/html/i_astrop/settings.html

Beyond that there isn't much else you can do about noise with a dslr.

DSS. It's best to use JUST the recommended settings until you get used to how it works. Here's an article about how to use DSS for a DSLR

https://astrobackyard.com/deep-sky-stacker-settings/

Once you are comfortable with that we can play with data that should produce some great results.

In the mean time here's what I could do with the data in dropbox.

After resizing I used AutoDev to see what we had. I spent considerable time using wipe to get as much of the data cleaned up as I could. Then just played with contrast and HDR. After that i used 'Repair' to get the stars nice and round. I then stopped "Tracking" and dialed in the noise reduction to remove as much of the background noise as i could. After that I played with the colors some and saved the final.
Typically I would post a Log from ST but I really REALLY had to work this image to get much of anything.

You are always welcome to post data to let members play. Other's may have better results but now you can at least see what can be done.

[Larry 1969]

Hi Larry,

Yes, your file is enormous!

Let’s see what Gordon comes back with.

I’ll bet Startools chokes on a file that big. At least it would on my 10 year old desktop!

You could always save your settings in DSS and try stacking with the Startools recommendations for DSS just to see what you get.

Looking forward to how things go and what Gordon comes up with.

Thanks,
Jim

Let me put it this way. I opened the image in StarTools and, after a long pause, I got a notification that said something about running out of memory and then the entire program closed!
I think my main goal at this point is to get the settings in DSS to produce a reasonable fits file size. I captured M81 and M82 in the same frame. M106 and M51 over the weekend and can't process any of it!!!!!!
Sooooooo bummed......
On the bright side, I have all the data and, of course, the rain is coming.....

Larry

[Gordon]

Do you have Photoshop or GIMP or any other software that will let you reduce the size of the image?

[Larry 1969]

Gordon,

I'm sorry you spent so much time with such little data. I can't believe what you pulled out of it!
I tried to upload 3 images but the files were so big it would only let me upload 1. Unfortunately, it's the image with the least data.......
I shot M81 and M82 Friday night and managed to stack 103 images (the Gods were on my side) and I can see the spiral arms of M81 but can't seem to bring them out.
I will re-stack this image to get it to a managable file size and upload it to dropbob. I will also check out the links to DSLR camera settings (thanks)!
I really appreciate you helping me through this! I am working with FAR less than ideal equipment but I enjoy the challenge!
Bright nebulea pose less of a problem but these galaxies..........

Thanks again!

Larry

[Larry 1969]

Do you have Photoshop or GIMP or any other software that will let you reduce the size of the image?

I do have GIMP.