Absolutely Horrible Images!

[Larry 1969]

Good day all!
I'm not even sure where to begin with this...
I had a pretty bad session on The Deer Lick Group several weeks ago, then my next time out I managed a nice session on The West Veil.
Then the next few were very poor and all of the poor sessions had similar results. Super grainy with colors all over the place...
I've tried new calibration frames and even no calibration frames and the results are horrible...

I'm trying to rule out a faulty camera but my viewing conditions haven't been too great either so I was wondering what the effect of smoke
in the upper atmosphere could have on my images. California is plagued with wild fires right now and, even though I'm 3,000 miles away,
I can see the effect during the day. I try not to image if it looks really bad but sometimes it's hard to tell...

This is a stacked image of M33. No calibration frames and run through StarTools with my usual workflow right after the "wipe" module.

Here is the same image with calibration frames and exact same processing.

I appears that my calibration frames help but something is horribly wrong!!!

Any ideas? Thanks!

Larry

[Lady Fraktor]

You have managed to get a lot of detail in there regardless.
If it helps, no matter how bad you think it is you can always tell yourself that it is better than anything I have ever taken

[Larry 1969]

You have managed to get a lot of detail in there regardless.
If it helps, no matter how bad you think it is you can always tell yourself that it is better than anything I have ever taken

[bobharmony]

Larry, if you're still using 1.4 version of StarTools, it's time to upgrade. All my wipes used to look like that, just more orange, one of the joys of shooting in a high-LP area. With version 1.6 and the ROI feature of Autodev, everything changes for the better.

Bob

[Larry 1969]

Thanks Bob!
Already using 1.6 and auto-dev with ROI...

Larry

[Lowjiber]

Pretty good... considering the smoke. I just checked the smoke coverage from five minutes ago and you're in deep doodo.

Thanks for the share.

Clear Skies & Stay Safe

[Larry 1969]

Pretty good... considering the smoke. I just checked the smoke coverage from five minutes ago and you're in deep doodo.

Thanks for the share.

Clear Skies & Stay Safe

Thanks!
Are you using astrospheric.com?
Their "smoke" layer is labeled "experimental" and it's just a forecast... Not sure how accurate it is but it looked good on the night in question...

Larry

[bobharmony]

Interesting - sorry I haven't had any useful suggestions here. FWIW my flow usually starts with AutoDev taking all defaults, Crop to remove any stacking artifacts and clean up the edges after dithering all night, Wipe, and then AutoDev with ROI specified.

Two questions, what are you using for stacking, and what option do you choose for the image when you first open it in StarTools? We'll get to the bottom of this one way or another

Bob

[Lowjiber]

Are you using astrospheric.com?
Their "smoke" layer is labeled "experimental" and it's just a forecast... Not sure how accurate it is but it looked good on the night in question...

Larry, I'm using this: https://fire.airnow.gov

Living in Vegas, I'm not far from the many fires in California and have found it to be pretty accurate and up to date. If one "allows" the app to geo-locate their position, it will center the data around the location. I can then just zoom-out to see the rest of the country... Even Europe.

Clear Skies & Stay Save

[Larry 1969]

Interesting - sorry I haven't had any useful suggestions here. FWIW my flow usually starts with AutoDev taking all defaults, Crop to remove any stacking artifacts and clean up the edges after dithering all night, Wipe, and then AutoDev with ROI specified.

Two questions, what are you using for stacking, and what option do you choose for the image when you first open it in StarTools? We'll get to the bottom of this one way or another

Bob

Thanks Bob!
I'm using pretty much the same workflow as you except I bin 50% after the first AutoDev. I load the image with the center option "something about Linear from OSC" and I use DSS for stacking. I don't believe it's a processing issue but rather a poor data issue...

Larry

[bobharmony]

Thanks Bob!
I'm using pretty much the same workflow as you except I bin 50% after the first AutoDev. I load the image with the center option "something about Linear from OSC" and I use DSS for stacking. I don't believe it's a processing issue but rather a poor data issue...

Larry

That is the same option I use in StarTools. It assumes there was no manipulation of the white balance in the stacking software. In DSS that means none of the calibration is turned on in the stacking settings and the box that specifies "no white balance" (or words to that effect) is checked in the RAW settings.

If you continue with processing from the Wipe, what does your final image look like? At the point of the Wipe I find the color to be quite off, usually with a lot of green. The next steps in my process work on the luminance data, and when I get to Color things usually work themselves out.

Worst case if Color module doesn't clear things up, you may want to select the "Linear" option when opening the file and see if that makes a difference.

Bob

[Larry 1969]

That is the same option I use in StarTools. It assumes there was no manipulation of the white balance in the stacking software. In DSS that means none of the calibration is turned on in the stacking settings and the box that specifies "no white balance" (or words to that effect) is checked in the RAW settings.

If you continue with processing from the Wipe, what does your final image look like? At the point of the Wipe I find the color to be quite off, usually with a lot of green. The next steps in my process work on the luminance data, and when I get to Color things usually work themselves out.

Worst case if Color module doesn't clear things up, you may want to select the "Linear" option when opening the file and see if that makes a difference.

Bob

By the time I get to the "color" module things are usually pretty good. All I normally do there is hit "Legacy" and no changes are needed.
This is just terrible and it's not just one screwy session... There have been several but not consecutive... One nice session followed by two bad ones then two good ones... Really hoping it's an atmospheric condition and not equipment related...

I'll finish it out and post the result. It was so poor I deleted it...

Thanks again Bob!

Larry

[Larry 1969]

Here's a roughly processed image converted to jpg...

[bobharmony]

Larry, did you use the slider to remove green in the Color module? Knocking down the green and doing a more concerted job on the process might net some good results. You got some of the finer detail of M33 showing already.

If you are interested, maybe you could submit your stacked image to the AP Challenge to see what people can do with it. I think there may be more here than you expect.

Bob

[Larry 1969]

Honestly, I didn't spend much time on it.
I may be able to work out a better image but why would, all of a sudden, I have to change my entire workflow?
Between the clouds and smoke, this is frustrating...

Larry

[bobharmony]

Frustrating? Welcome to the wonderful world of AP

One hard lesson I've learned over several years of doing this is that every image needs a little tweak to get the most out of it. Yes we try to start with a basic workflow and that gets us most of the way there. But each night is a little different in seeing, transparency, how well tracking works, etc., and requires a personal touch.

In this case shooting through smoke is another variable to deal with, one that may require a bit of special handling. I dealt with the really smoky nights here by staying in, but that just adds another level of frustration, missing out on a Moonless night with no clouds.

In any case, I'm guessing therre is more buried in your data than is apparent so far. One of my favorite things is to wring as much as I can out of any nights data (some would say I go too far with this).

I'd suggest starting with your normal flow with the calibrated data. Once you get past the ugly wipe phase, hit it with some HDR, then a touch of deconvolution and maybe some sharpening while you've got the inverse star mask loaded. Then take it to the Color module and see what's there. Run through Life, then denoise. My guess is you will be pleasantly surprised.

If it was easy to do AP even Lady Fractor would jump on the bandwagon (see what I mean by me going too far). Give it a go, Larry, it'll be a learning experience for all of us.

Bob

[Larry 1969]

Funny thing is what you described is pretty much my usual workflow...
I use decon before HDR then sharpen then contrast then color then life and finally denoise...
My (very limited) processing experience tells me there is no good way to clean up poor data but I don't suppose it could hurt to try...

Thanks again!

Larry

[STEVE333]

Hi Larry - Did you ever find the cause of your "horrible" images?

I hope so.

Steve

[Larry 1969]

Hi Steve.
I did not... I'm really hoping it was the smoke from the fires.
I haven't had a clear night since. It's looking like Monday night might be my chance.
I've just never had my background turn out completely red before and I don't see how smoke would cause that...

Larry

[STEVE333]

Hi Steve.
I did not... I'm really hoping it was the smoke from the fires.
I haven't had a clear night since. It's looking like Monday night might be my chance.
I've just never had my background turn out completely red before and I don't see how smoke would cause that...

Larry

I hope it was just the smoke for whatever reason. It is so alarming when something "new" happens to our images after everything has been working fine. Is it the smoke? Is it the camera? Is is my processing? Is it going to cost a lot of $$$ to fix? Is it .........?

Here's hoping your next image turns out fine.

Cheers - Steve