New Obsy Design Help

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JayTee United States of America
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New Obsy Design Help

#1

Post by JayTee »


First off, Happy New Year or See ya 2020!

I'm in the process of designing my Obsy for my new house. Here's what I know:
I don't want a roll OFF roof design, my wife thinks they're ugly.
I don't want a dome either because this building is visible by several neighbors and I don't want a zoning fight.
This will be a stand-alone building roughly 10'X10. The roof will be pitched anywhere from 30° to 45° and the low wall will be 4' high.

What I'm really wondering is why hasn't anyone tried to use the metal roll-up garage doors as the roof of the obsy. Each half of the roof is one roll-up garage door. Each door will roll down to the low wall of the Obsy. I can even motorize them if I have to for convenience/weight/function. I have looked all over the internet for such a building and can't find one. I'm coming up with a CAD design to help visualize what I'm asking.

Here's some pics of what I want to use as the roof.

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RUR Obsy Roof2.jpg
Please critique and/or brainstorm with me as to why these doors can or cannot be used for a Roll UP roof Obsy, to even include design considerations if you're in the mood. I already have an idea on how to make where they join at the top weatherproof.

Cheers,
JT
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AntennaGuy United States of America
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#2

Post by AntennaGuy »


Interesting idea. Some questions:
1. When closed, are these doors waterproof to water coming in a direction straight against them?
2. In normal vertical operation, the door gets pulled up and lowered down, the latter with the assistance of its own weight (right?). So if it is not vertical, will it go down (i.e., close) properly?
3. In normal vertical operation, the door "hangs" from the top. In your case, its weight will have to be supported by the tracks. This will be equivalent to it being under an external pressure.

I'm guessing that a sufficiently skilled/experienced roll-up door installer can help you ensure that the door both opens and closes properly and can be properly supported. But... maybe not.

Added: I just saw this: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/4935 ... of-design/
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JayTee United States of America
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#3

Post by JayTee »


1. When closed, are these doors waterproof to water coming in a direction straight against them?
Excellent question. My plan is to fashion a long open "U" shaped piece of metal that goes on the "master" door at the crest end such that when the subordinate door is in place it nestles under the open "U" shaped weather protector.

2. In normal vertical operation, the door gets pulled up and lowered down, the latter with the assistance of its own weight (right?). So if it is not vertical, will it go down (i.e., close) properly?
Another excellent question. Part of the research into this concept will be, are these door mechanisms spring-assisted in either the opening or closing function and can that spring tension be adjusted to accommodate the use I have envisioned.

3. In normal vertical operation, the door "hangs" from the top. In your case, its weight will have to be supported by the tracks. This will be equivalent to it being under an external pressure.
Wow, you're 3 for 3. This will come down to the model door I choose. I imagine that the structural strength of the metal panels will determine how wide a door I can use and subsequently how wide the Obsy can be. It will probably determine roof pitch also.

Great questions. Thanks for responding.

Cheers,
JT
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#4

Post by Graeme1858 »


The roller shutter door on my garage is motor driven. Since the motor can take the weight of it to raise the door to open it would probably have the power to push it shut on an incline too. It is controlled wirelessly from a control unit. There is a magnetic switch in the bottom slat which passes magnets to operate so the control unit knows where it is. There is a sensor in the bottom for safety and so it knows when to stop on closing.

It sounds like a plan to me except for the loss of horizon view on the high end.

Regards

Graeme
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#5

Post by KathyNS »


Is the door a single piece of metal, or is the door composed of interlocking slats? If it formed of slats, the interlock will be designed to shed water in one direction (down). If I understand your plan, the door will be inverted, the interlock will not shed water as designed and might even trap it. If the door is a single flexible sheet of metal, this is not a factor.

Will the side tracks for the door shed water when in a shallow slope? They are designed only to shed water when vertical.

You have mentioned investigating the possible span that the door can self-support. I would be dubious about it being able to support itself well. (i.e. It might work for a while but fail in long-term use.) I was going to mention snow loads, but I guess you don't get much snow in Hawaii!

Does the door run on rollers in its tracks or does the door material just slide? Sliding is viable for a vertical door, but might produce too much friction for a horizontal mounting.

The roller will contain a ginormous spring to support the weight of the door in the open position. If you invert the door so it rolls down, the spring will be assisting gravity, not combating it. The door will slam open with vigour, but will be a S.O.B to close.

Bottom line: I don't think this is a viable plan.

I have seen working observatories with hinged roof panels. Closed, they look like a regular gable-roof shed. Each half of the roof hinges off, either with a piano hinge at the eave, or using a parallellogram system at each end. In either case, good counterweighting is essential.
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#6

Post by sdbodin »


JayTee wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:43 am First off, Happy New Year or See ya 2020!

I'm in the process of designing my Obsy for my new house. Here's what I know:
I don't want a roll OFF roof design, my wife thinks they're ugly.
I don't want a dome either because this building is visible by several neighbors and I don't want a zoning fight.
This will be a stand-alone building roughly 10'X10. The roof will be pitched anywhere from 30° to 45° and the low wall will be 4' high.

Cheers,
JT
Thanks for the new year greeting and I hope your upcoming move is uneventful.

Just a few personal observations on roll-offs. Wives need to be convinced that a roll-off shed is just like any other garden shed, which it is, except for the roll-off scaffolding. But, after ten years with mine, the scaffolding is almost a non-item, just disappears into the landscape, mostly air anyway. No zoning problems, just another shed.

I built mine with 7 foot walls, not on purpose, but because it was easier, glad I did, really good wind block and can image up 20mph winds, which are common in my location. So, you might want to consider your new location conditions.

Roof pitch can be anything with a roll-off, so a non-problem, just one of aesthetics.

The rolling garage doors sound like a neat idea on first take, but might be a real expensive headache in the long run for reasons mention by others and the great unknown.

Good luck on any plan you decide, an observatory of any kind is very convenient in the long run,
Steve
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#7

Post by SkyHiker »


If the above-ground roll-off poles and tracks are the ugliness problem, can't you put the tracks on the ground and have the support poles roll on them? The rear ones can be supported by rollers along the top of the walls on the side. Should be feasible, I think.
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#8

Post by Micke187 »


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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#9

Post by Graeme1858 »


JT

What Kathy said. The slats of a roller shutter door are designed to support themselves/each other vertically. If they were mounted off vertical they would loose their intrinsic strength. I would say you need to check that the slats have the strength to operate on an incline or you need a plan B.

Regards

Graeme
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#10

Post by JayTee »


To all who have responded thank you so much. ALL of your points are well taken.

Kathy: My next action is to get with the door manufacturer and see just what the capabilities are. Will they need to (and can they) make adaptations to an existing design. Maybe they can assemble the panels in reverse order so the weatherproof feature works for the configuration I have in mind. Also, I'm moving to Northern Idaho so snow load will be a BIG factor.

Graeme: My north wall is the stationary high wall. I'm designing it so the south wall apex folds down to reveal more sky.

Steve: I hear what you are saying and I will save the ROR as plan C.

Henk: Putting the roof on 4 posts that move along a track is a very interesting and investigatable option.

Mikael: Thanks for that link. That is a very interesting design but most likely beyond my abilities and pocketbook!

Well, so far I have a plan A (the retracting garage doors) and a plan C (a normal ROR). I will search the county ordinances to see if a dome (plan B) will cause further legal headaches.

Thank you all again. Don't stop here. If you have more ideas on this roll OFF roof design please share them.

Cheers and Happy New Year,
JT
∞ Primary Scopes: #1: Celestron CPC1100 #2: 8" f/7.5 Dob #3: CR150HD f/8 6" frac
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#11

Post by SkyHiker »


JayTee wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:16 am Henk: Putting the roof on 4 posts that move along a track is a very interesting and investigatable option.
Actually the rear can be on regular tracks, only the front posts need to be on the ground tracks. With some minor reinforcement at the bottom I think it would stable enough with not too much trouble. Well for lateral stability you would have to brace the rear part of the roof with some locks after you moved it to the front. It's doable.
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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#12

Post by sdbodin »


JayTee wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:16 am
Well, so far I have a plan A (the retracting garage doors) and a plan C (a normal ROR). I will search the county ordinances to see if a dome (plan B) will cause further legal headaches.


JT
Yup, county building codes can be a show stopper. But my county in rural eastern Wash has no restriction on 120 sq-ft and less, don't even need a permit. Maybe rural northern Idaho is similar. Hard to explain to an inspector why the roof is not attached to the structure. Probably a left-over from out-house days, don't write them a letter and tell them!

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Re: New Obsy Design Help

#13

Post by pakarinen »


I've read some threads where people have used extruded polystyrene panels (blue, pink, green) as the core of wall panels, like these commercial ones:

http://wallroofpanels.com/1-8-xps-sandwich-panel/

They're light, cheap, waterproof, and pretty sturdy if you DIY. I'm pretty sure somebody was using them for roof panels in their obsy as well. I think they're also used as the box structure for Motel-O-Scopes. You'd probably want to use wood veneer instead of sheet steel for cladding.

Might be worth a look, depending on your design criteria.
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