Need Arduino / electrical help

Discuss your home observatory!
User avatar
KathyNS Canada
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2584
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:47 am
4
Location: Nova Scotia
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#21

Post by KathyNS »


(Been busy with other stuff the last couple of days.)

I tried unplugging the camera's USB connection. No change: the Arduino still goes silent. I tried unplugging the USB cable from all the USB devices that are powered through the relay (camera, filter wheel, focuser). Still no change. So it doesn't appear to be a ground loop through the device USB connections.

My next test will be to modify the control box so that the ground for that power circuit is separate from the other grounds.

The Arduino's USB connection to the computer is through a 5m active extension cable, with a powered hub, into which the Arduino is plugged. I'll try changing the cable from the hub to the Arduino. I might have to order a new 5m cable and a new hub, since I don't have spares of those.
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
User avatar
SkyHiker United States of America
Local Group Ambassador
Articles: 0
Online
Posts: 2293
Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 8:40 pm
4
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Status:
Online

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#22

Post by SkyHiker »


To make the debugging easier, can you simply hook the Arduino and your camera straight into the laptop with no relay board hooked up, or powered off, and see if the same thing happens? Just to reduce the possibility of the various other powered devices interfering. If it still fails, could it be the driver of the camera? Have you tried assigning a different COM port to the Arduino? You can do that using the device manager and driver interface IIRC.
... Henk. :D Telescopes: GSO 12" Astrograph, "Comet Hunter" MN152, ES ED127CF, ES ED80, WO Redcat51, Z12, AT6RC, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S with OnStep, AVX, Tiltall, Cameras: ASI2600MC, ASI2600MM, ASI120 mini, Fuji X-a1, Canon XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: OnStep controller, Pi4b/power rig, Afocal adapter, Foldable Dob base, Az/Alt Dob setting circles, Accessories: ZWO 36 mm filter wheel, TV Paracorr 2, Baader MPCC Mk III, ES FF, SSAG, QHY OAG-M, EAF electronic focuser, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, Laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: KStars-Ekos, DSS, PHD2, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK, Computers:Pi4b, 2x running KStars/Ekos, Toshiba Satellite 17", Website:Henk's astro images
User avatar
KathyNS Canada
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2584
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:47 am
4
Location: Nova Scotia
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#23

Post by KathyNS »


SkyHiker wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:33 am To make the debugging easier, can you simply hook the Arduino and your camera straight into the laptop with no relay board hooked up, or powered off, and see if the same thing happens? Just to reduce the possibility of the various other powered devices interfering. If it still fails, could it be the driver of the camera? Have you tried assigning a different COM port to the Arduino? You can do that using the device manager and driver interface IIRC.
I did establish that the problem us unrelated to the camera's USB. With the camera's USB unplugged (so no driver involved), the Arduino still went silent when power was turned on.

Changing the COM port seems like a last-resort test. Since the COM ports are just software, a problem there would mean that the COM driver is messed up, in which case a different port number is unlikely to make a difference.

My next step will be to isolate the ground. And possibly add capacitors to the power line and the relay coil.
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
User avatar
turboscrew
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 am
3
Location: Nokia, Finland
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#24

Post by turboscrew »


KathyNS wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:05 pm
SkyHiker wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:33 am To make the debugging easier, can you simply hook the Arduino and your camera straight into the laptop with no relay board hooked up, or powered off, and see if the same thing happens? Just to reduce the possibility of the various other powered devices interfering. If it still fails, could it be the driver of the camera? Have you tried assigning a different COM port to the Arduino? You can do that using the device manager and driver interface IIRC.
I did establish that the problem us unrelated to the camera's USB. With the camera's USB unplugged (so no driver involved), the Arduino still went silent when power was turned on.

Changing the COM port seems like a last-resort test. Since the COM ports are just software, a problem there would mean that the COM driver is messed up, in which case a different port number is unlikely to make a difference.

My next step will be to isolate the ground. And possibly add capacitors to the power line and the relay coil.
Very strange. The camera power somehow manages to mess up Arduino's sending and the HUB (so that it doesn't let go), but sending to Arduino works, and Arduino even executes the commands...
It would be interesting to see the powering scheme...
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Image
User avatar
turboscrew
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 am
3
Location: Nokia, Finland
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#25

Post by turboscrew »


Hmm, it just might be the relay shield...
https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=659618.0
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Image
User avatar
turboscrew
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 am
3
Location: Nokia, Finland
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#26

Post by turboscrew »


The problem actually looks surprisingly common with Arduino and some relay shields, and it seems like some relay shields don't work too well. It looks like the common problem is that when there is current through the relays, the relay contacts cause quite strong interference - sometimes even (tiny) sparks. I guess the power through the relays need to be filtered.
In that case by-passing the relays should remove the problem (a test).

I'm not really electronics guy, but I wonder if a capacitor across the relay contacts (or capacitors from contacts to ground) fixes the problem. Any idea how much the camera needs current?
- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Image
User avatar
turboscrew
Inter-Galactic Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 3233
Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:22 am
3
Location: Nokia, Finland
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#27

Post by turboscrew »


- Juha

Senior Embedded SW Designer
Telescope: OrionOptics XV12, Mount: CEM120, Tri-pier 360 and alternative dobson mount.
Grab 'n go: Omegon AC 102/660 on AZ-3 mount
Eyepieces: 26 mm Omegon SWAN 70°, 15 mm TV Plössl, 12.5 mm Baader Morpheus, 10 mm TV Delos, 6 mm Baader Classic Ortho, 5 mm TV DeLite, 4 mm and 3 mm TV Radians
Cameras: ZWO ASI 294MM Pro, Omegon veLOX 178C
OAG: TS-Optics TSOAG09, ZWO EFW 7 x 36 mm, ZWO filter sets: LRGB and Ha/OIII/SII
Explore Scientific HR 2" coma corrector, Meade x3 1.25" Barlow, TV PowerMate 4x 2"
Some filters (#80A, ND-96, ND-09, Astronomik UHC)
Laptop: Acer Enduro Urban N3 semi-rugged, Windows 11
LAT 61° 28' 10.9" N, Bortle 5

I don't suffer from insanity. I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Image
User avatar
ARock
Saturn Ambassador
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 4:06 am
4
Location: USA
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#28

Post by ARock »


If the relay shield is of a "hat" kind on top of the arduino check if the bottom of the shield touches the USB port.

Look at the video around time 1:15
AR
Scopes: Zhumell Z8, Meade Adventure 80mm, Bushnell 1300x100 Goto Mak.
Mount: ES EXOS Nano EQ Mount, DIY Arduino+Stepper drives.
AP: 50mm guidescope, AR0130 based guidecam, Canon T3i, UHC filter.
EPs: ES82 18,11,6.7mm, Zhumell 30,9mm FJ Ortho 9mm, assorted plossls, Meade 2x S-F Barlow, DGM NPB filter.
Binos: Celestron Skymaster 15x70 (Albott tripod/monopod), Nikon Naturalist 7x35.
User avatar
KathyNS Canada
Co-Administrator
Co-Administrator
Articles: 0
Offline
Posts: 2584
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:47 am
4
Location: Nova Scotia
Status:
Offline

TSS Awards Badges

TSS Photo of the Day

Re: Need Arduino / electrical help

#29

Post by KathyNS »


That looks like the exact relay shield that I have. It does warn that the Arduino's USB port should be insulated with electrical tape. I did have an issue with the contacts of relay #4 wearing through the tape and causing issues. Since then, I have re-insulated the USB port with a layer of rigid plastic sandwiched between two layers of electrical tape, and I have reallocated the relays (I only need three) so that relay #4 is not used and not connected.

I completed reconfiguring the grounds so that the ground for the pier power does not contact the Arduino ground. It is looking like the problem is fixed. I have been able to cycle the power to the camera several times, both from my own app and from the Arduino IDE's Serial Monitor, and it responded successfully.

It looks like [mention]SkyHiker[/mention] gets the prize for suggesting the cause and the solution.
Image
DSO AP: Orion 200mm f/4 Newtonian Astrograph; ATIK 383L+; EFW2 filter wheel; Astrodon Ha,Oiii,LRGB filters; KWIQ/QHY5 guide scope; Planetary AP: Celestron C-11; ZWO ASI120MC; Portable: Celestron C-8 on HEQ5 pro; C-90 on wedge; 20x80 binos; Etc: Canon 350D; Various EPs, etc. Obs: 8' Exploradome; iOptron CEM60 (pier); Helena Observatory (H2O) Astrobin
Post Reply

Create an account or sign in to join the discussion

You need to be a member in order to post a reply

Create an account

Not a member? register to join our community
Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics
It’s free and only takes a minute

Register

Sign in

Return to “Home observatories”