AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

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Jockinireland
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#21

Post by Jockinireland »

Larry 1969 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:58 am Thanks for the nice data! First of all, your stars look great! Guiding must be really good!
I downloaded the raw data and used DSS to "blink" through it and it doesn't appear you're dithering... I hardly see any image shift between images...
Maybe it's just me, but if you're not dithering, you probably should... I also noticed 5 satellites but Kappa Sigma clipping should handle them.
I'm going to load these into APP and let the stacking process run overnight...

See you all tomorrow!

Larry
Hi Larry,

I always dither, but there have been a couple of times when dithering failed for some reason. So I pulled that raw data into PI and blinked it and the dithering is very evident so it seems strange that you could not see it in DSS.

I set up my dither to be around 12 imaging pixels maximum. I will sometimes change the frequency of dither depending on the length of subs, how many images I intend to take etc. On this one I was dithering every third frame - and that can be seen in blink.

I look forward to seeing your stack (mine was also in APP but it will be interesting to see if there is any difference because of different settings) and your final image.

take care

David.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
Meade series 4000 f0.63 FF/FR
Camera: ASI2600MC pro. Canon EOS 1100D ( Ha modded), Canon EOS700D astro mod
Secondary mount: Skywatcher StarAdventurer
Various eyepieces
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#22

Post by Larry 1969 »

Jockinireland wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:38 am
I always dither, but there have been a couple of times when dithering failed for some reason. So I pulled that raw data into PI and blinked it and the dithering is very evident so it seems strange that you could not see it in DSS.

I set up my dither to be around 12 imaging pixels maximum. I will sometimes change the frequency of dither depending on the length of subs, how many images I intend to take etc. On this one I was dithering every third frame - and that can be seen in blink.

I look forward to seeing your stack (mine was also in APP but it will be interesting to see if there is any difference because of different settings) and your final image.

take care

David.
Well David, I ran it through and APP didn't like something about your flats so it apparently didn't apply them... :think:
I think it was because I didn't apply the bias frames but the result was what you would expect without flats... Vignetting and a couple of dust spots...
I'm in the process of integrating the bias frames right now.

Larry
For visual:
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Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#23

Post by Larry 1969 »

Here's a screenshot of what turned out without bias frames.
Screenshot (39).png
And with bias frames...
Screenshot (38).png
I don't really understand but I'll process the latter...

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
Altair Hypercam 26C
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#24

Post by Jockinireland »

Larry 1969 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:49 am Here's a screenshot of what turned out without bias frames.Image

And with bias frames...Image

I don't really understand but I'll process the latter...

Larry
Thats weird!

This is my original output from APP which you can see looks prtty good.
Capture.JPG
I've not been using bias with this camera - I only gave them here for completeness.

I wonder if that original output was before i started saving masters as 32 bit (I know you do that from earlier discussions) I'm going to run the data I put up on the G-drive through APP again to see if it comes out different with 32bit masters. Then I'm going to run it in WBPP in PI also.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
Meade series 4000 f0.63 FF/FR
Camera: ASI2600MC pro. Canon EOS 1100D ( Ha modded), Canon EOS700D astro mod
Secondary mount: Skywatcher StarAdventurer
Various eyepieces
Vixen 7x42 binocs
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#25

Post by Jockinireland »

Hi @Larry 1969

So I ran the data from the TSS share folder through APP again, ensuring 32b masters, again no Bias, with this result:
w32b.JPG
Its identical to the one I put up as the stack for this challenge. Blinking between the two shows absolutely no difference.

So I am not sure what happened with your APP integration.

My settings were pretty standard;

Algorithm - Adaptive Airy disc
Calibrate - save 32b masters - NO DARK SCALING,
then everything default until integration where I stacked the best 70 and used LNC (1st degree, 1 iteration)

I'm really interested to work out whats happened here.

Rgds

David.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
Meade series 4000 f0.63 FF/FR
Camera: ASI2600MC pro. Canon EOS 1100D ( Ha modded), Canon EOS700D astro mod
Secondary mount: Skywatcher StarAdventurer
Various eyepieces
Vixen 7x42 binocs
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#26

Post by Larry 1969 »

Thanks David!
I'm still pretty new to APP and I'm using the latest beta.
I'll have to have a look at my settings.

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#27

Post by Larry 1969 »

David

Ok... I'm looking at my APP settings right now and have this:
Algorithm - Adaptive Airy Disc
Calibrate - save 32 bit masters - NO DARK SCALING (BUT I deselected "Adaptive pedestal / Reduce Amp Glow") because that was recommended for use with StarTools...
And finally, I had No LNC selected... Everything else was default... I wonder what could have went wrong??? :think:

I also did notice your dithering in the stacked image. It's MUCH smaller than mine. I use APT to manage my sessions and I have it set to dither 1 pixel but my guide cam has huge pixels (7.4 um) so it moves quite a bit...

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
Altair Hypercam 26C
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#28

Post by UkDave »

@Larry 1969 in one of the screen shots you loaded bias and dark flats , it’s said one or the other not both as it can do weird things to the data .
Regards Dave
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#29

Post by Jockinireland »

Larry 1969 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:28 pm David

Ok... I'm looking at my APP settings right now and have this:
Algorithm - Adaptive Airy Disc
Calibrate - save 32 bit masters - NO DARK SCALING (BUT I deselected "Adaptive pedestal / Reduce Amp Glow") because that was recommended for use with StarTools...
And finally, I had No LNC selected... Everything else was default... I wonder what could have went wrong??? :think:

I also did notice your dithering in the stacked image. It's MUCH smaller than mine. I use APT to manage my sessions and I have it set to dither 1 pixel but my guide cam has huge pixels (7.4 um) so it moves quite a bit...

Larry
Hi Larry,

I too keep adaptive pedestal checked and I dont think that that LNC could cause this issue - I really thinks its happening at calibration.

Honestly I'm starting to get beyond my abilities or knowledge on this but heres what I'm thinking. Your screenshot without bias does not look like the flats have not been applied but rather that they have been OVER-applied - i.e. overcompensated. Those areas which needed to be lightened a bit to flatten the field have been lightened way to much so they are now showing the negative of how they started. The one with the bias looks like what I'd expect if no flats were applied.

Some thoughts;

Have you looked at individual images pre and post calibration (by changing the drop down window at top) This may give you some clues.This is what mines look like - this is a heavy stretch to see whats going on.
Whale_uncal.JPG
Whale_cal.JPG

If the individuals look corrected then you know its an integration problem but I dont see how that could be. You can further step through registration and normalization in that dropdown but again I dont think this will be happening at either of those.

Take a look at you masters (particularly the MF) compared to the ones I put in the folder yesterday - that may tell you something.

Do you have the calibration warnings box checked, that will tell you real time if somethings going wrong.

Double check that you have added the darks, flats and dark flats in the right place - I've mixed up calibration types at loading before!

For long enough with my DSLR's I would add darks, flat darks, flats and bias so I dont think the bias is an issue here. But no harm in leaving it out anyway when you have darks and dark-flats.

Good luck.

So, I really cant explain whats happened there. The run I did yesterday was with the files from the shared drive so its not that I've put in the wrong darks or something (which was my immediate concern!)

Id suggest you start from scratch, reload all lights and calibration frames, check all settings (make sure that integration of each calibration type is set to automatic in the calibration tab) and give it another go.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
Meade series 4000 f0.63 FF/FR
Camera: ASI2600MC pro. Canon EOS 1100D ( Ha modded), Canon EOS700D astro mod
Secondary mount: Skywatcher StarAdventurer
Various eyepieces
Vixen 7x42 binocs
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#30

Post by Larry 1969 »

Jockinireland wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:40 am
Id suggest you start from scratch, reload all lights and calibration frames, check all settings (make sure that integration of each calibration type is set to automatic in the calibration tab) and give it another go.
Sorry for the late response. Windows pushed through an update that disabled my Remote Desktop connection to my imaging PC that took days to fix... :x

I'm in the process of re-stacking right now without bias frames. I do have the "Warnings" checked and last run gave me some message about not having bias frames or something but I didn't pay much attention to it. That's why I thought they were necessary but today I didn't get a warning so I may have very well screwed something up...

Just to be clear though, I have "Adaptive Pedestal" UNCHECKED because it was recommended for use with StarTools.
I'll compare the images when it's finished...

Thanks for the data and suggestions!

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
Altair Hypercam 26C
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#31

Post by Larry 1969 »

Well, it looks like I had messed something up.

Here's the background neutralized image from APP:
Screenshot (40).png
Looking forward to giving this a go!

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
Altair Hypercam 26C
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#32

Post by Larry 1969 »

OK...
I tried this a couple of different ways...
I stacked the raw data in APP (correctly this time :oops: ) and was pleased with the result so I saved the file with no background normalization applied and went on to process it in StarTools. I cropped it very minimally because there were a ton of other tiny galaxies in the image that I thought were pretty cool. :cool:
I converted it to jpg in GIMP and made no other changes because I realized I had already clipped it a bit... :whistle:
AP_challenge_redo-RGB-session_1.jpg
I went back into APP and applied background normalization and opened that image in StarTools and gave it another go.
I told StarTools to attempt to reverse the stretch and start tracking because the "Noise Reduction" feature it pretty awesome. :cool:
I processed it as best as I could and managed to blow out the Surfboard a bit but the background may be a tad better?
AP_challenge_redo-RGB-session_1-St.jpg
One thing I've been doing is cropping first and then binning until the longest edge of the image is 2048 pixels. Supposedly Facebook applies some pretty bad compression to images larger than that and I'm happy to take advantage of the 1.95 n SNR improvement.

I'm not particularly happy with either of these but I'm glad to practice my processing a bit!

Thanks again!

Larry
For visual:
10" Skywatcher collapsible goto dob, various EP's and a Celestron StarSense auto align.

For imaging:
Orion 8" astrograph 800mm @ F3.9
Eq6-R Pro controlled by APT via EQmod with an OTA mounted mini PC
Explore Scientific HR coma corrector
Altair Hypercam 26C
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#33

Post by Jockinireland »

Hi @Larry 1969 - I'm glad you got the stacking sorted. My guess would be that you had put some of the darks in the wrong place but at least you have it sorted.

The tiny galaxies are indeed cool - this is a annotation made in Pixinsight. All of the blue circles are individual galaxies. I just love the fact that with our small amateur kit we can image stuff that is so distant and so faint.
Whale_Galaxy_PIXI_Annotated.jpg
take care

David.
Scope: Skywatcher Evostar 80ED (SW 0.85 FR/FF) on a SW NEQ6Pro
Guiding; SW Evoguide 50ED, ASI 120mm mini
Meade 8" LX200 GPS on wedge (Guided with a cheapo 50mm guidescope and a ZWO ASI 120mm mini)
Meade series 4000 f0.63 FF/FR
Camera: ASI2600MC pro. Canon EOS 1100D ( Ha modded), Canon EOS700D astro mod
Secondary mount: Skywatcher StarAdventurer
Various eyepieces
Vixen 7x42 binocs
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Re: AP Processing Challenge 21 - OSC Data

#34

Post by UkDave »

@Larry 1969 when using Startools if you use AutoDev on the second pass after wipe and use Roi over the brightest Galaxy then Startools won’t let you blow out the Galaxy.

Regards Dave
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